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NHL.com re-does the 2007 first round (Subban 4th, Patches 8th, Eller 20th)

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Old
06-19-2012, 09:04 PM
  #51
Blind Gardien
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Originally Posted by stubbadub View Post
Man, if Karlsson got 6.5 million from Ottawa, what's PK gonna get from Montreal? Calisse!
If I could get him for 7 years... I wouldn't balk at $5M. But presumably his camp won't want to lock in quite that long, not until he has a bigger offensive year that could drive his numbers higher. So for something more of a "bridge" deal, 1-3 years, preserve RFA, maybe $4M-ish.

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06-19-2012, 09:14 PM
  #52
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Eller is low, but it's to be expected from people who don't watch him play. They see his stats and where he was drafted and automatically think that he's not reaching his potential. Eller is a stud, though. Will have people eating their words.

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06-19-2012, 09:20 PM
  #53
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Really? I'd take #10-15 over Eller. And think about Smith. I know we get some nice flashes from Eller, but realistically, he hasn't delivered with any kind of consistency. Some of which is very understandable given his utilization. But he still hasn't done anything more than those other guys, bottom line.
At this point in time, I would agree with you on 10-15, with the exception of Kyle Turris.

With that being said, I still think Lars has great potential to be a two-way force, I just don't know if he has 70 point first line potential that some think he has.

You can really see the flashes of brilliance though..

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06-19-2012, 09:23 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Eller is low, but it's to be expected from people who don't watch him play. They see his stats and where he was drafted and automatically think that he's not reaching his potential. Eller is a stud, though. Will have people eating their words.
I "hope" he's a stud, and I understand why some of you guys will say that, but it's still "hope" to me... he hasn't made me "believe it" yet. So many years, so many prospects and young players, so many hopes cruelly crushed... I don't see good enough reasons to "believe" in Eller, not yet.

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06-19-2012, 09:26 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Really? I'd take #10-15 over Eller. And think about Smith. I know we get some nice flashes from Eller, but realistically, he hasn't delivered with any kind of consistency. Some of which is very understandable given his utilization. But he still hasn't done anything more than those other guys, bottom line.
You'd take Sam Gagner over Eller, seriously?

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06-19-2012, 09:28 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
You'd take Sam Gagner over Eller, seriously?
Maybe, maybe not, but if Eller gets a pass and has potential, why doesn't gagner?

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06-19-2012, 09:30 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
You'd take Sam Gagner over Eller, seriously?
Totally, sans hesitation. Yeah, I didn't just throw out the 10-15, they're all better players than Eller IMHO. Our hope for Eller is still in the untapped potential category. Hopefully it gets tapped. But too often, that never really works out the way we dream it will.

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06-19-2012, 09:31 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Maybe, maybe not, but if Eller gets a pass and has potential, why doesn't gagner?
Well both deserve to be in the same league, so to speak, for that reason. But I would not trade Eller straight up for Gagner, definitely. I know they close age-wise, but Eller has played significantly less time in the NHL and hasn't shown that much less offensively when you consider how he has been used.

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06-19-2012, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Maybe, maybe not, but if Eller gets a pass and has potential, why doesn't gagner?
Because gagner has been given way more opportunity to impress, for one. That and Eller is already miles better defensively.

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06-19-2012, 09:39 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Because gagner has been given way more opportunity to impress, for one. That and Eller is already miles better defensively.
Exactly.

Eller hasn't broken out offensively (though he's progressed more than Plekanec and Desharnais at the same age), but he doubled his point production while greatly increasing his defensively workload in two seasons.

He might not be more than a 3rd line centre (something he's already comfortable at when given support), but he's shown enough at both ends to be the same league as the players listed 10-19.

I mean Simmonds, a year older, has been in the league twice as long as Eller...on a worse offensive team, he got 2 whole points more than Eller at the same age.

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06-19-2012, 09:53 PM
  #61
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Well both deserve to be in the same league, so to speak, for that reason. But I would not trade Eller straight up for Gagner, definitely. I know they close age-wise, but Eller has played significantly less time in the NHL and hasn't shown that much less offensively when you consider how he has been used.
Probably not as we need a big center and Gagner doesn't fit the bill. We'll keep Eller and try it out, but odds are Gagner is better player long term IMO.

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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Because gagner has been given way more opportunity to impress, for one. That and Eller is already miles better defensively.
He made the NHL at 18. It's only normal. Again, if Eller has potential, Gagner still does too.

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06-19-2012, 10:01 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
I try to erase the idea that McDo exist from my memory, but the kid is so good that he keeps on coming again and again.
If it helps, there is a chance we'd be picking 6-10 this year, not 3rd, if the Gomer trade had not been made.

This because we would have had someone, anyone, other than Gomer in his spot, like my grandmother for instance, who would have played better, and of course McDo, who might have made a difference in 5 games tied or lost.

So I look at our pick this year as compensation for the disaster.

It comforts me, a bit.

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06-19-2012, 10:06 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
I shift DD to wing and have Galchenyuk, Plekanec and Eller down the middle. Desharnais doesnt have all the tools for a #1 center, and Plekanec is the perfect #2. Eller can play the Jordan Staal role and shift to wing when needed. In my opinion you keep all three.

A line of Pacioretty, Galchenyuk and Desharnais would be awesome. Two finishers and one passer, and Gals can dish it too. Size, skill, finesse and speed. It has everything.
The day we have to shift DD to wing because 3 of our centers are better is the day we trade him. He's no use to us on wing.

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06-19-2012, 11:22 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
More like too bad we've had Pierre Gauthier.
Even if Gauthier had some influence (unproven), it was Gainey who pulled the trigger. Gainey made some other bad decisions in rebuilding the Habs. The Tanguay trade was damaging. Koivu played better than Gomez and even Higgins would have been better. I never liked Chipchura nd Fischer was a disaster.

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06-20-2012, 12:40 AM
  #65
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I'd love to see a re-working of the draft Halak was in. If NHL.com does this, can somebody private message me the link? I don't log into HF enough these days and I'd probably miss it

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06-20-2012, 05:04 AM
  #66
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I'd love to see a re-working of the draft Halak was in. If NHL.com does this, can somebody private message me the link? I don't log into HF enough these days and I'd probably miss it
Halak was drafted in 2003, so while he has grown a lot from being the 271st player selected he might not even be in the top 20 overall in a re-worked draft given the talent taken that year.

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06-20-2012, 07:23 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Eller is low, but it's to be expected from people who don't watch him play. They see his stats and where he was drafted and automatically think that he's not reaching his potential. Eller is a stud, though. Will have people eating their words.
I hope I don't hear the same thing 3 years from now.

For the record, I like Lars and see a lot of great things he does that does not show up on the scoreboard. Stud? I wouldn't go that far. He could turn out to be a force or just a complimentary player and so far he's looking like a complimentary player but there's a lot of time for that to change. The good thing is he's improving every year by quite a large margin.

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06-20-2012, 07:49 AM
  #68
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I understand where Lars is ranked but I really think he can pull it off to be considered a steady two way 50+ point threat... i.e. the perfect second line centre...since I do not expect him to be a first line center at all anymore

When this team is fully developed and all their current draft picks mature (including this years 3rd overall) which I would say is in two years (2014-2015) and we lose most of our older core guys that will be on the decline or already horribly are (Gomez, Gionta, Kaberle, Markov: though we will prob resign him on the 2nd pair for cheap) Lars is going to be a gem.

I say this because by then Pleks will either still be around or will become PERFECT tradebait to be the missing piece to put us over the top for a solid cup run... i.e. we will have great goaltending, a solid young dcore (Tinordi, subban, emelin, gorges, beaulieu, ellis/dietz/bennett/whoever develops), and hopefully a solid top 6 with our 3rd overall pick slotted as our first line centre (or even winger)...

I can easily see Lars becoming a Pleks clone but bigger, stronger, and more willing to be dirty...

I think that 2011-2012 was the biggest year of development for Lars for 2 reasons:
1. He learned to score goals himself by either opening up space to unleash a wrister or reading the play and pounding away pucks from within 15 feet of the net after a rebound or scramble
2. He learned to shut down other teams top lines and put defense first

He had to do these two things because of the way he was used... he had to learn to score because of a revolving door of crappy wingers who couldn't really score and he learned to shut down opponents obviously because of his role...

Quite frankly it is difficult to say he hasn't tapped his potential because he has been transformed as a player... He wasn't supposed to be a third line defensive dynamo who played with guys who barely broke 20 points last year...

He has always been a playmaker with excellent puck protection and amazing short passes though he doesn't have the vision of a desharnais or a markov for example

That is why I do not seeing it being a reach at all to expect Lars producing approximately 20-20 on ES with 2 20+ goal scorers on his wing if he's being played in a second line role. Give him regular PP time and I believe he's a lock for 50+ points a year plus being a beast on the other side of the puck with a bit of a mean streak

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06-20-2012, 07:49 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Totally, sans hesitation. Yeah, I didn't just throw out the 10-15, they're all better players than Eller IMHO. Our hope for Eller is still in the untapped potential category. Hopefully it gets tapped. But too often, that never really works out the way we dream it will.
I'd be really, really upset if we traded Eller for Gagner.

A player like Gagner isn't that hard to find in the late first or early 2nd round or as a UFA or cheap in a trade whereas how many times do you see a guy like Eller available. Gagner just isn't that valuable, he's just filler until someone better comes along. Cruel, but true.

That's where the draft is in error, because Eller would go ahead of Gagner, easily and that is what the exercise was all about.

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06-20-2012, 08:11 AM
  #70
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Eller is fine at 20. He still hasn't done anything in this league. He has some upside, but he's not a good playmaker and his shot is nothing special. He'll probably develop in a poor man's Jordan Staal.

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06-20-2012, 08:20 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I'd be really, really upset if we traded Eller for Gagner.
Well, I don't think I said I'd trade Eller for Gagner, not right now, not as Habs GM. But if I was sitting at a draft table for a general team in general... I'd generally take Gagner. The Habs are a bit of a special case with Plekanec and Desharnais up the middle, and there's a relatively unique dynamic there which argues for hoping and waiting on Eller instead.

But then, I really like Gagner and think he's a very creative player with untapped offensive potential. I don't believe Eller will ever touch Gagner's production. I think Gagner will score 1,000 points in the NHL before he retires.

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06-20-2012, 08:40 AM
  #72
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Well, I don't think I said I'd trade Eller for Gagner, not right now, not as Habs GM. But if I was sitting at a draft table for a general team in general... I'd generally take Gagner. The Habs are a bit of a special case with Plekanec and Desharnais up the middle, and there's a relatively unique dynamic there which argues for hoping and waiting on Eller instead.

But then, I really like Gagner and think he's a very creative player with untapped offensive potential. I don't believe Eller will ever touch Gagner's production. I think Gagner will score 1,000 points in the NHL before he retires.
1000? If he improves to a legit top 2 center then yah maybe. As is though, he's a 2nd line guy with upside and a guy like Plekanec(deemed a 1B or 2A) is much superior, even offensively.

That being said, Gagner's creativity is great. He absolutely does have untapped potential and he's only 22.

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06-20-2012, 08:52 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
1000? If he improves to a legit top 2 center then yah maybe. As is though, he's a 2nd line guy with upside and a guy like Plekanec(deemed a 1B or 2A) is much superior, even offensively.
I'm not sure if Plekanec is "much superior" offensively, but he's certainly a much better overall player. Anyway, I'm not even sure Gagner is ultimately going to stick as a center. But he's got a nice 200-pt start on the way to 1,000 at an age where some guys (think Ray Whitney) had just cracked the league. He'll still need some 70-80 pt seasons and decent longevity to get there, but I think he has a chance, anyway. Barring unforseen major injuries.

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06-20-2012, 08:58 AM
  #74
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All this did was reinforce my faith in Timmins getting us a real great player with each of the first 3 picks we hold this year

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06-20-2012, 09:06 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
I try to erase the idea that McDo exist from my memory, but the kid is so good that he keeps on coming again and again.
Yeah im considering getting hypno therapy to forget that he exist


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