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Offseason Thread 2012 II: Offseason Harder

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Old
06-20-2012, 01:29 PM
  #751
Reaper1097
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Bobby Ryan

first off, this should go without saying but Shea weber should be the #1 target for the flyers this offseason (or next offseason) and it isnt even close.

But lets assume that weber is not possible does JVR, Bobrovsky, and #20 overall get you Bobby Ryan?

If so, would you do it?

I have been in favor of going after nash if weber is a no go but I actually think ryan fits better with the flyers than nash does both in terms of skill set and salary cap.

I think Giroux-Ryan combo for the next few seasons would be awesome to watch...

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06-20-2012, 01:35 PM
  #752
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That's a vast overpayment for what Ryan brings to the table, as much as I love his game. Bill Meltzer actually just posted a blog about the same concept and summed it up quite nicely IMO: anything beyond a straight up JVR for Ryan deal runs the risk of being an overpayment. While Ryan is a solid 30 goal guy, he's essentially what JVR looks to be in the next year or two (I know, he hasn't proven ****, he's a bum, etc). While the difference in price is less than 1 million on the cap hit, clearly Ryan is the more valuable player at this time. The difference, however, isn't Bob AND a first.

I'd start with JVR and a second. If it came down to it, I'd offer to add Bourdon or Wellwood/Harry Z to sweeten the pot a tad more, but that's about as far as I would go.

For the record, I'd prefer we went after Ryan than Nash, assuming Homer is deadset on a big bodied winger...

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06-20-2012, 01:46 PM
  #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DickTony View Post
That's a vast overpayment for what Ryan brings to the table, as much as I love his game. Bill Meltzer actually just posted a blog about the same concept and summed it up quite nicely IMO: anything beyond a straight up JVR for Ryan deal runs the risk of being an overpayment. While Ryan is a solid 30 goal guy, he's essentially what JVR looks to be in the next year or two (I know, he hasn't proven ****, he's a bum, etc). While the difference in price is less than 1 million on the cap hit, clearly Ryan is the more valuable player at this time. The difference, however, isn't Bob AND a first.

I'd start with JVR and a second. If it came down to it, I'd offer to add Bourdon or Wellwood/Harry Z to sweeten the pot a tad more, but that's about as far as I would go.

For the record, I'd prefer we went after Ryan than Nash, assuming Homer is deadset on a big bodied winger...
I don't know about that. I'd say its at least close. Ryan is better than JVR so you're going to have to offer more than that. Bob is essentially a throw in and likely wouldn't even be a part of the deal because ANA doesn't really need him. I know everyone thinks Bob is going to bring some great return because he had a good first 50 games of is career, but he isn't. If they got a second for him, I'd consider it a smashing success. If they can use him to sweeten a deal for a guy like Ryan, throw him in, but I doubt they have any interest. That being said, I probably would not do this trade, but not because the value is an overpayment. I've said for a while there is no need to trade JvR. If we can use him to get a super-star like Nash or to get a top end defender, then go ahead. But if not, I'd hold on to him.

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Old
06-20-2012, 01:52 PM
  #754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I don't know about that. I'd say its at least close. Ryan is better than JVR so you're going to have to offer more than that. Bob is essentially a throw in and likely wouldn't even be a part of the deal because ANA doesn't really need him. I know everyone thinks Bob is going to bring some great return because he had a good first 50 games of is career, but he isn't. If they got a second for him, I'd consider it a smashing success. If they can use him to sweeten a deal for a guy like Ryan, throw him in, but I doubt they have any interest. That being said, I probably would not do this trade, but not because the value is an overpayment. I've said for a while there is no need to trade JvR. If we can use him to get a super-star like Nash or to get a top end defender, then go ahead. But if not, I'd hold on to him.
Don't underestimate the possibility of a Bobrovsky / Bobkov goaltending tandem.

I like Meltzer, a lot. But asking for JVR + for Ryan is not a king's ransom. It isn't really close.

As I said yesterday, I think the Flyers and Ducks line up quite nicely for a major deal, but it is really hard to come up with a "fair" offer for just Ryan because any two of our young assets is an overpayment.

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06-20-2012, 02:00 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'd offer sheet Weber. I didn't think we had the pics do so so I never brought it up, but if we have the picks and he signs a long-termer here in Philly, that would be pretty solid. I have to imagine that the Preds match any offer though.
If the Panthers chose this year's 2nd vs next year's I think they still have the picks.

EDIT: Wrong on the above, it has nothing to do with it. Flyers do have the picks.

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Old
06-20-2012, 03:09 PM
  #756
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If the Flyers can't sign Carle or Suter or trade for Weber I think they might sign Filip Kuba. Kuba was a +26 mostly paired with Erik Karlsson. He even put up 32 points averaging over 23 minutes. He would be a nice replacement for Carle on the powerplay, and a potentially valuable mentor to Bourdon or Gustafsson on such a pairing.

He is 35 coming off a 3 year, 3.7 per deal. He might want $12m over 3 years. I think the Flyers would be willing to do $8 over 2.

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06-20-2012, 03:21 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by nuclear reactor View Post
If the Flyers can't sign Carle or Suter or trade for Weber I think they might sign Filip Kuba. Kuba was a +26 mostly paired with Erik Karlsson. He even put up 32 points averaging over 23 minutes. He would be a nice replacement for Carle on the powerplay, and a potentially valuable mentor to Bourdon or Gustafsson on such a pairing.

He is 35 coming off a 3 year, 3.7 per deal. He might want $12m over 3 years. I think the Flyers would be willing to do $8 over 2.
I'd be in on Kuba if he doesn't want a long term deal or a ton of money. Because of his age I doubt he gets $4 million over multiple years. He's good but not that good. Signing him to a multi-year deal at $4 million is a bit risky.

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Old
06-20-2012, 03:23 PM
  #758
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Need less 35+ contracts

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06-20-2012, 03:29 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Need less 35+ contracts
Meh, like most things around here, 35+ contracts are overreacted to. Signing Kuba to a four year $16 million dollar deal is a bad idea. Signing him a two or three year deal at a lower cap hit is not a big deal. I don't know what his health situation is, but assuming he has no lingering injuries I'd be comfortable with a guy like him on a 35+ deal. Again, a ten year deal would be stupid. But if he can play, his 35+ contract status is irrelevant because he isn't getting sent down if he can play. They guy can still play.

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06-20-2012, 03:38 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Meh, like most things around here, 35+ contracts are overreacted to. Signing Kuba to a four year $16 million dollar deal is a bad idea. Signing him a two or three year deal at a lower cap hit is not a big deal. I don't know what his health situation is, but assuming he has no lingering injuries I'd be comfortable with a guy like him on a 35+ deal. Again, a ten year deal would be stupid. But if he can play, his 35+ contract status is irrelevant because he isn't getting sent down if he can play. They guy can still play.
The problem is at his age he could hit the wall. Look at Kubina's rapid decline. Kuba is a year older than Kubina and actually looks to be in his decline as well. He also has been injured. A two year deal is not very bright, a 3 year deal is a fool's bet.

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Old
06-20-2012, 03:42 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
first off, this should go without saying but Shea weber should be the #1 target for the flyers this offseason (or next offseason) and it isnt even close.

But lets assume that weber is not possible does JVR, Bobrovsky, and #20 overall get you Bobby Ryan?

If so, would you do it?


I have been in favor of going after nash if weber is a no go but I actually think ryan fits better with the flyers than nash does both in terms of skill set and salary cap.

I think Giroux-Ryan combo for the next few seasons would be awesome to watch...
No.

Bobby Ryan is a 30+ goal, 60ish point forward on one of the better lines in hockey. I'd rather keep Jvr than have to add to him to get Ryan. He isn't Kovalchuk, he's Jeff Carter with more moves but without the big year, or the defensive game. Jvr should be Ryan next year.

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06-20-2012, 03:45 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
The problem is at his age he could hit the wall. Look at Kubina's rapid decline. Kuba is a year older than Kubina and actually looks to be in his decline as well. He also has been injured. A two year deal is not very bright, a 3 year deal is a fool's bet.
That's why I'm not suggesting we sign him to a long term deal with a big cap hit. Also, I said that if he has lingering injuries or anything like that it is not a good idea. My basic gist was that if he can play, I have no problem signing him to a 35+ contract, even for 2-3 years if the cap hit is right. But if he is in rapid decline and injured, then obviously it is not a good deal.

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Old
06-20-2012, 03:56 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by nuclear reactor View Post
If the Flyers can't sign Carle or Suter or trade for Weber I think they might sign Filip Kuba. Kuba was a +26 mostly paired with Erik Karlsson. He even put up 32 points averaging over 23 minutes. He would be a nice replacement for Carle on the powerplay, and a potentially valuable mentor to Bourdon or Gustafsson on such a pairing.

He is 35 coming off a 3 year, 3.7 per deal. He might want $12m over 3 years. I think the Flyers would be willing to do $8 over 2.
I'd rather just sign Sami Salo, honestly. He'd be a good fit here and will cost a lot less (let's say 2 years/$5-5.5M).

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06-20-2012, 03:58 PM
  #764
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Two things here:

I would absolutely trade JVR + Bobrovsky for Ryan, adding the 20th overall is steep maybe Anaheim sends back a 2nd rounder (not that Holmgren would know what to do with it).

Second, I want nothing to do with Kuba, I would rather them overpay Carle than sign Kuba.

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Old
06-20-2012, 04:14 PM
  #765
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I don't understand anyone trading JVR++ for Ryan.

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06-20-2012, 04:27 PM
  #766
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Curious, would E. Kane be easier to get than Ryan?

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Old
06-20-2012, 04:29 PM
  #767
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Curious, would E. Kane be easier to get than Ryan?
Definitely not.

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06-20-2012, 04:29 PM
  #768
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Definitely not.
Because of age probably?

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Old
06-20-2012, 04:58 PM
  #769
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So aside from the blockbuster big splashes lets talk about a position that we need to address What are the general thoughts and consensus of Jason Garrison? I've heard his name thrown around but I really didn't watch any of the Panthers this year so I don't know too much about him. Is he the type of defensemen the Flyers should be throwing some money at?

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Old
06-20-2012, 05:06 PM
  #770
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Garrison will be heading to Vancouver, most likely. Canucks have shown interest and Garrison has stated he would love to play for them as he's from White Rock.


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06-20-2012, 05:30 PM
  #771
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I think Garrison will flame out after getting paid (as Wiz did last year). He seemed to benefit from Campbell on the PP, where he got most of his goals.

He will likely be more expensive than Carle as well.

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Old
06-20-2012, 06:09 PM
  #772
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I think Garrison will flame out after getting paid (as Wiz did last year). He seemed to benefit from Campbell on the PP, where he got most of his goals.

He will likely be more expensive than Carle as well.
See I could see Garrison coming in lower than Carle because he has a smaller track record. He is the same age as Carle and hasn't even topped 200 games in the NHL yet and only really impressed last season. He's due for a big raise (probably somewhere between $3-$4 million if you ask me) but I don't think he'll bring in more than Carle. I've been wrong before though...

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Old
06-20-2012, 06:27 PM
  #773
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
See I could see Garrison coming in lower than Carle because he has a smaller track record. He is the same age as Carle and hasn't even topped 200 games in the NHL yet and only really impressed last season. He's due for a big raise (probably somewhere between $3-$4 million if you ask me) but I don't think he'll bring in more than Carle. I've been wrong before though...
Dreger floated the prospect of a 5/ $25 million for Garrison.

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Old
06-20-2012, 07:27 PM
  #774
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Dreger floated the prospect of a 5/ $25 million for Garrison.
Damn. I really didn't think he would get that much because of yet he is a "one-hit wonder." So to speak. I think he's good, but if I'm a GM I'd be hesitant to spend that much on a guy who has only had one real good season, is 27, and doesn't really have that first-round type of pedigree. I'm not saying he won't turn out to be worth it, I'd just be a little hesitant.

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06-20-2012, 07:41 PM
  #775
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Yeah. I wouldn't want Garrison for more than $4mil. Even then I'd be hesitant just 'cause he's fairly unproven. Kinda like Leino last year commanding as much $$$ as he did.

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