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"With the 20th pick, the Philadelphia Flyers selects..."

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Old
06-19-2012, 01:10 PM
  #226
46zone
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Id rather take BPA than need. If they think wilson is bpa then take him.
I'm sorry but I have trouble seeing Wilson as the BPA at any point in the first round. I'd rather not invest a first round pick in a very poor man's Lucic. We're set at forward for awhile so take the best defenseman available whether it be Finn, Koekkoek, Bystrom or whoever's left...or package the pick in a trade to get a top pairing defenseman.

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06-19-2012, 01:28 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
yup and seeing as how the Kings are built with size up front it would not shock me at all if he takes Wilson despite the needs elsewhere.
When you only have 1 pick in the first 80 or whatever you really should be looking at adressing a need. I know the Flyers like to take the BPA on the board, but this is a draft where they must start getting defense into the organization. You cannot keep going into the college free agent well year after year.
See I'm okay with taking BPA, but no one can ever convince me Wilson is BPA. His offense is horrible for a potential first rounder.

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06-19-2012, 01:48 PM
  #228
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Tom Wilson reminds me of Jason Bowen (see the 1992 Entry Draft). Bowen was a terrible hockey player, but the premise was that Bowen's skill would eventually match his size. That was never the case and Bowen busted. I'm sure someone will be tantalized by Wilson because being his size and moving the way he does can be tempting. However, the skill just isn't there with Wilson.

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06-19-2012, 01:59 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Tom Wilson reminds me of Jason Bowen (see the 1992 Entry Draft). Bowen was a terrible hockey player, but the premise was that Bowen's skill would eventually match his size. That was never the case and Bowen busted. I'm sure someone will be tantalized by Wilson because being his size and moving the way he does can be tempting. However, the skill just isn't there with Wilson.
I just looked him up. That's a good comparison. Ugh. I'm really going to loathe this pick.

I noticed Wilson hasn't played much over the past two seasons. Does anyone know if he is injury prone?

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06-19-2012, 02:13 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I just looked him up. That's a good comparison. Ugh. I'm really going to loathe this pick.

I noticed Wilson hasn't played much over the past two seasons. Does anyone know if he is injury prone?
He's had a few injuries, but nothing that raises a huge concern about a chronic issue. He suffered a severed tendon in his wrist, broke a knuckle in a fight, and had a sprained MCL.

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06-19-2012, 03:24 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I am in the minority in that I don't care if they draft a defenseman or not. I would prefer it if they didn't draft a goalie in the first, but it won't be because they didn't draft a defender. They will fix their need on defense through free agency or trade. I find the whole we must draft defense thing a little silly.
D could be the best thing at their spot even if you went by BPA. Its a defenseman heavy draft. In the end they'll either draft who they feel is the best player regardless of position (possibly not be able to develop them properly) or someone they feel is a born Flyer (so they'll be a reach and won't pan out). That's why I said before you could possibly move down and still get the same thing unless you can move into the top 5.

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06-19-2012, 03:33 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
D could be the best thing at their spot even if you went by BPA. Its a defenseman heavy draft. In the end they'll either draft who they feel is the best player regardless of position (possibly not be able to develop them properly) or someone they feel is a born Flyer (so they'll be a reach and won't pan out). That's why I said before you could possibly move down and still get the same thing unless you can move into the top 5.
BPA could easily be a goaltender.

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06-19-2012, 03:34 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
BPA could easily be a goaltender.
Could easily be a(nother) Russian goaltender...


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06-19-2012, 05:20 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Could easily be a(nother) Russian goaltender...

I can see it now. With the 20th pick in the 2012 NHL Draft, the Philadelphia Flyers select Andrei Vasilevski.


Last edited by RussianRocket10: 06-19-2012 at 05:31 PM.
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Old
06-19-2012, 06:00 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Could easily be a(nother) Russian goaltender...

haha i hope not, but if Subban is available at #20 he could be a real steal.

Kids is the most athletic goaltender I think I've ever seen. He's got a good head on his shoulders too! A little small, but hes the closest thing to "a sure thing" I've seen in a 1st round goalie since Price came into the game.

(I doubt hes available though)

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06-19-2012, 06:15 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Could easily be a(nother) Russian goaltender...

What's wrong with a Russian goalie (other than using a 1st)?

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06-19-2012, 06:27 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
What's wrong with a Russian goalie (other than using a 1st)?
The "Russian," the "goalie," and the "1st" are all concerning, to be honest.

1. Any "Russian" prospect has a higher chance of eventually ending up in the KHL than any other nationality. A generalization, but I don't think it is much of a stretch. That being the case, if you're going to spend a 1st round pick, you better be sure they have a certain future role with your club.

2. A selection of any "goalie" at this point would be suspect, particularly if...

3. The pick happens to be in the 1st round--which in the past has not been as consistent at producing starters goaltenders, compared to say, forwards or defenseman.

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06-19-2012, 06:32 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
The "Russian," the "goalie," and the "1st" are all concerning, to be honest.

1. Any "Russian" prospect has a higher chance of eventually ending up in the KHL than any other nationality. A generalization, but I don't think it is much of a stretch. That being the case, if you're going to spend a 1st round pick, you better be sure they have a certain future role with your club.

2. A selection of any "goalie" at this point would be suspect, particularly if...

3. The pick happens to be in the 1st round--which in the past has not been as consistent at producing starters goaltenders, compared to say, forwards or defenseman.
Agreed on drafting goalies in the first. It just sounded like there is some crazy bias against Russians. I would have no problem drafting Vasilevski in the second round (if we had a pick).

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06-19-2012, 06:34 PM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Agreed on drafting goalies in the first. It just sounded like there is some crazy bias against Russians. I would have no problem drafting Vasilevski in the second round (if we had a pick).
I don't think it is a crazy (as in irrational) bias.

You don't think Russian prospects are more likely to end up staying in the KHL?

I don't think it is disqualifying; I wouldn't pass on Yakupov at 1, for example. But I don't see a reason not to take it into consideration--like "signability" in baseball.

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06-19-2012, 06:43 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I don't think it is a crazy (as in irrational) bias.

You don't think Russian prospects are more likely to end up staying in the KHL?

I don't think it is disqualifying; I wouldn't pass on Yakupov at 1, for example. But I don't see a reason not to take it into consideration--like "signability" in baseball.
I think the KHL is a legit concern, but there are people who have irrational biases against Russians in general. That's what it sounded like to me, but I apologize for making an assumption.

I wouldn't mind taking a risk on Russians especially after the first because you could end up with some steal since the KHL fear causes them to be undervalued. Yeah, it looks bad if they refuse to come over but it's better than wasting a pick on Wilson, Mathers, or Klotz.

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06-19-2012, 06:57 PM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I think the KHL is a legit concern, but there are people who have irrational biases against Russians in general. That's what it sounded like to me, but I apologize for making an assumption.

I wouldn't mind taking a risk on Russians especially after the first because you could end up with some steal since the KHL fear causes them to be undervalued. Yeah, it looks bad if they refuse to come over but it's better than wasting a pick on Wilson, Mathers, or Klotz.
No worries.

I have no issue taking the chance on a Russian if they are head-and-shoulders above a Canadian / American / Swede / etc. of similar caliber and quality.

In this hypothetical, though, I would prefer the Flyers take Subban or Dansk to Vasilevski, simply because they are (basically) certain to eventually play in the NHL if their skill warrants, and are close to comparable in the eyes of most scouts.

If, in contrast, I was faced with the choice of Grigorenko or any forward prospect not named Yakupov, Galchenyuk, or Forsberg, I'd take him without worrying about the "Russian" factor over guys like TT, Gaunce, etc.

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06-19-2012, 06:57 PM
  #242
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NHL Mock Draft 2012 Edition

Craig Button Selected all the Odd Number teams, Pierre McGuire with the evens.

1. EDM Nail Yakupov
2. CBJ Ryan Murray
3. MTL Alex Galchenyk
4. NYI Griffin Reinhart
5. TOR Filip Forsberg (McGuire says Morgan Reilly)
6. ANA Morgan Reilly
7. MIN Matt Dumba
8. CAR Radek Faksa
9. WPG Jacob Trouba
10. TB Olli Maata
11. WSH Teuvo Tervainen
12. BUF Hampus Lindholm
13. DAL Cody Ceci
14. CGY Derrick Pouliot
15. OTT Zemgus Girgensons
16. WSH Matt Finn
17. SJ Mikhail Grigorenko
18. CHI Slaer Koekkoek
19. TB Ludvig Bysrom
20. PHI Tom Wilson
21. BUF Brendan Gaunce
22. PIT Tomas Hertl
23. FLA Brady Skjei
24. BOS Andrei Vasilevski
25. STL Henrik Samuelsson
26. VAN Malcolm Subban
27. PHX Scott Laughton
28. NYR Stefan Matteau
29. NJD Mark Jankowski
30. LA Oscar Dansk

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06-19-2012, 07:00 PM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
The "Russian," the "goalie," and the "1st" are all concerning, to be honest.

1. Any "Russian" prospect has a higher chance of eventually ending up in the KHL than any other nationality. A generalization, but I don't think it is much of a stretch. That being the case, if you're going to spend a 1st round pick, you better be sure they have a certain future role with your club.

2. A selection of any "goalie" at this point would be suspect, particularly if...

3. The pick happens to be in the 1st round--which in the past has not been as consistent at producing starters goaltenders, compared to say, forwards or defenseman.
Goalies certainly have more variation from when they're picked than skaters, but with high risk comes high reward. I'd rather us get the next potential vezina over a guaranteed 3/4 defenseman. (if the potential is truly there.)

BPA means Best PLAYER Available, regardless of position. If the flyers see a player they like, they should grab him.

I for one like subban, as previously noted. Wonder if the flyers do as well (although I really do think another team will take him before #20)

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06-19-2012, 07:03 PM
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
No worries.

I have no issue taking the chance on a Russian if they are head-and-shoulders above a Canadian / American / Swede / etc. of similar caliber and quality.

In this hypothetical, though, I would prefer the Flyers take Subban or Dansk to Vasilevski, simply because they are (basically) certain to eventually play in the NHL if their skill warrants, and are close to comparable in the eyes of most scouts.

If, in contrast, I was faced with the choice of Grigorenko or any forward prospect not named Yakupov, Galchenyuk, or Forsberg, I'd take him without worrying about the "Russian" factor over guys like TT, Gaunce, etc.
If the 'Russian Factor' lets him drop below #10, some team will be VERY lucky (I hope its us...pipe dream I know )

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06-19-2012, 07:04 PM
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kassian Train View Post
Craig Button Selected all the Odd Number teams, Pierre McGuire with the evens.

1. EDM Nail Yakupov
2. CBJ Ryan Murray
3. MTL Alex Galchenyk
4. NYI Griffin Reinhart
5. TOR Filip Forsberg (McGuire says Morgan Reilly)
6. ANA Morgan Reilly
7. MIN Matt Dumba
8. CAR Radek Faksa
9. WPG Jacob Trouba
10. TB Olli Maata
11. WSH Teuvo Tervainen
12. BUF Hampus Lindholm
13. DAL Cody Ceci
14. CGY Derrick Pouliot
15. OTT Zemgus Girgensons
16. WSH Matt Finn
17. SJ Mikhail Grigorenko
18. CHI Slaer Koekkoek
19. TB Ludvig Bysrom
20. PHI Tom Wilson
21. BUF Brendan Gaunce
22. PIT Tomas Hertl
23. FLA Brady Skjei
24. BOS Andrei Vasilevski
25. STL Henrik Samuelsson
26. VAN Malcolm Subban
27. PHX Scott Laughton
28. NYR Stefan Matteau
29. NJD Mark Jankowski
30. LA Oscar Dansk
1. That's the worst case scenario for the Flyers in terms of the top 19 picks, I think.

2. In that situation, I really hope we trade back or take Hertl.

3. WTF would the Kings take a goalie at 30?

EDIT: To expand:

4. Washington takes Finn with Grigorenko on the board?

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06-19-2012, 07:04 PM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kassian Train View Post
Craig Button Selected all the Odd Number teams, Pierre McGuire with the evens.

1. EDM Nail Yakupov
2. CBJ Ryan Murray
3. MTL Alex Galchenyk
4. NYI Griffin Reinhart
5. TOR Filip Forsberg (McGuire says Morgan Reilly)
6. ANA Morgan Reilly
7. MIN Matt Dumba
8. CAR Radek Faksa
9. WPG Jacob Trouba
10. TB Olli Maata
11. WSH Teuvo Tervainen
12. BUF Hampus Lindholm
13. DAL Cody Ceci
14. CGY Derrick Pouliot
15. OTT Zemgus Girgensons
16. WSH Matt Finn
17. SJ Mikhail Grigorenko
18. CHI Slaer Koekkoek
19. TB Ludvig Bysrom
20. PHI Tom Wilson
21. BUF Brendan Gaunce
22. PIT Tomas Hertl
23. FLA Brady Skjei
24. BOS Andrei Vasilevski
25. STL Henrik Samuelsson
26. VAN Malcolm Subban
27. PHX Scott Laughton
28. NYR Stefan Matteau
29. NJD Mark Jankowski
30. LA Oscar Dansk


I would trade up in a heartbeat ( if it was the 17th pick and grigs was there!)

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06-19-2012, 07:19 PM
  #247
Haute Couturier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
1. That's the worst case scenario for the Flyers in terms of the top 19 picks, I think.

2. In that situation, I really hope we trade back or take Hertl.

3. WTF would the Kings take a goalie at 30?

EDIT: To expand:

4. Washington takes Finn with Grigorenko on the board?
I'll vomit if we take Wilson and watch Hertl go to the Pens, but I'm prepared for that awful selection.

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06-19-2012, 07:28 PM
  #248
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Yep might as well prepare fpr tom wilson. Sighhh

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06-19-2012, 07:29 PM
  #249
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This draft could unfold in any number of ways, which is actually quite scary. Especially when you throw in the possibility that the Flyers reach for "born Flyers."

And for the record I'm not against drafting Russian players, I just think that many of them prefer to play at home and the KHL clubs can spend money easier so it's always a risk.

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06-19-2012, 07:36 PM
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
This draft could unfold in any number of ways, which is actually quite scary. Especially when you throw in the possibility that the Flyers reach for "born Flyers."

And for the record I'm not against drafting Russian players, I just think that many of them prefer to play at home and the KHL clubs can spend money easier so it's always a risk.
The one good thing about this is someone the Flyers like more than Wilson could end up dropping to them.

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