HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012-2013 Roster

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-20-2012, 01:09 AM
  #926
tuckrr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,610
vCash: 500
I love weber and all, but do you guys really think it would make our team better to give up jvr + voracek for him?

The prospect of having those two on wing:
Jvr giroux voracek
Long term, that's insane!

When you consider we have schenn + cooter as well, I'm content to wait a year and pray weber goes to UFA.

Thoughts? I just love our team too much to lose two speedy wingers that are the same age, and play so well together...

tuckrr is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 01:42 AM
  #927
Damaged Goods
Registered User
 
Damaged Goods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
I love weber and all, but do you guys really think it would make our team better to give up jvr + voracek for him?

The prospect of having those two on wing:
Jvr giroux voracek
Long term, that's insane!

When you consider we have schenn + cooter as well, I'm content to wait a year and pray weber goes to UFA.

Thoughts? I just love our team too much to lose two speedy wingers that are the same age, and play so well together...
That's one of the reasons why I'd be interested in a talented stop-gap like Visnovsky.

Damaged Goods is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 01:49 AM
  #928
tuckrr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
That's one of the reasons why I'd be interested in a talented stop-gap like Visnovsky.
I like our team a lot, and I'd like to build on it (veteran D is a must)...I don't want to trade it all away before we have another shot at P/Offs.


WE BEAT ****ING PITTSBURGH.

Why aren't we more stoked?

tuckrr is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 01:51 AM
  #929
JayB
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 397
vCash: 500
i want Nash but also want to wait and see what JRV and Voracek can do future when Briere is out and they get good center.

I want to start season with this, every one else is for sale:

Harts-G-xxx(Nash/Jagr/Kane/Ryan)
Jvr-Briere-Voracek
Schen-Couturier-Simmonds
Rinaldo-xxx/Prospect/Talbot/Trade-Sestosito

Timonen-xxx
Coburn-Grossman
xxx-xxx

Bryz
xxx

JayB is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 01:58 AM
  #930
tryce91
Rookie User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 37
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
I like our team a lot, and I'd like to build on it (veteran D is a must)...I don't want to trade it all away before we have another shot at P/Offs.


WE BEAT ****ING PITTSBURGH.

Why aren't we more stoked?
Because we followed by losing to the Devils

tryce91 is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 02:04 AM
  #931
tuckrr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tryce91 View Post
Because we followed by losing to the Devils
BUT WE ****ING BEAT PITTSBURGH!

We could never do that with Richards & carter.

tuckrr is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 02:46 AM
  #932
PhilaFlyers
Registered User
 
PhilaFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 8,592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
BUT WE ****ING BEAT PITTSBURGH!

We could never do that with Richards & carter.
Yeah... but we just got completely dominated by NJ, it was real bad.

PhilaFlyers is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 06:45 AM
  #933
VanSciver
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
In all likelihood it wouldn't happen. If he was paired with a stud of all studs, then maybe. The odds of that are less than 1%.
That's a completely arbitrary number that is totally fabricated by you. And quite frankly is ridiculous, if not down right laughable. By your logic the Flyers can't win the Cup with Giroux, because it hasn't happened yet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post

Of course it takes two to tango. No one plucks players off of other teams rosters. Players on teams in playoff runs is obvious and a given. No need to mention every possible scenario under the sun.
Why because out points out that your wrong? But you had no issue mentioning the scenarios that you thought proved your point. Well it seems you overlooked some things.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Sorry, but he is easy to replace. The Flyers defense isn't going to crumble to nothing all because Matt Carle leaves. Has the guy even made an all star team in his illustrious career?

If teams can replace HOF defensemen, Matt Carle can easily be replaced.
Again, there is a difference between possible, and easy to. Ask any NHL exec, ask any credible source covering an NHL team if top 4 NHL defenseman are easy to replace. You'll find out how wrong you are.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Yes probably others. It doesn't matter how many teams are looking for defense. If anything the Flyers with their youth up front are probably in one of the best positions to acquire a 2nd pairing guy to replace Carle.

On that note, let me add to my position on replacing Carle. Replacing Matt Carle via trade should be easier for the Flyers than most teams in the NHL due to their depth up front.

There, that sounds better.
Just because you have assets up front to deal with, doesn't mean teams are eager to give away their quality defenseman. Again, more unsound logic on your part.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
You would have to ask a few GM's to get a close to accurate count on how many teams are looking for defensemen and how many are discussed during this week. My guess would be at least one, and up to as many as 10.
I'm sure Claude Giroux's name comes up in discussions also. Doesn't mean he's available. Again, you lack the understanding of the difference between discussing a player, and obtaining a player. Most teams will listen to any offer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
If players better than Carle have been replaced time and time again, it's easy to replace him. History proves that.
More unsound logic. Teams have won the Stanley Cup time and again. There's one every year. Doesn't mean it's easy. How you can think that because something happens, means that it's easy is beyond me. If it's easy to replace, why would teams pay a premium either in salary, or in assets to acquire a top 4 defenseman? If it's so easy to acquire one?



Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
History tells me that teams have replaced players of higher caliber than Matt Carle, and done it rather easily. Pick up the phone and talk to other GM's or submit an offer to a UFA. Real hard tasks there.
So all you have to do is pick up the phone huh? With every reply, your opinion becomes less and less credible. Just dial the phone or submit an offer. So who cares if you lose a top 4 defenseman. There's an endless supply that is easy to get? Laughable

VanSciver is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 09:58 AM
  #934
jd2210
Registered Non User
 
jd2210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Great White North
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,569
vCash: 500
This may have been mentioned here or elsewhere but Voracek, MAB, Tostito, Holmstrom and Harry Z were all qualified.

jd2210 is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 10:13 AM
  #935
DrinkFightFlyers
Provolone & The Neck
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 14,513
vCash: 470
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd2210 View Post
This may have been mentioned here or elsewhere but Voracek, MAB, Tostito, Holmstrom and Harry Z were all qualified.
To be expected. Wouldn't surprise me to see one or two of those guys dealt for picks (not including Voracek, but I wouldn't rule that out). I am pulling for Sestito to be an NHL regular next season. I'm a big fan. I think he do Rinaldo's job better than Rinaldo.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 10:15 AM
  #936
Protest
C`est La Vie
 
Protest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Deptford, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,789
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
I like our team a lot, and I'd like to build on it (veteran D is a must)...I don't want to trade it all away before we have another shot at P/Offs.


WE BEAT ****ING PITTSBURGH.

Why aren't we more stoked?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
BUT WE ****ING BEAT PITTSBURGH!

We could never do that with Richards & carter.
I forgot that was the ultimate goal.

Protest is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 10:20 AM
  #937
Amateur Hour
Registered User
 
Amateur Hour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Negadelphia
Posts: 6,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
I like our team a lot, and I'd like to build on it (veteran D is a must)...I don't want to trade it all away before we have another shot at P/Offs.


WE BEAT ****ING PITTSBURGH.

Why aren't we more stoked?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
BUT WE ****ING BEAT PITTSBURGH!

We could never do that with Richards & carter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
I forgot that was the ultimate goal.
This is precisely why Penguins fans made fun of us -- and rightly so -- after folding against the Devils. The way the Flyers played the next round, you'd think beating the Penguins was this team's Stanley Cup. Apparently, it's the same way for some fans. Classic loser talk, and so ****ing Philadelphia.

Amateur Hour is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 11:23 AM
  #938
35NW8ING
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
35NW8ING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
That's a completely arbitrary number that is totally fabricated by you. And quite frankly is ridiculous, if not down right laughable. By your logic the Flyers can't win the Cup with Giroux, because it hasn't happened yet.
Winning the cup with Giroux is a completley diffrent subject. That's your topic, not mine. It has nothing to do with this discussion. Talk about that in another thread with someone else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Why because out points out that your wrong? But you had no issue mentioning the scenarios that you thought proved your point. Well it seems you overlooked some things.
Not at all.



Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Again, there is a difference between possible, and easy to. Ask any NHL exec, ask any credible source covering an NHL team if top 4 NHL defenseman are easy to replace. You'll find out how wrong you are.
For the fourth time, you need to let go of the word easy. Bottom line, I think its easy
to replace a 2nd pairing guy like Carle, you think it isn't easy. A difference of semantics.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Just because you have assets up front to deal with, doesn't mean teams are eager to give away their quality defenseman. Again, more unsound logic on your part.
If they need your assets bad enough, and the trade helps weaknesses on both teams, a deal gets done.



Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
I'm sure Claude Giroux's name comes up in discussions also. Doesn't mean he's available. Again, you lack the understanding of the difference between discussing a player, and obtaining a player. Most teams will listen to any offer.
If Wayne Gretzky can be traded, anyone can for the right price. I guess you knew all along that the next Bobby Clarke (Richards) would be traded.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
More unsound logic. Teams have won the Stanley Cup time and again. There's one every year. Doesn't mean it's easy.
I've never stated anything about a degree of difficulty in winning the cup. Another wide turn by you, introducing another irrelevant topic to the discussion about replacing Carle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
If it's easy to replace, why would teams pay a premium either in salary, or in assets to acquire a top 4 defenseman? If it's so easy to acquire one?
Because that's usually how trades work, give up something to get something. If you go the UFA route, it costs money, and if you try the RFA route it costs money and picks. There is always a cost associated with acquiring a player.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
How you can think that because something happens, means that it's easy is beyond me.
Those are your words not mine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
So all you have to do is pick up the phone huh? With every reply, your opinion becomes less and less credible. Just dial the phone or submit an offer.
Yes, pick up the phone, kick some tires, and try to make a deal. That's how trade talks usually begin. Same for UFA's and RFA's. Call the agent, discuss parameters, and submit your offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
So who cares if you lose a top 4 defenseman. There's an endless supply that is easy to get? Laughable
If you are a GM trying to improve up front, you may have to part with one of your top 4 defensemen. Definitely a possible scenario if the other team is looking for a defenseman.

Conversely, like the Flyers, if you are looking to obtain a top 4 defenseman, you may have to part with something up front if the other team is looking for forwards.

35NW8ING is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 11:25 AM
  #939
35NW8ING
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
35NW8ING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
To be expected. Wouldn't surprise me to see one or two of those guys dealt for picks (not including Voracek, but I wouldn't rule that out). I am pulling for Sestito to be an NHL regular next season. I'm a big fan. I think he do Rinaldo's job better than Rinaldo.
Yes, would love to see Sestito in place of Rinaldo next year.

35NW8ING is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 11:49 AM
  #940
GoneFullHextall
RIP Andy B.
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 36,320
vCash: 50
Sestito sucks.

GoneFullHextall is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 11:56 AM
  #941
flyersfan187
Registered User
 
flyersfan187's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morrisdale, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,880
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to flyersfan187 Send a message via Skype™ to flyersfan187
Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Yes, would love to see Sestito in place of Rinaldo next year.
Same here. Watching him play against the Rangers this season was a fun site to see!

flyersfan187 is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 11:58 AM
  #942
GoneFullHextall
RIP Andy B.
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 36,320
vCash: 50
Sestito means no running out 4 lines. Which means they arent as effective as they need to be with this forward group.

GoneFullHextall is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 12:16 PM
  #943
flyersfan187
Registered User
 
flyersfan187's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morrisdale, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,880
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to flyersfan187 Send a message via Skype™ to flyersfan187
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Sestito means no running out 4 lines. Which means they arent as effective as they need to be with this forward group.
I thought he played pretty well for us. He certainly isn't no Shelley in terms of ability.

flyersfan187 is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 12:21 PM
  #944
BrindamoursNose
Registered User
 
BrindamoursNose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,096
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Sestito means no running out 4 lines. Which means they arent as effective as they need to be with this forward group.
Sestito isn't so bad. He's no great player, but he also is better than a Cote/Shelley

BrindamoursNose is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 12:24 PM
  #945
DrinkFightFlyers
Provolone & The Neck
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 14,513
vCash: 470
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Sestito means no running out 4 lines. Which means they arent as effective as they need to be with this forward group.
Meh, we don't even know what the team is going to look like next season. I see no reason that a Sestito-Talbot-Wellwood line couldn't play a solid fourth line. Sestito isn't going to score a ton of goals, but he isn't Jody Shelley. He can play regular fourth line minutes. The Flyers looked fine with Rinaldo in the lineup and as I said, I think Sestito is a better all around player than Rinaldo (and I'm actually a big Rinaldo fan).

DrinkFightFlyers is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 12:38 PM
  #946
Spongolium*
Potato Magician
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bridgend,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 8,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Sestito means no running out 4 lines. Which means they arent as effective as they need to be with this forward group.
and yet against Boston, who were arguably one of the best inform teams, he played a good deal and make a complete havok of the boston defense.

Your disgust with Sestito and Rinaldo is pathetic.

Spongolium* is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 12:42 PM
  #947
lancer247
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,243
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Sestito means no running out 4 lines. Which means they arent as effective as they need to be with this forward group.
That's not necessarily true at all. I don't know what you base your opinion of Sestito off of but is certainly a strong skater, big, physical and showed ability to finish in his stint with CLB and in the minors. I don't think he will be a great player but I certainly can see him being similar to Matt Martin, Nolan, or Jackman.

Sestito was effective in games he played just by punishing d men on the forecheck which is what this team lacks, the ability to wear down another team. I thought the game he played a really good against DAL and BOS in particular. The BOS he basically set the tone that they weren't gonna come in and push the Flyers around like the previous meeting by going punch for punch with Lucic and later knocking Horton out of the game with a clean check.

lancer247 is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 12:47 PM
  #948
VanSciver
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Winning the cup with Giroux is a completley diffrent subject. That's your topic, not mine. It has nothing to do with this discussion. Talk about that in another thread with someone else.
It's got everything to do with the discussion. As you said since they haven't won a Cup with Carle on a top pairing, until they do. It's a fact that they can't. Why is the standard different for another player?



Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post

Those are your words not mine.

Yes they are your words. It's in black and white right here.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...126839&page=37

"Until it happens, it remains a fact."

"It is a fact because they didn't win a cup with that first pairing. "

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post

Not at all.

For the fourth time, you need to let go of the word easy. Bottom line, I think its easy
to replace a 2nd pairing guy like Carle, you think it isn't easy. A difference of semantics.

If they need your assets bad enough, and the trade helps weaknesses on both teams, a deal gets done.

If Wayne Gretzky can be traded, anyone can for the right price. I guess you knew all along that the next Bobby Clarke (Richards) would be traded.


I've never stated anything about a degree of difficulty in winning the cup. Another wide turn by you, introducing another irrelevant topic to the discussion about replacing Carle.

Because that's usually how trades work, give up something to get something. If you go the UFA route, it costs money, and if you try the RFA route it costs money and picks. There is always a cost associated with acquiring a player.


Yes, pick up the phone, kick some tires, and try to make a deal. That's how trade talks usually begin. Same for UFA's and RFA's. Call the agent, discuss parameters, and submit your offer.


If you are a GM trying to improve up front, you may have to part with one of your top 4 defensemen. Definitely a possible scenario if the other team is looking for a defenseman.

Conversely, like the Flyers, if you are looking to obtain a top 4 defenseman, you may have to part with something up front if the other team is looking for forwards.
No it's not semantics. The entire debate is about whether it is easy to replace a player like Carle. Easy is the key to the entire debate. Now your moving away from that and trying to debate that it is possible to replace a player like Carle. And your doing that because it's obvious how wrong you are. Every statement you've made here is giving an example of how it's possible. None of it fits the debate.

Take the statement that if Gretzky can be traded anyone can. That is not the debate. But I'm making wide turns! LOL

The debate is whether it is EASY to replace a top 4 defenseman, not whether or not it is possible.

And the fact is that your statement of it is easy to replace a player like Carle, is simply wrong. It is not easy to replace any top 4 quality defenseman. It is certainly possible, but it is not easy.

VanSciver is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 03:00 PM
  #949
35NW8ING
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
35NW8ING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
It's got everything to do with the discussion. As you said since they haven't won a Cup with Carle on a top pairing, until they do. It's a fact that they can't. Why is the standard different for another player?





Yes they are your words. It's in black and white right here.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...126839&page=37

"Until it happens, it remains a fact."

"It is a fact because they didn't win a cup with that first pairing. "



No it's not semantics. The entire debate is about whether it is easy to replace a player like Carle. Easy is the key to the entire debate. Now your moving away from that and trying to debate that it is possible to replace a player like Carle. And your doing that because it's obvious how wrong you are. Every statement you've made here is giving an example of how it's possible. None of it fits the debate.

Take the statement that if Gretzky can be traded anyone can. That is not the debate. But I'm making wide turns! LOL

The debate is whether it is EASY to replace a top 4 defenseman, not whether or not it is possible.

And the fact is that your statement of it is easy to replace a player like Carle, is simply wrong. It is not easy to replace any top 4 quality defenseman. It is certainly possible, but it is not easy.
Oh, now you're back to semantics with the word easy again. It's easy because teams have done it time and time again. As I said earlier, it should be even easier for the Flyers to replace Carle because of their depth up front. If they have the assets to acquire a player like Nash, they most certainly have enough assets to obtain a Carle replacement.

Homer isn't having sleepless nights over replacing Matt Carle.

35NW8ING is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 03:05 PM
  #950
35NW8ING
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
35NW8ING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
and yet against Boston, who were arguably one of the best inform teams, he played a good deal and make a complete havok of the boston defense.

Your disgust with Sestito and Rinaldo is pathetic.
I prefer Sestito because of his size and the fact that he doesn't walk on the edge of that proverbial line. I think over the course of a full season he will take far less stupid penalties than Rinaldo. He should be given more latitude by the refs which is something Rinaldo doesn't seem to ever receive.

35NW8ING is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:59 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.