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Does anybody want Matt Carle back?

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Old
06-19-2012, 08:08 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
Carle has a below average shot. True or false?
I think everyone including the Carle fans like myself know his shot is below average.

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06-19-2012, 08:12 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
I think everyone including the Carle fans like myself know his shot is below average.
I wouldn't call myself a Carle fan, but I want him re-signed for anything less than $5 million if that means anything.

I just want VanScriver to say something bad about Carle

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06-19-2012, 08:12 PM
  #128
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For an offensive dman, calling his shot "below average" is an optimistic appraisal. "Bad" is closer to the mark.

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06-19-2012, 08:13 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
Carle has a below average shot. True or false?
Very true. A definite weakness in Carle's game

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06-19-2012, 08:14 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
I wouldn't call myself a Carle fan, but I want him re-signed for anything less than $5 million if that means anything.

I just want VanScriver to say something bad about Carle
Good luck with that!! Carle is what he is. A great compliment D-man to a top pairing guy but when he tries to carry a pairing he will start turning the puck over and try to do too much.

Nvm. He does agree! Then again there is so much Carle hate on these boards you really can't blame him for always trying to stick up for him.

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06-19-2012, 08:15 PM
  #131
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Ok.

Carle is physically weak along the boards and is below average at using his body to shield the puck. True or false?

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06-19-2012, 08:18 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
Ok.

Carle is physically weak along the boards and is below average at using his body to shield the puck. True or false?
I would not call him physically weak along the boards. He's certainly not a physical beast back there. He holds his own in puck battles. He actually is very good at using body position to shield the puck and move it safely. He has to be, as he isn't a big guy for a defenseman

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06-19-2012, 08:50 PM
  #133
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Here's my inexpert list of Carle pros, meh's and cons, if I may:

PROS:
  • Blocking shots (led the team with 164)
  • Passing
MEH:
  • 1-on-1 defensive coverage (my opinion)
  • Puck carrying (generally good except for the team-leading giveaways)
CONS:
  • Giveaways (led the team with 55)
  • Shooting
  • Hitting (55 hits, tying him with Gilbert Brule [33 games], Jeff Halpern [69], Sheldon Souray [64], Marc Staal [46], Steve Staios [65] and Lee Stempniak [61])
  • Defensive-zone positioning (my opinion)
Stats are taken from Frank Seravalli's season stats wrap-up, Carle's TSN page and the NHL stats page.

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06-20-2012, 08:33 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Here's my inexpert list of Carle pros, meh's and cons, if I may:

PROS:
  • Blocking shots (led the team with 164)
  • Passing
MEH:
  • 1-on-1 defensive coverage (my opinion)
  • Puck carrying (generally good except for the team-leading giveaways)
CONS:
  • Giveaways (led the team with 55)
  • Shooting
  • Hitting (55 hits, tying him with Gilbert Brule [33 games], Jeff Halpern [69], Sheldon Souray [64], Marc Staal [46], Steve Staios [65] and Lee Stempniak [61])
  • Defensive-zone positioning (my opinion)
Stats are taken from Frank Seravalli's season stats wrap-up, Carle's TSN page and the NHL stats page.
I actually agree with this list. He's a very good passer and shot blocker, but his 1-on-1 isn't super strong and I can't count the number of times he was out of position in his own zone leading to goals against. I also like, which some would disagree with, him trying going in deep and willing to join the rush. Many D don't so to see him do it is encouraging as long as he does it at the proper times.

I know I've said it before, but I wouldn't mind resigning him to a deal that is under $5 mil for a few seasons. It's the long-term, over priced (self inflicted bid raising) that makes it questionable. The last thing we need is another unmovable, declining player on a long term contract because we were afraid to let him hit the open market.

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06-20-2012, 08:41 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
I actually agree with this list. He's a very good passer and shot blocker, but his 1-on-1 isn't super strong and I can't count the number of times he was out of position in his own zone leading to goals against. I also like, which some would disagree with, him trying going in deep and willing to join the rush. Many D don't so to see him do it is encouraging as long as he does it at the proper times.

I know I've said it before, but I wouldn't mind resigning him to a deal that is under $5 mil for a few seasons. It's the long-term, over priced (self inflicted bid raising) that makes it questionable. The last thing we need is another unmovable, declining player on a long term contract because we were afraid to let him hit the open market.
Carle is very strong positionally in his own zone. The number of shots blocked he racks every Season is strong evidence of his ability to be sound positionally and read plays in the defensive zone.

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06-20-2012, 08:48 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Carle is very strong positionally in his own zone. The number of shots blocked he racks every Season is strong evidence of his ability to be sound positionally and read plays in the defensive zone.
you have a man crush on carle, so that means whatever goals bryz gives up because of his turnovers, it's his fault 100 percent of time? not carle?

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06-20-2012, 09:16 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
you have a man crush on carle, so that means whatever goals bryz gives up because of his turnovers, it's his fault 100 percent of time? not carle?
Nothing to do with a man crush on Carle. It has to do with the facts. If Carle commits all of these turnovers, more then you can count that lead to goals against. Why does he play as much as he does, and why do the Flyers want him back? No one seems to be able to reasonably answer those questions. Why doesn't Holmgren see what some of the fans see? What is he missing? Other questions that no one seems to be able to answer. If only Holmgren, and the credible sources that cover and analyze players, could see what some of the fans see. They must all be incompetent and not capable of seieing the truth.

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06-20-2012, 09:34 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Nothing to do with a man crush on Carle. It has to do with the facts. If Carle commits all of these turnovers, more then you can count that lead to goals against. Why does he play as much as he does, and why do the Flyers want him back? No one seems to be able to reasonably answer those questions. Why doesn't Holmgren see what some of the fans see? What is he missing? Other questions that no one seems to be able to answer. If only Holmgren, and the credible sources that cover and analyze players, could see what some of the fans see. They must all be incompetent and not capable of seieing the truth.
that's a good question that coaching staff and management should answer because he wants jagr back too and he's all washed up, so i dont know what's going through their heads, maybe they are both incompetent, the coach and holmgren.

it doesnt surprise me because he got steve eminger with a first round pick, so he's over his head on bringing carle back because he thinks he's pronger which he's not or maybe they are using him for trade bait, i dont know what he's trying to do, maybe he's getting over his head, so is the coaching staff. he could be turning into ruben amaro. way over his head.

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06-20-2012, 09:48 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
that's a good question that coaching staff and management should answer because he wants jagr back too and he's all washed up, so i dont know what's going through their heads, maybe they are both incompetent, the coach and holmgren.

it doesnt surprise me because he got steve eminger with a first round pick, so he's over his head on bringing carle back because he thinks he's pronger which he's not or maybe they are using him for trade bait, i dont know what he's trying to do, maybe he's getting over his head, so is the coaching staff. he could be turning into ruben amaro. way over his head.
Well there you go. Maybe send Holmgren an E mail, or go to the Skate Zone in Vorhees. Maybe you can set Holmgren and the Coach straight and teach them something. Maybe let Holmgren know that Carle isn't Pronger. Maybe you can save the Season from disaster!

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06-20-2012, 10:52 AM
  #140
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Strange thing about Carle's shot is that he can actually bring it when he wants to...no, I'm serious...Ive seen it the last few years. Every now and then he actually attempts to one time the puck like a man and he hammers it...problem is he rarely does it (goal vs NJ in the playoffs...holy snipe)

...Just to clarify I'm not suggesting he has a Pronger like shot, but he can shoot it when he wants to

....that being said, just about any guy in this league can hammer the puck when they really want to so Idk what my point is

He just always seems to be so concerned with getting it through that he floats something soft that doesn't get through haha

Anyway, he's not here bc of his booming shot, so I don't worry about it, but It'd be nice to see him unload on a few more

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06-20-2012, 11:44 AM
  #141
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He needs to stop with wrist shots from the blue line. When they do get through, it's almost always any easy save for the goalie resulting in a stoppage in play...which often led to the end of our offensive drive, what with our 24th ranked faceoff percentage.

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06-20-2012, 12:00 PM
  #142
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the only thing that makes sense of why they are trying to keep carle is maybe they are using him as trade bit for nash and a defensemen or go after bobby ryan and a defensemen, or to get webber because they are going to lose suter maybe carle and another defensemen like mez will help us get webber

i think that's his plan because he doesnt want to get rid of schenn or courts not unless he's way over head to think carle is the answer for the defensive problems because clearly he's not, if that's the case, bryz is going to have alot of problems, hate him or dont, he needs help, last thing we need to hear that carle is coming back and not fix the defense.

that's just saying screw the cup.

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06-20-2012, 01:26 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
He needs to stop with wrist shots from the blue line. When they do get through, it's almost always any easy save for the goalie resulting in a stoppage in play...which often led to the end of our offensive drive, what with our 24th ranked faceoff percentage.
coburn does that all the time and it drives me nuts...its like he's afraid to have it in the o-zone for too long so he just gets rid of it without thinking.

if there is no one in front dont wrist it from 60 feet, you will never score! (unless we trade bryz )

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06-20-2012, 01:26 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
He needs to stop with wrist shots from the blue line. When they do get through, it's almost always any easy save for the goalie resulting in a stoppage in play...which often led to the end of our offensive drive, what with our 24th ranked faceoff percentage.
No he really shouldn't stop with wrist shots from the point. That's an effective play. Your not really trying to beat the Goalie with that shot. What your looking for is for the forwards to get to the net, provide traffic, for screens, deflections and rebound opportunities. Getting the puck to the net is never a bad play. It's a team game, and you need support from the forwards.

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06-20-2012, 01:35 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
No he really shouldn't stop with wrist shots from the point. That's an effective play. Your not really trying to beat the Goalie with that shot. What your looking for is for the forwards to get to the net, provide traffic, for screens, deflections and rebound opportunities. Getting the puck to the net is never a bad play. It's a team game, and you need support from the forwards.
He does it without screens or when the offense isn't in position to capitalize on anything far too often. He does it ALL the time. Watch how Timonen fishes for deflections; he is good at it. He does it when forwards are either screening the goalie, or are in position to make a play. Carle just heaves it on net first chance he gets regardless of whether or not it's the best thing to do at the time.

Getting the puck on net is not always a good play; it depends on how you do it. Using a slapshot in those situations would be better. Easy unscreened wristers that get gloved or smothered without issue aren't a good play; more often than not they kill offensive chances...those are bad plays. He does it too much, and they pretty much never go in the net. His weak wrist shots from the blue line are too easy for goalies to handle. I've never understood why he rarely uses a slapshot in those situations.

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06-20-2012, 01:47 PM
  #146
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Because his slapshot is horrible.

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06-20-2012, 02:29 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
He does it without screens or when the offense isn't in position to capitalize on anything far too often. He does it ALL the time. Watch how Timonen fishes for deflections; he is good at it. He does it when forwards are either screening the goalie, or are in position to make a play. Carle just heaves it on net first chance he gets regardless of whether or not it's the best thing to do at the time.

Getting the puck on net is not always a good play; it depends on how you do it. Using a slapshot in those situations would be better. Easy unscreened wristers that get gloved or smothered without issue aren't a good play; more often than not they kill offensive chances...those are bad plays. He does it too much, and they pretty much never go in the net. His weak wrist shots from the blue line are too easy for goalies to handle. I've never understood why he rarely uses a slapshot in those situations.
It absolutely is always a good play. Nothing bad happens from getting the puck to the net. Carle uses a slap shot when the time is there to use it. A wrist shot is more accurate, and is a good play. Carle doesn't just heave it on net first chance he gets. He makes smart plays overall. Carle doesn't have a great shot, so a wrister on net is a good play. It's better to put the puck on net if a defenseman is being pressured. The onus is on the forwards to get to the net, not the defenseman. It never really ends with you guys and Carle. It's amazing he's still in the League with all the bad plays he makes.

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06-20-2012, 02:36 PM
  #148
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When your shot is as bad as Carle's, wristing it in from the blue line when it's either never going to get to the net or has no chance of going in isn't the best play. It kills offense because the puck often gets covered or cleared out of the zone.

Maybe it's the best play for Carle due to the flaws in his game, but it's most certainly not what's best for the team.

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06-20-2012, 02:41 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
When your shot is as bad as Carle's, wristing it in from the blue line when it's either never going to get to the net or has no chance of going in isn't the best play. It kills offense because the puck often gets covered or cleared out of the zone.

Maybe it's the best play for Carle due to the flaws in his game, but it's most certainly not what's best for the team.
You know, I am all for Gretzky's mantra of "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take" but man, Carle can manage to hit any freaking shin possible when he is on the point but can't hit the broad side of a barn.

His inability to hit the net is costly and part of his turnover problem. Goes off a nearby shin, opposing team gets the puck and off to the races, 2 + men have to get back. Offensive zone time = reduced because of this.

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06-20-2012, 03:15 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
When your shot is as bad as Carle's, wristing it in from the blue line when it's either never going to get to the net or has no chance of going in isn't the best play. It kills offense because the puck often gets covered or cleared out of the zone.

Maybe it's the best play for Carle due to the flaws in his game, but it's most certainly not what's best for the team.
Your omitting other possibilities of the play, the ones that I mentioned earlier. It doesn't kill offense. An offensive zone draw is a good offensive opportunity. Play the majority of time on the other teams end and most game, you'll come out on top. There is nothing bad that happens from getting the puck to the other team's net.

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