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Carey Price (UPD: McKenzie expects 6-7 years, $6-6.5m per, to be done soon)

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Old
06-20-2012, 05:29 PM
  #76
Mike8
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
Lol do your homework if your going to start going off on people. I know what I'm talking. Doesn't matter if it's revisionist history. And he won two series with Montreal.
What homework, exactly? You've acted as though Theodore was some superstar that was stealing series' left and right for the Canadiens. Truth is: he stole one series, and won one other one. Then he was outplayed by opposition goalies for most of his other playoff experiences.

And, yes, it matters entirely that it's revisionist history.

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06-20-2012, 05:35 PM
  #77
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What homework, exactly? You've acted as though Theodore was some superstar that was stealing series' left and right for the Canadiens. Truth is: he stole one series, and won one other one. Then he was outplayed by opposition goalies for most of his other playoff experiences.

And, yes, it matters entirely that it's revisionist history.
Your a Theodore basher now the way you were probably a Price basher when Halak was in town. And if Price starts playing bad, you'll probably be the first to say how you were against signing him to a ridiculous contract he didn't earn.

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06-20-2012, 05:38 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
What homework, exactly? You've acted as though Theodore was some superstar that was stealing series' left and right for the Canadiens. Truth is: he stole one series, and won one other one. Then he was outplayed by opposition goalies for most of his other playoff experiences.

And, yes, it matters entirely that it's revisionist history.
But you can't base your analysis on the assumption that Price will go through the same ups and downs as Theodore.

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06-20-2012, 05:42 PM
  #79
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To me, anything over 5 to 5.5 is an over payment. Carey Price is a middle of the pack goaltender with top 5-10 upside. I would be willing to pay a bit extra for that upside.

The 10 year 70 million dollar talks around here are bordering on delusional. No thank you.

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06-20-2012, 05:45 PM
  #80
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I can't for the life of me believe that guys on this forum seriously think Price is just an average goalie. Makes me sick.

I don't care how much he gets paid but I want it done before someone gives him an offer sheet because there are teams that are that desperate for goaltending right now.
What makes me sick is how everyone is willing to throw everything at him without him ever accomplishing a whole lot. He's a good goalie, nothing more imo. There are a boat load of good goalies in the NHL.

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06-20-2012, 05:45 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
To me, anything over 5 to 5.5 is an over payment. Carey Price is a middle of the pack goaltender with top 5-10 upside. I would be willing to pay a bit extra for that upside.

The 10 year 70 million dollar talks around here are bordering on delusional. No thank you.
Middle of the pack that's cute. Be proud of the assets we have guys. Price is one of the best in the league. Every single fan base admits it except his own.

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06-20-2012, 05:47 PM
  #82
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Price has won one series. Theo has won 4. Price was a superstar 1 season so far. This year was nothing special. He had a pretty good end to his rookie year but he crapped the bed really hard in the playoffs. He was voted to one of the all star games, the year that he was atrocious in 09. And the only reason he went this year is because they needed at least one hab at the game. Just saying, we need to think long and hard before shelling out 6 million.
Really he was atrocious in 09? A 23-16-10, 2.83 gaa and 0.905 season as a 21 year old is atrocious?

Let's compare that to the almighty Halak the very same year. 18-14-1 2.86 gaa and 0.915

Also he did not go this year because a hab needed to be at the game. A lot of teams had no representatives at the game.

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06-20-2012, 05:52 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
Your a Theodore basher now the way you were probably a Price basher when Halak was in town. And if Price starts playing bad, you'll probably be the first to say how you were against signing him to a ridiculous contract he didn't earn.
I'm not a Theodore basher. (where did I even bash him? I specifically stated I was a strong believer in his talent.) And, no, I didn't 'bash' Price when Halak was around (I didn't 'bash' either, for that matter, and post histories exist in part for this reason!). Frankly, this whole bashing talk and speculating about my reactions to a Price slump is beyond juvenile.

The point is simple: you drew a parallel between Theodore and Price that didn't exist. Your premise was faulty. I've demonstrated how and why it was faulty, and so you've resorted to this nonsense.

Nice talking to you.

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Originally Posted by Strik_IX View Post
But you can't base your analysis on the assumption that Price will go through the same ups and downs as Theodore.
I don't understand your point. Did you mistakenly quote me...?

In any event, I agree with you.

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06-20-2012, 05:56 PM
  #84
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I don't understand your point. Did you mistakenly quote me...?

In any event, I agree with you.
I hate it when that happens :S Sorry

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06-20-2012, 05:58 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by habscup View Post
For goalies who played 50 or more games,

carey is 13th for GAA
and 11th for save %

Goalies who played 35 or 40 games have skewed stats for reasons obvious to any knowledgeable hockey person. Thanks
Out of 22...

And 2nd last for Wins.

Not trying to bash i'm just shocked at the type of money people thinks he deserve.

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06-20-2012, 05:59 PM
  #86
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He hasn't earned anything over $5M but given is bargaining power I'd say he'll get close to $5.5M per.

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06-20-2012, 06:03 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Out of 22...

And 2nd last for Wins.

Not trying to bash i'm just shocked at the type of money people thinks he deserve.
I think 6M to 6.5M a year is what he deserves, if the entire team (minus one line) had not crapped the bed I am sure we wouldn't even be arguing over salary...

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06-20-2012, 06:03 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
What makes me sick is how everyone is willing to throw everything at him
It's unfortunate that your penchant for exaggerating makes you sick (since, after all, only one poster in this thread advocated tossing $7m his way). The vast majority of posters in this thread advocated decent-to-good pay ($5-6m) on a long-term deal.

(Note: this would put Price somewhere between 11th and 6th in salary among NHL goaltenders)

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06-20-2012, 06:05 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Out of 22...

And 2nd last for Wins.

Not trying to bash i'm just shocked at the type of money people thinks he deserve.
You're not trying to bash really? You're making a continuous effort to refute any kind of support for your team's franchise goalie.

2nd last for wins? No **** sherlock.

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06-20-2012, 06:05 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by 76ftw View Post
Middle of the pack that's cute. Be proud of the assets we have guys. Price is one of the best in the league. Every single fan base admits it except his own.
He's about 10-15 by about anything measurable, I value performance over what might be, hype or things we hope/think will happen.

I think Price has top 5-10 upside. I don't think he's there yet, and if so, he's on the low end.

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06-20-2012, 06:09 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
He's about 10-15 by about anything measurable, I value performance over what might be, hype or things we hope/think will happen.

I think Price has top 5-10 upside. I don't think he's there yet, and if so, he's on the low end.
I love how Halak fan boys were nowhere to be found last year.

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Old
06-20-2012, 06:10 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
It's unfortunate that your penchant for exaggerating makes you sick (since, after all, only one poster in this thread advocated tossing $7m his way). The vast majority of posters in this thread advocated decent-to-good pay ($5-6m) on a long-term deal.

(Note: this would put Price somewhere between 11th and 6th in salary among NHL goaltenders)

Lafleur's guy and others have posted similar numbers in the past, suffice to say, there is more than one poster willing to pay price over 7+ per year.

Between 5-6m is the max imo, but I wouldn't go pass 4-5 years either. I think Price will be a top 6 -10 goalie, but don't believe he's there yet. He'd be the first to be ranked so high after doing so little in his professional career. One very, very good year, surrounded by ok years.

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06-20-2012, 06:10 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by habscup View Post
I love how Halak fan boys were nowhere to be found last year.
Me too, did I mention Halak somewhere?

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06-20-2012, 06:15 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by habscup View Post
I love how Halak fan boys were nowhere to be found last year.
I love how the Price supporters were nowhere to be found the year before last year.

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06-20-2012, 06:22 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
I love how the Price supporters were nowhere to be found the year before last year.
Those were people not very knowledgable about hockey who had no clue what goalie development is.

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06-20-2012, 06:28 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
He's about 10-15 by about anything measurable, I value performance over what might be, hype or things we hope/think will happen.

I think Price has top 5-10 upside. I don't think he's there yet, and if so, he's on the low end.
Putting a solid D group in front of him would also help his cause. Reference Jonathan Quick and the guys that he had in front of him and then compare them to our D.

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06-20-2012, 06:33 PM
  #97
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Really. Do we have to go through this Halak vs Price thing again? That's so 2009-2010.

Either way. Market value wise, Price is not worth 7 million. However, in the past, how often have we seen teams pay extra for potential and to buy out UFA years? If we're asking Price to forego his UFA option, we might have to pay extra for that. If the consensus between fans who are not willing to shell out the big bucks is that Price is a goalie ranked anywhere from top 5 to top 15, we're looking at goalies like Varlamov (3mil), Hiller (4.5mil), Niemi (4mil), Fleury (5.5mil), Lehtonen (4.5mil) or even Luongo (6.7mil). I consider Price conservatively superior to Lehtonen and Hiller (most definitely Niemi), which would put him in the 4.5+ range conservatively. It's even arguable that Price is above Fleury according to some fans. So that would put his comparable to roughly 5.5mil. If we're buying out UFA years, I can easily see why some fans would call for 6mil/year.

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06-20-2012, 08:02 PM
  #98
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Now, the tools for measuring goaltender performance are terrible. That said, I wanted to compare Price's even-strength save percentage over the last 3 years (the 3-year average) to other goalies.

Why 3 years and why even-strength only? 3 years the point at which career save percentage tends to stabilize for goalies (according to Gabe Desjardins). Even-strength save percentage only means you're less subject to general volatility and team effects (as discussed in this article: http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/03...enders-mostly/ ).

Anyway, Price settles in at .924 over the last 3 years (league average for last season only was .921 or .922. 13 goalies (minimum 2500 shots) had a 3-year average evSV% greater than Price's with another 5 guys below him between .922 and .924.

While he hasn't performed like an elite performer his technique is among the elite so there's room to grow. I wouldn't give him a 5+ year contract or 6+ million but the Habs wouldn't be crippling themselves signing an above-average goalie (which looks like the downside going forward barring injury) to that type of contract.

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06-20-2012, 08:04 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Roke View Post
Now, the tools for measuring goaltender performance are terrible. That said, I wanted to compare Price's even-strength save percentage over the last 3 years (the 3-year average) to other goalies.

Why 3 years and why even-strength only? 3 years the point at which career save percentage tends to stabilize for goalies (according to Gabe Desjardins). Even-strength save percentage only means you're less subject to general volatility and team effects (as discussed in this article: http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/03...enders-mostly/ ).

Anyway, Price settles in at .924 over the last 3 years (league average for last season only was .921 or .922. 13 goalies (minimum 2500 shots) had a 3-year average evSV% greater than Price's with another 5 guys below him between .922 and .924.

While he hasn't performed like an elite performer his technique is among the elite so there's room to grow. I wouldn't give him a 5+ year contract or 6+ million but the Habs wouldn't be crippling themselves signing an above-average goalie (which looks like the downside going forward barring injury) to that type of contract.
How many have played as many games as him from the 13 above him?

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06-20-2012, 08:08 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by habscup View Post
How many have played as many games as him from the 13 above him?
I didn't record games played in my crummy spreadsheet. On shots faced 7 of the 14 faced more shots than he did (total shots, not per/season or anything like that).

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