Oh, now you're back to semantics with the word easy again. It's easy because teams have done it time and time again. As I said earlier, it should be even easier for the Flyers to replace Carle because of their depth up front. If they have the assets to acquire a player like Nash, they most certainly have enough assets to obtain a Carle replacement.
Homer isn't having sleepless nights over replacing Matt Carle.
Your hung on the mistaken belief that if something can be done, that means it easy to do. That is a false belief on your part.
Nothing to do with semantics. It has to do with your words and your statement that players like Carle are easily replaced. That is incorrect. It is not easy. Here are your exact words that I replied to. Man up to the statement you made, and don't dance around it.
Your hung on the mistaken belief that if something can be done, that means it easy to do. That is a false belief on your part.
No. You are hung up on thinking, and incorrectly implying, that because I think Carle is easily replaceable, everything else that can be done, is easy as well.
The only thing I've ever said is easy, which I then realized is even easier than I first thought, is replacing Carle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver
Nothing to do with semantics. It has to do with your words and your statement that players like Carle are easily replaced. That is incorrect. It is not easy. Here are your exact words that I replied to. Man up to the statement you made, and don't dance around it.
"I won't say guys like him grow on trees, but they become expendable and are easily replaced via FA most years or via trade most of the time."
Correct, I said it. I'll say it again too. Guys like Matt Carle are easily replaced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver
And your right Holmgren isn't having sleepless nights over having to replace Carle. Because of right now, the plan is to re-sign Carle.
Homer thinks a deal could get done. You and I have no idea what the actual plan is. It's foolish to think it couldn't have changed, or might change again, especially in the week leading up to the draft unless you believe his plan is already finalized and etched in stone.
I prefer Sestito because of his size and the fact that he doesn't walk on the edge of that proverbial line. I think over the course of a full season he will take far less stupid penalties than Rinaldo. He should be given more latitude by the refs which is something Rinaldo doesn't seem to ever receive.
I'm one of the few who actually likes both Rinaldo and Sesito. I really like Rinaldos energy and hits and I think Sesito is a far smarter player than he gets credit for. With that said I'd like to see only one out there on any given night. rinaldo has a longway to go yet with maturity, but boy has he grown up a lot in the last few years. Some of his junior stuff was REALLY embarassing. It's Shelly I'd like to see go. Even with a higher cap I just don't see what he brings to the table. He makes the 4th line a 4 minute a game line. The other two IMO don't. Meltzer hinted last month that if Sesito is resigned it maight mean the end for Shelly. I kind of agree. Last year the battle seemed to be between Shelly and Sesito in the offseason and it really wasn't till camp that Rinaldo made his way into the mix. Now we head in knowing Rinaldos place with the team so it might be a different story.
No. You are hung up on thinking, and incorrectly implying, that because I think Carle is easily replaceable, everything else that can be done, is easy as well.
The only thing I've ever said is easy, which I then realized is even easier than I first thought, is replacing Carle.
I never said that everything else that can be done is easy as well. So now you admit that you think replacing a player like Carle is easy? Good because that is a foolish opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING
Correct, I said it. I'll say it again too. Guys like Matt Carle are easily replaced.
Yes I know you said it. And you're wrong
Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING
Homer thinks a deal could get done. You and I have no idea what the actual plan is. It's foolish to think it couldn't have changed, or might change again, especially in the week leading up to the draft unless you believe his plan is already finalized and etched in stone.
Obviously that's why I said as of right now. Yes, it could change. Carle is not a guarantee to be coming back. The odds are good, but it's not definite.
I'm one of the few who actually likes both Rinaldo and Sesito. I really like Rinaldos energy and hits and I think Sesito is a far smarter player than he gets credit for. With that said I'd like to see only one out there on any given night. rinaldo has a longway to go yet with maturity, but boy has he grown up a lot in the last few years. Some of his junior stuff was REALLY embarassing. It's Shelly I'd like to see go. Even with a higher cap I just don't see what he brings to the table. He makes the 4th line a 4 minute a game line. The other two IMO don't. Meltzer hinted last month that if Sesito is resigned it maight mean the end for Shelly. I kind of agree. Last year the battle seemed to be between Shelly and Sesito in the offseason and it really wasn't till camp that Rinaldo made his way into the mix. Now we head in knowing Rinaldos place with the team so it might be a different story.
Rinaldo might not make it a 4 minute line, but he still won't see more than 7 minutes a close game. I really wish they'd let him play another year in the AHL and focus on developing a more defensively responsible game. If he could do that, I'd love to have him on the 4th line. Right now though, all he can do is run around, hit people, and get reputation penalties.
Rinaldo might not make it a 4 minute line, but he still won't see more than 7 minutes a close game. I really wish they'd let him play another year in the AHL and focus on developing a more defensively responsible game. If he could do that, I'd love to have him on the 4th line. Right now though, all he can do is run around, hit people, and get reputation penalties.
I don't disagree with that, BUT a 7 minute 4th line with the other 2 guys on the line picking up special teams situations works for me.
I never said that everything else that can be done is easy as well. So now you admit that you think replacing a player like Carle is easy? Good because that is a foolish opinion.
Admit it now? I've said it over and over and over. It is easy to replace Matt Carle. I further clarified it several post back when I said guys like him don't grow on trees, but are easily replaceable.
Guys who grow on trees would be even easier to replace.
History proves that replacing players at Carle's level with an equal and in some cases an even better player is rather easy. A simple example of this would be Boston when they signed Chara.
Lets see how easy that was.
1) Call agent and discuss possibility of player coming to Boston
2) Prepare a SPC
3) Fax the offer to the agent
4) Offer accepted
5) Hold press conference to introduce player
6) Hand player jersey to put on
What a difficult task that was. I could spend hours showing other examples but that would only bolster the fact that these things are easily done.
It appears you two are talking about two different things. VanSciver seems to be saying the task of finding a player of Carle's caliber (or better) to sign in Philadelphia is not easy, which I would agree with. 35NW8ING seems to be saying that the act of a person signing a contract is easy, which I also agree with. But those are not the same things.
It appears you two are talking about two different things. VanSciver seems to be saying the task of finding a player of Carle's caliber (or better) to sign in Philadelphia is not easy, which I would agree with. 35NW8ING seems to be saying that the act of a person signing a contract is easy, which I also agree with. But those are not the same things.
That's just the direction that 35NW8ING is trying to take it in to deflect away from the real issue. First he tried to change his statement to it being possible to replace a top 4 defenseman, instead of easy. And after that was unsuccessful, now he's taking it to talking about the logisitics of signing a player. Which is just plain stupid.
OK guys, can we take the Carle discussion into the Carle thread? From here on out I'll move Carle posts into that thread, because this thread has become thoroughly derailed. However, it's easier if you guys just move over to that thread. Thanks!
Edit: Though really, it looks like neither of you has much left to debate anyways. I think you've both thoroughly exhausted every possible point, as evidenced by the step-by-step process for signing a player.
__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
OK guys, can we take the Carle discussion into the Carle thread? From here on out I'll move Carle posts into that thread, because this thread has become thoroughly derailed. However, it's easier if you guys just move over to that thread. Thanks!
Edit: Though really, it looks like neither of you has much left to debate anyways. I think you've both thoroughly exhausted every possible point, as evidenced by the step-by-step process for signing a player.
Agreed. No problem. But I'm really done with this.
This is precisely why Penguins fans made fun of us -- and rightly so -- after folding against the Devils. The way the Flyers played the next round, you'd think beating the Penguins was this team's Stanley Cup. Apparently, it's the same way for some fans. Classic loser talk, and so ****ing Philadelphia.
Our team is insanely young, and lost its captain. Its not exactly "loser talk" to be proud that we beat our division rival (who has completely spanked us the last since they drafted two franchise players)
And NJ was a very good team this year, they went to the SCF.
In contrast, many of our players have never been to the playoffs (including all of our rookies) what did you expect to happen after the 1st round?
I'm stoked about the potential we have here, bugger off.
Our team is insanely young, and lost its captain. Its not exactly "loser talk" to be proud that we beat our division rival (who has completely spanked us the last since they drafted two franchise players)
And NJ was a very good team this year, they went to the SCF.
In contrast, many of our players have never been to the playoffs (including all of our rookies) what did you expect to happen after the 1st round?
I'm stoked about the potential we have here, bugger off.
If the Fleury we usually encounter in the playoffs had shown up that series easily could have gone differently.
Our team is insanely young, and lost its captain. Its not exactly "loser talk" to be proud that we beat our division rival (who has completely spanked us the last since they drafted two franchise players)
And NJ was a very good team this year, they went to the SCF.
In contrast, many of our players have never been to the playoffs (including all of our rookies) what did you expect to happen after the 1st round?
I'm stoked about the potential we have here, bugger off.
Some people on this board need to chill the **** out is all. We neededto beat Pittsburgh. That was a long time coming. Man I waited or that since 2008.
But yeah the goal is to in the cup but beating Pittsburgh is an awesome victory to close out this season. If some people don't wanna be positive about that then **** those guys. And their fans can't say ****. 95% of the stuff that comes out of their mouths is rabble rabble ********.
I feel like posting something simplistic (the only person we sign outside the organization is Suter):
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.500m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Ben Holmstrom ($0.700m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Ryan Suter ($6.500m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($1.100m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,996,944; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,303,056
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / xxxxxxxx1 ($6.500m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.550m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Tom Sestito ($0.605m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx2 ($3.000m) / xxxxxxxxxxxxxx3 ($3.000m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
xxxxxxxxxxxx4 ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $56,701,944; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (18-man roster): $1.098,056
I think this is best plan to do IF we are going to do trades. Trade with picks and those who arent on the plan.
Bring with trade or UFA xxx1 player like Ryan,Kane,Nash.
Defender xxxx2 and xxxx3 have to be allround or stay at home defenders cause we have to get better at defensive zone. Here i suggest players who can give good quick pass under pressure and can defense the goal and opposite of the goal, with more physicality i like more.
To xxxx4 backup goalie , this is now Bryzz change and want to give change to play so much that he can. If we dont trust him to keep the spot in long season , trade him somebody who can.
I feel like posting something simplistic (the only person we sign outside the organization is Suter):
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.500m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Ben Holmstrom ($0.700m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Ryan Suter ($6.500m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($1.100m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,996,944; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,303,056
That 4th line is super weak and small. Sign 2 of Gaustad, Stoll, Prust, Moen, or McClemment.
I feel like posting something simplistic (the only person we sign outside the organization is Suter):
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.500m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Ben Holmstrom ($0.700m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Ryan Suter ($6.500m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($1.100m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,996,944; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,303,056
Simplistic is not Homers style. He has basically said he's working on getting better and he typically makes the biggest splashes of the offseason so I don't see this year being any different. I like your lineup but I can't see the forwards looking that similar to last years group come October. Aside from the playoffs the next few weeks are actually my favorite time of year which is interesting since there isn't even any hockey being played.
Going into the season nobody knew what to expect from this team so I'm satisfied with our playoff run and especially since we knocked out the Pens and showed how overrated they were. However, even though we shouldn't be talking about how the playoffs went we should rather be talking about whether the signing of Bryz as well as the trading of Carter and Richards (especially considering that the latter two went on to win the Cup) was a good idea in the first place.
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Zach Parise ($6.500m)
Jakub Voracek ($3.500m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Jay McClement ($1.400m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($1.000m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($0.900m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,096,944; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $4,203,056
I kind of like that, 5 D-men who can lay the hammer down on you.
