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Sens re-sign Erik Karlsson (7 years, $6.5M cap hit)

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06-20-2012, 02:18 AM
  #426
bert
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Originally Posted by BringTheReign View Post
If he keeps it up, this will be a great contract for Senators.

I don't really like the Sens, but it would suck to see the vast majority of haters proven correct in this thread if he was a flash in the pan.

A flash in the pan that won best d man at the 2009 WJC a flash in the pan that made the nhl at 19 despite being 160 pounds. A flash in the pan that has 149 points in 216 games as a 19 20 and 21 year old. 11 points in 12 games in the AHL at 19. 7 points in 13 games in the playoffs. Those are numbers from a defenseman eh... He has also improved his PPG every season moving forward. He also led the NHL in takeaways this past season.

Homerun by the sens, he is also a very mature young man that moved away from home and on his own at 16 is getting married this summer, he knows what he wants and just took a discount to stay with this franchise long term. Keep up the hatred everyone its not transparent at all.

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06-20-2012, 02:20 AM
  #427
Tomas W
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Originally Posted by Alycat View Post
One nomination doesn't make you a #1 sorry. By your logic, Mike Green is a #1.
Green was a #1 D, maybe isnt right now, might be again next season.

If a guy can be considered as at least the 3rd best defenceman, then I guess the only way for him to not be his teams #1 is if the same team have one of the other Norris nominees. That's logic.
................

6.5 was exactly what I thought he would get. I wonder if he would have got 6.7 if he had that jersey number...

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06-20-2012, 02:22 AM
  #428
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Comparisons are ridiculous. I could go on about how much better (I feel) Karlsson is than other defencemen, but there isn't a point in that. If you're doubting Karlsson's contract because he's so young, sure, there's an argument to be had for that. But when you watch a player grow the way he has, to arguably the best defenceman this year, you have to pay him. He could've gotten a lot more if he (or his agent) pulled a Doughty. The fact of the matter is that a super star 21 year old player comes around so rarely, that when you find one whose heart is in your team, you pay him, and you lock him down. Excellent deal all around, and that's just the way it is.

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06-20-2012, 02:24 AM
  #429
Tomas W
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Nah, but one could argue Suter is a better all around player and UFA's tend to get more then RFA's.
This depends on what the teams need are. If you want a PP specialist / offensive threat, then Karlsson is a lot better than Suter. Karlssons stickhandling, offensive awareness and skating is elite, if you dont know this, then you have seen to little of Karlsson. At 21 there is actually not really any need for Karlsson to improve his offence, if it can stay the same that would be great for Ottawa. Of course he can still grow as a player in his own end.

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06-20-2012, 03:24 AM
  #430
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on suter:

his value is above EK's because of his age and the fact that he is UFA.


on subban:
EK is miles (okay, hundreds of miles) better offensively and probably better defensively (if you define that as ability to prevent scoring chances) as well from a neutral eye. Montreal fans should in no way be worried that subban will command anything near this contract.

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06-20-2012, 05:04 AM
  #431
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I think it's a good signing. Cap will go up and Karlsson's abilities polish a bit so this might be a very good deal towards the end of the contract.

Dman there are many jealous people in this thread.

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06-20-2012, 05:44 AM
  #432
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Does Montreal fans even watch their players ? Subban had really inconsistent year. I have no idea why so much love for 3rd defenceman at best..

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06-20-2012, 05:47 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Well I'm an Oil fan. Explain that.
Easy. You don't know what you're talking about.

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06-20-2012, 06:07 AM
  #434
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$6.5 million offensive zone starts

congrats sens fans

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06-20-2012, 07:08 AM
  #435
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
About the same coin, but Suban > Karlsson. He brings a lot more to the table.
really, based on what? From what I've saw since they both started Subban haven really iimproved mostly stayed par to his game while Karlsson have improve all aspects of his game every year

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06-20-2012, 07:09 AM
  #436
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Great signing.

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06-20-2012, 07:15 AM
  #437
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My observations/opinion ;

1) Karlsson is a #1 defenseman.
2) Not every offensive defenseman is always BAD defensively.
3) Though Karlsson is not a complete defenseman & IMO (still) average defensively but not horrible.
4) Very good contract if he can at least put up 65 points and plays the same like last season.
5) I hope he can perform on the big stage as well. He was kinda disappointing this post season and even that goal was a fluke.
6) I would not be surprised if he would win the Norris, based on his insane offensive output this past season.
7) Annoying if a defenseman (Karlsson) isnt physical (fact) that he always has a very 'active' stick and great positioning (debatable). Not everyone is Lidstrom.
8) Last but not least and for those who dont know yet. Drew Doughty has signed for 8 years, not 7. I dont understand why he is being mentioned with Bouwmeester/Phaneuf.
9) Congrats Sens fans.

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06-20-2012, 07:21 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Freaky Styley View Post
Sorry, but when you are in possession of the puck, you are on offense. Defense is what you do when you don't have the puck. He is a good player, but that's a lot of money for a lot of years for one good season. We have seen plenty of young D-men take off for a year and not repeat the success like Phaneuf, Green, etc. I'm not saying he won't, but it is risky none-the-less.

Suter will command more money because he is UFA and better all around. He has also been consistently a top D-man and is entering his prime.
Interesting perspective, but not completely accurate.

Having the puck in the defensive zone, and moving it effectivly is a crucial skill. EK does this exceptionally well. Having a defenseman grab the puck and fling it off the boards simply reduces the pressure for a bit while the other team regains possession.

When EK gets possession in his zone, the other team generally will go into a defensive posture, he has that kind of skill.


About the contract....

The contract obviously comes with pros and cons.

Historically speaking, a good number of players that get big contracts tank, or at least don't earn the money. So yes there is a chance that could happen. There is also the injury factor, but he seems pretty agile, so he doesn't seem to take a lot of hits.

On the plus side, he seems to be pretty focused. Alfresson is his mentor, and likely has a good feel for the kid. This bodes well from the Sens perspective. As somebody mentioned, he is getting married this summer so he could have gone playboy, but he choose homeboy instead. That shows a high level of maturity, which is again a plus.

He will need to control his anger a bit, as he gets chippy and loses focus when he gets beat or somebody snags the puck from him on one of his dangle/breakouts. I also expect that he will get a lot more attention this year than last, so I would not expect the same level of offense, but 65 for 65 is reasonable assuming 75+ games played.

The Sens management team provides good results for non UFA players. I am sure they have got this one figured out as well.

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06-20-2012, 07:39 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by bert View Post
The amount of uneducated Karlsson hate on here is astonishing. I just dont understand it? I always find it confusing when people try to vindicate players on here, the only conclusion I can come to is pure jealousy. So keep it coming!!!

My favorite comment so far 'he is just another mike green' because there are so many of those lying around haha.
I think you are using the word "vindicate" wrong.

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06-20-2012, 07:52 AM
  #440
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Great signing for the Sens.

Worth every bit of that contract now and in the future.

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06-20-2012, 07:56 AM
  #441
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I'd love for people to explain what the "big risk" is or how the Sens "overpaid"

Campbell 7.1
Doughty 7.0
Chara 6.9
J-Bo 6.7
Boyle 6.7
Phaneuf 6.5
Karlsson 6.5
Timmonen 6.3
Seabrok 5.8
Burns 5.8
Keith 5.5
Wisniewski 5.5

You can put Weber/Suter's new contracts above Karlsson for sure. I've ignored guys that will probably retire in the next year or two. So you've got arguably three guys that are better than Karlsson on that list? (Weber, Chara, Doughty - I reserve the right to keep Suter off until we see him play with his new team). One guy who is the same age as Karlsson.

Even if Karlsson takes a massive step back to 50 points. He's still cheaper than Campbell's 53 pts, Boyle's 48, the same as Phaneuf's 44, and slightly more expensive than Timmo's 43, Seabrook's 34, Burns' 37, Keith's 40 and Wis' 27. I'd also take Karlsson defensively over half those guys.

Karlsson's young, not surrounded by that much talent (ie: still has upside) and gets to stay in a system that he's comfortable with. I would say the bigger risk is giving Ryan Suter 7+M to play away from Nashville's defensive juggernaut and Shea Weber's protection.

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06-20-2012, 08:03 AM
  #442
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Originally Posted by ErikKarlsson View Post
What a joke.
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Originally Posted by ErikKarlsson View Post
Its hilarious how many Habs fans in this thread and coming to our board are saying how risky this is and how overpaid Karlsson is going to be. Wait till you guys see how much Subban and Price will be making.
You shouldn't take things so personal. People give their opinion. Mine (can't speak for others) is that it is a huge risk, regardless of what Subban or Price get as it's irrelevant.

If you can't recognize that it's a big risk, that's fine. As I've mentioned in the original post, time will tell if it pays off. I'm hoping it does, not wishing anything bad.

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06-20-2012, 08:09 AM
  #443
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I'm not getting why people are saying the Sens made a mistake. What else are you going to do with a guy that just put up 80 freaking points as a d-man? The last thing I'd want to do is sign him to a short term deal with what's going on in Nashville. Even if you sign him to a short term deal that leaves 1 or 2 years of RFA left there's still that risk that he might start sniffing UFA and change his thoughts on the kind of money he wants. Nobody would have ever thought that both of those 2 could be on the outs in Nashville. If I'm Ottawa, I'm relieved as hell that I've got my franchise player for another 7 years. I like this deal, as a blues fan, and I don't see how Petro's camp could ask for anymore than that when his time comes.

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06-20-2012, 08:13 AM
  #444
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
You shouldn't take things so personal. People give their opinion. Mine (can't speak for others) is that it is a huge risk, regardless of what Subban or Price get as it's irrelevant.

If you can't recognize that it's a big risk, that's fine. As I've mentioned in the original post, time will tell if it pays off. I'm hoping it does, not wishing anything bad.
You are more than entitled to your opinion. But at least explain it. What are the risks?

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06-20-2012, 08:25 AM
  #445
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Originally Posted by JackBauer View Post
I'd love for people to explain what the "big risk" is or how the Sens "overpaid"

Campbell 7.1
Doughty 7.0
Chara 6.9
J-Bo 6.7
Boyle 6.7
Phaneuf 6.5
Karlsson 6.5
Timmonen 6.3
Seabrok 5.8
Burns 5.8
Keith 5.5
Wisniewski 5.5

You can put Weber/Suter's new contracts above Karlsson for sure. I've ignored guys that will probably retire in the next year or two. So you've got arguably three guys that are better than Karlsson on that list? (Weber, Chara, Doughty - I reserve the right to keep Suter off until we see him play with his new team). One guy who is the same age as Karlsson.

Even if Karlsson takes a massive step back to 50 points. He's still cheaper than Campbell's 53 pts, Boyle's 48, the same as Phaneuf's 44, and slightly more expensive than Timmo's 43, Seabrook's 34, Burns' 37, Keith's 40 and Wis' 27. I'd also take Karlsson defensively over half those guys.

Karlsson's young, not surrounded by that much talent (ie: still has upside) and gets to stay in a system that he's comfortable with. I would say the bigger risk is giving Ryan Suter 7+M to play away from Nashville's defensive juggernaut and Shea Weber's protection.
You're comparing him to a lot of bad contracts. Being a better contract than Dion Phaneuf means nothing. This isn't a "steal" or anything like that until he puts up 2 more seasons like this. As of now it's a normal superstar RFA contract. Ryan Suter is a 2 way force. He'll be fine. Karlsson's defense needs to improve. Paul Coffey got traded a lot remember and his teams usually didn't get any worse after doing so.

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06-20-2012, 08:35 AM
  #446
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You are more than entitled to your opinion. But at least explain it. What are the risks?
Fair enough. The guy has been in the league for 3 years. His best season prior to this year was 45 pts and -30. He had a splendid season last year. We know that NHL players have ups and downs. Seven years at a cap hit of $6.5M is comparable to what you give to guys like Lidstrom, Chara... The Rangers have a $6.5M defenseman playing in the minors. Not saying that he will be like Redden, but I find it to be early and risky to give him that length of contract at that amount. Again though, I could be wrong, but time will tell.

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06-20-2012, 08:43 AM
  #447
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Congrats Sens fan!!!!

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06-20-2012, 08:53 AM
  #448
JackBauer
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Fair enough. The guy has been in the league for 3 years. His best season prior to this year was 45 pts and -30. He had a splendid season last year. We know that NHL players have ups and downs. Seven years at a cap hit of $6.5M is comparable to what you give to guys like Lidstrom, Chara... The Rangers have a $6.5M defenseman playing in the minors. Not saying that he will be like Redden, but I find it to be early and risky to give him that length of contract at that amount. Again though, I could be wrong, but time will tell.
He put up 45 points as a 20 yr old. That would have put him top 12 in scoring for a d-man last season. And still more than guys like Phaneuf and Timmonen (not to mention Doughty).

6.5M isn't that much. He's not even in the top 5 for highest paid defensemen, prior to Weber and Suter's new deals, which will be higher. So you are getting a top 5 dman in the league for a contract that is top 10.

If Karlsson's contract is a risk, then would you say Doughty's is as well?

Like I said in my above post, even if he takes a massive, massive step back and starts only putting up 50 points a year, the contract is still cheaper than a handful of other guys that are putting up less points and compares with others who are making slightly less.

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06-20-2012, 08:54 AM
  #449
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Fair enough. The guy has been in the league for 3 years. His best season prior to this year was 45 pts and -30. He had a splendid season last year. We know that NHL players have ups and downs. Seven years at a cap hit of $6.5M is comparable to what you give to guys like Lidstrom, Chara... The Rangers have a $6.5M defenseman playing in the minors. Not saying that he will be like Redden, but I find it to be early and risky to give him that length of contract at that amount. Again though, I could be wrong, but time will tell.
It's not. Those contracts are 5 years old. My guess is a guy like Suter gets 8 and Weber closer to 9 per.

In context: Grabovski gets 5.5 per; Plekanec 5.0 per. I know forwards/defense, but what's the better value, really?

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06-20-2012, 09:01 AM
  #450
JackBauer
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
You're comparing him to a lot of bad contracts. Being a better contract than Dion Phaneuf means nothing. This isn't a "steal" or anything like that until he puts up 2 more seasons like this. As of now it's a normal superstar RFA contract. Ryan Suter is a 2 way force. He'll be fine. Karlsson's defense needs to improve. Paul Coffey got traded a lot remember and his teams usually didn't get any worse after doing so.
I didn't cherry pick contracts. I grabbed the top 10 list from Capgeek and simply ignored guys that are close to retirement (Gonchar, Lubo). Those aren't bad contracts, those are just contracts. Dion Phaneuf's contract is the going rate. Dustin Bfuglien is the going rate. James Wisniesski is the going rate. You think Weber, Suter, Pietro, OEL, Subban are going to get 'steal' contracts that are signficantly better than 6.5M? You can't point to Lidstrom's continual home-town discount and go "well that's the highwater mark for d-men, every contract should be measured by that"

I'm not saying that it's a steal. I'm saying that comparatively, the Sens got a good deal. I'm saying that compared to the going rates, compared to every defenseman in the league except Chara, Weber, and Doughty, I'd pay Karlsson 6.5M than anybody else their respective dollars.

As for Ryan Suter, there's a long list of players that have left town for big money deals and flopped. Redden, Gomez, Briere, Timmone, Drury, J-Bo, Cammy. You could make the argument that Richards, Gaborik, Boyle, and Havlat have disappointed as well. Guys that have succeeded are guys that went to better systems (Chara from Ottawa to Boston, Kovie from Atlanta to NJ). Suter's got it pretty good in Nasvhille. Let's see what happens.. I'll remember this post and we can make a ego-wager.


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