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NHL Mock Draft 2012 Edition (Canucks pick G Malcom Subban)

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Old
06-19-2012, 09:26 PM
  #51
Katani Kalan
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I'd be happy with Subban as Luongo will be traded and Lack will be the back-up. You need guys in the system and goalie's take a few yrs to develop. If Lack and/or Subban develop as hoped we could flip Schneider for help elsewhere in 3-5 yrs?? Also wouldn't hurt to have Malcolm on the team to lure PK here in a few yrs when he's a UFA thoughts?

Also if Mikhail Grigorenko is really fallen that far any chance we can flip Luongo to Tampa for just the 10th pick? Don't really see any team from 11th to 16th wanting Luongo so has to be Tampa making the deal and us landing Mikhail Grigorenko at 10.

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06-19-2012, 09:40 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by rebel diamond View Post
There's no such thing as a consensus Best Player Available this far down the draft. I feel like BPA only really holds true for the top 10-15 picks.

I've never been a big fan of drafting goalies in the first round, but if the Canucks really like him and think he fills a need then I wouldn't be all that upset about the pick. But doing it just because he's the highest-rated player left on the board is just foolish.
Taking the "highest-rated" player is foolish?

"Consensus" in this draft is pretty much saved for Yakupov alone.

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06-19-2012, 09:46 PM
  #53
Katani Kalan
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How about this for making a splash? We trade Scneider plus our 2nd pick to Tampa for their 10th and 19th over all. We take Mikhail Grigorenko at 10, Tom Wilson at 19 and Subban at 26. Then sign Shultz as a UFA and we have our greatest draft year ever.

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06-19-2012, 09:54 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by armchairgmvancouver View Post
How about this for making a splash? We trade Scneider plus our 2nd pick to Tampa for their 10th and 19th over all. We take Mikhail Grigorenko at 10, Tom Wilson at 19 and Subban at 26. Then sign Shultz as a UFA and we have our greatest draft year ever.
Tampa just traded for Lindback.

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06-19-2012, 10:07 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by m9 View Post
Tampa just traded for Lindback.
Lindback will be exposed not playing behind the Preds defense. He's good but not a 1st stringer yet. For the haters who say either is Schneider when you start playoff games ahead of Luongo your proven. Lindback could still be flipped to Maple Leafs as they need a goalie and Yzerman has been known to covet Scneider for awhile now. Will it happen highly doubtfull but is it possible yes.

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06-19-2012, 10:39 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Canucks are not going to pick Subban. Lack was a free agent and Cannata was a late round pick. Why in the world would we consider picking a goalie in the 1st round given that it won't become a problem for us for another 10+ years?
Here is how I view drafting goalies in the 1st round, taking into account that the typical goalie drafted at 18 will play 2 more years in the CHL, plus 2 more at the AHL level, so you're looking at 4 years before they should be on an NHL roster.

1) You do so only if your #1 goalie is 30 years old and you don't have anyone in your system that you can bank on to be your future #1 goalie. Canucks don't fall into this category. Rangers might, for example, since Lundqvist is in his early 30's and I don't know who they have coming through their ranks.

2) You have no goalie in the system right now and your #1 isn't very good. Again, not the Canucks right now. But, again, factor in that it will take 4 years for the goalie to play and you can see that you really want to be thinking well ahead about replacing your #1 goalie. Columbus for example is in this position.

For the Canucks, they should continue what they have done in the past few drafts with goalies. Take one in the middle rounds. Cannata, Ilhati, Honzig were drafted in rounds 3-6 I believe. Lack was a FA signing. Keep taking shots with mid rounders and hopefully one will develop to take over for Schneider one day. They have a few years more until Cory hits 30 to keep this practice up.

NJ, Brodeur is playing 1 more season from the looks of it, unless there is an extended work stoppage. Best goalie prospect is Scott Wedgewood, but he'll be in the AHL for the next couple of seasons. So, they will need a stop gap between Marty and Wedgewood.

No chance that 3 goalies go in the 1st round.

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06-19-2012, 10:44 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Street Hawk View Post
Here is how I view drafting goalies in the 1st round, taking into account that the typical goalie drafted at 18 will play 2 more years in the CHL, plus 2 more at the AHL level, so you're looking at 4 years before they should be on an NHL roster.

1) You do so only if your #1 goalie is 30 years old and you don't have anyone in your system that you can bank on to be your future #1 goalie. Canucks don't fall into this category. Rangers might, for example, since Lundqvist is in his early 30's and I don't know who they have coming through their ranks.

2) You have no goalie in the system right now and your #1 isn't very good. Again, not the Canucks right now. But, again, factor in that it will take 4 years for the goalie to play and you can see that you really want to be thinking well ahead about replacing your #1 goalie. Columbus for example is in this position.

For the Canucks, they should continue what they have done in the past few drafts with goalies. Take one in the middle rounds. Cannata, Ilhati, Honzig were drafted in rounds 3-6 I believe. Lack was a FA signing. Keep taking shots with mid rounders and hopefully one will develop to take over for Schneider one day. They have a few years more until Cory hits 30 to keep this practice up.

NJ, Brodeur is playing 1 more season from the looks of it, unless there is an extended work stoppage. Best goalie prospect is Scott Wedgewood, but he'll be in the AHL for the next couple of seasons. So, they will need a stop gap between Marty and Wedgewood.

No chance that 3 goalies go in the 1st round.
Subban is a '93.

Next season could be his last year of junior.

That said, no thanks to a goalie, unless we traded down to get it.

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06-20-2012, 12:23 AM
  #58
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I wouldn't mind Subban to be honest. Looking at the forward prospects around the 26th pick...most project out to be 3rd liners anyway. If Subban is an elite prospect who could one day be a top goalie, that makes much more sense to pick him here. I can't see Lack being with us too long if we keep Schneider. And what if Cannata doesn't pan out? By the time Subban is ready to take a starting job, Schneider will be older or at least as old as Luongo is right now.

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06-20-2012, 12:28 AM
  #59
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I was'nt crazy about the idea either but if our scouts feel that Subban has the goods to project as a #1 starting goaltender and the available skaters only have a ceiling as bottom 6 forwards or 5/6 dmen then from an organizational viewpoint you gotta do it.
Having depth at one position does make way for trades to fill the organizational needs we'll have down the line.Because we drafted Schroeder even though we really did'nt any more smallish centres at the time,it helped make the Hodgson deal a lot more doable for MG as we have JS being close to NHL ready.

I realize that right now we really need scoring wingers and more grit throughout the lineup but by having an extra starting goalie we can now deal,we should be able to address that need this summer.By the time Subban is NHL ready,we just might be in a similar position again,if not sooner.

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06-20-2012, 01:01 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Bitz and Bites View Post
I was'nt crazy about the idea either but if our scouts feel that Subban has the goods to project as a #1 starting goaltender and the available skaters only have a ceiling as bottom 6 forwards or 5/6 dmen then from an organizational viewpoint you gotta do it.
Having depth at one position does make way for trades to fill the organizational needs we'll have down the line.Because we drafted Schroeder even though we really did'nt any more smallish centres at the time,it helped make the Hodgson deal a lot more doable for MG as we have JS being close to NHL ready.

I realize that right now we really need scoring wingers and more grit throughout the lineup but by having an extra starting goalie we can now deal,we should be able to address that need this summer.By the time Subban is NHL ready,we just might be in a similar position again,if not sooner.
It's much harder to do a goalie trade now than it is for a skater. Pool of teams looking for a goalie is very small. Just the reality of how things are. Only 60 spots in the NHL for a goalie, 30 of them starters.

Of the 30 starters last season, how many were acquired via trade post lockout? That's 7 seasons, so quite a long time.

Avs and Nucks with Varlamov and Luongo - Varly for a 1st and 2nd. Lu, Krajchek for Bert and Allen
Stars with Lehtonen - Ivan Vishnevsky and a 4th.
Halak - Eller and Schultz
Anderson - Elliott
Bry - spare parts as a soon to be UFA
Roloson - Wishart

Very mininal trades involving goalies.

Team isn't in a dire need for goaltending yet, so I would focus on getting Dmen or Forwards in the early rounds. Take a flyer on a goalie in the mid rounds and hope you get lucky and find another Rinne, Lundqvist, Quick from rounds 3 onward.

3 or 4 drafts from now, if you haven't gotten lucky on one of these goalies, then use a higher pick.

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06-20-2012, 01:44 AM
  #61
Katani Kalan
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Originally Posted by Street Hawk View Post
It's much harder to do a goalie trade now than it is for a skater. Pool of teams looking for a goalie is very small. Just the reality of how things are. Only 60 spots in the NHL for a goalie, 30 of them starters.

Of the 30 starters last season, how many were acquired via trade post lockout? That's 7 seasons, so quite a long time.

Avs and Nucks with Varlamov and Luongo - Varly for a 1st and 2nd. Lu, Krajchek for Bert and Allen
Stars with Lehtonen - Ivan Vishnevsky and a 4th.
Halak - Eller and Schultz
Anderson - Elliott
Bry - spare parts as a soon to be UFA
Roloson - Wishart

Very mininal trades involving goalies.

Team isn't in a dire need for goaltending yet, so I would focus on getting Dmen or Forwards in the early rounds. Take a flyer on a goalie in the mid rounds and hope you get lucky and find another Rinne, Lundqvist, Quick from rounds 3 onward.

3 or 4 drafts from now, if you haven't gotten lucky on one of these goalies, then use a higher pick.
Not to many traded not because nobody wanted to but because once you ave a good one why trade them? Subban at 26 is a no brainer to me as he's the best asset available at the time if still available that is. However if someone like Tom Wilson slips to 26 which won't happen then ya you take him.

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06-20-2012, 01:46 AM
  #62
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Personally I think Chicago will take him. He probably won't be availlable by us anyways.

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06-20-2012, 01:51 AM
  #63
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I'm all for always picking BPA in the draft. That being said, if a goalie is clearly BPA many other teams should feel the same way and we should be able to parlay that pick into other picks or players that fill out our organization a bit better via trade.
Agreed. If he's a BPA who's available we should be able to trade down if someone wants to draft him instead, and gain a pick or two.

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06-20-2012, 02:04 AM
  #64
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As has be said ad infinitum, i don't think we do this.

I think the Hoznik and Cannata picks, and the Lack signing show Gillis is certainly inclined to acquire a goalie each year. However he seems to be going for late round 'boom or bust' picks. Which given the unpredictability of goaltending prospects, is probably an excellent strategy. Every 3/4 years we should be in luck and snag a very capable one.

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06-20-2012, 02:22 AM
  #65
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This short blog quite easily sums up how I feel about drafting a goalie early.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...-anybody-else/

The succes rate of goalies drafted in the first round is simply too low, and when we already have promising prospects in the organization, I see no reason to 'waste' a first rounder on a goaltender. I'd rather we pick one in the latter rounds like Gillis usually do.

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06-20-2012, 02:34 AM
  #66
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This short blog quite easily sums up how I feel about drafting a goalie early.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...-anybody-else/

The succes rate of goalies drafted in the first round is simply too low, and when we already have promising prospects in the organization, I see no reason to 'waste' a first rounder on a goaltender. I'd rather we pick one in the latter rounds like Gillis usually do.
Yup.

Drafting a goalie - no matter who it is - instantly halves the chances you're going to get an effective asset from your #1 pick. And even if it turns out, it'll be an extra 2-3 years (at least) down the road.

There's no way in hell we should be picking a goalie right now. It's our biggest organizational strength, it's unlikely we need a goalie for a very long time, and drafting goalies is just fundamentally stupid to begin with.

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06-20-2012, 03:19 AM
  #67
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If Grigorenko falls past 15 or so I'd entertain trading up to grab him.

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06-20-2012, 03:39 AM
  #68
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A guy I talk to off and on suggested the Canucks have an eye on Andrey Makarov as a goalie. They interviewed him a few times, apparently.

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06-20-2012, 03:44 AM
  #69
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A guy I talk to off and on suggested the Canucks have an eye on Andrey Makarov as a goalie. They interviewed him a few times, apparently.


Another Saskatoon Blade?

Fitting in with my theme of drafting all of them.

Thrower 1st round, get Sutter 2nd round, Makarov 5th round?

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06-20-2012, 04:47 AM
  #70
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I watched this on tv and thought as it was happening "I know their job is hockey, but this is kinda sad. Do they even know organizational needs of some of these teams?" Some of their explanations were baaaad.

I'm in the camp of moving up to draft grigorenko if he fails past 9-10. Depends what it takes though...

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06-20-2012, 05:41 AM
  #71
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Taking the "highest-rated" player is foolish?
If the highest-rated remaining player is a goalie, then may well be foolish. As noted a few posts back, goalie success rates are much less correlated with draft position than forwards or defensemen.

Given that, even though Subban may have a 1st round rating, I wouldn't take him at #26. If he dropped to the late 2nd round, it's perhaps a reasonable gamble at that point.

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06-20-2012, 07:53 AM
  #72
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Out of curiousity, what would it take to move up to 17th? Would our 1st + 2nd be enough? If we somehow manage to get Grigorenko this draft, I'll donate $25 to charity. He's bigger+younger+eventual replacement for the Sedins. He'd be perfect on the Canucks. And I think the work ethic issues are overblown, personally.

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06-20-2012, 07:55 AM
  #73
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Yeah... Subban won't be the BPA at 26.

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06-20-2012, 08:00 AM
  #74
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If the highest-rated remaining player is a goalie, then may well be foolish. As noted a few posts back, goalie success rates are much less correlated with draft position than forwards or defensemen.

Given that, even though Subban may have a 1st round rating, I wouldn't take him at #26. If he dropped to the late 2nd round, it's perhaps a reasonable gamble at that point.
Was it wrong for the Canucks to draft Schneider at 26th in 2004?

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06-20-2012, 08:07 AM
  #75
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Collberg would be my pick if the draft was those 25 before us. I have no problem taking Subban if he is the BPA though. Who knows where we will be with our goalies 3-4 years from now. I hear so much about our goaltending depth, but that is largely due to Luongo/Schnieder, of which, we will trade one soon. No other goalie has proven anything at the NHL level yet. Sure Lack has done well at the AHL, but so have many others who amounted to nothing in the NHL.

With the perceived garbage offers I've seen for Luongo, I'm inclined to trade Schneider to Columbus for the second overall + other assets and then drafting Subban 26th to hopefully develop in 3-5 years would fit in well.

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