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Old
06-20-2012, 02:19 PM
  #26
Zetterberg4Captain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Just say what you mean...he fights more.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a fighter like Prust, he's not useless in other area's so if we're going to add a fighter he's the kind I'd want.
hey man make no mistake about it i do want a fighter but i dont want a fighter that cant do anything else.

prust is nasty and grity plus he can fight, these are three elements we need to add this summer just as much as we need to add a front line winger to play with datsyuk

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06-20-2012, 02:57 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
hey man make no mistake about it i do want a fighter but i dont want a fighter that cant do anything else.
This is a good point. Prust isn't a liability on the ice.

Some people are wanting Abdelkader out, and at the same time some are wanting Prust in.

To make a real difference in physicality to our 3-4 lines, we should have them both.

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06-20-2012, 03:12 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
This is a good point. Prust isn't a liability on the ice.

Some people are wanting Abdelkader out, and at the same time some are wanting Prust in.

To make a real difference in physicality to our 3-4 lines, we should have them both.
I think that's a good point, it seems counterproductive to get rid of Abdelkader when he's one of the younger, fastest and most physical players on the team, and those are exactly the type of player most of us think this team lacks.

But if you can replace him with a guy that's similar and has more offensive upside (even if he's a bit older), I say do it. Having said that, we all know Abby is coming back.

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06-20-2012, 03:32 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post

Some people are wanting Abdelkader out, and at the same time some are wanting Prust in.

To make a real difference in physicality to our 3-4 lines, we should have them both.
Actually, to make a real difference, we should still get rid of Abdelkader, and swap in Prust and Pyatt, for example.

People have turned sour on Abdelkader not because of his size or physicality, but because of his impact. He has no "it" factor; he isn't a sparkplug. No one fears fighting him, no one expects him to land a game-changing hit, no one would consider him a candidate for a clutch goal. Until he does something to to differentiate his game from the pack, he's just a semi-physical 4th line plug.

That said, I'd get rid of Emmerton and the like before Abdelkader.

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06-20-2012, 03:55 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Actually, to make a real difference, we should still get rid of Abdelkader, and swap in Prust and Pyatt, for example.

People have turned sour on Abdelkader not because of his size or physicality, but because of his impact. He has no "it" factor; he isn't a sparkplug. No one fears fighting him, no one expects him to land a game-changing hit, no one would consider him a candidate for a clutch goal. Until he does something to to differentiate his game from the pack, he's just a semi-physical 4th line plug.

That said, I'd get rid of Emmerton and the like before Abdelkader.
I think they both need to go for the reasons you just said. Mursak has more of an 'it' factor than Abdelkdaer. Can anyone tell me why Abdelkdaer deserves more $$ than Miller?

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06-20-2012, 03:57 PM
  #31
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Best fighters at last season:

Brandon Prust, NYR - 20 fights, (UFA)
Shawn Thornton, BOS - 20 fights, (signed to 2014)
Derek Dosett, CBJ - 19 fights, (signed to 2015)
Jared Boll, CBJ - 18 fights, (RFA)
Zenon Konopka, OTT - 18 fights, (UFA)
Cody McLeod, COL - 17 fights, (signed to 2015)
Matt Martin, NYI - 15 fights, (RFA)
Zac Rinaldo, PHI - 15 fights, (signed to 2013)
Brad Staubitz, MTL - 15 fights (UFA)

Tim Jackman, CGY - 14 fights (signed to 2014)
Ryan Reaves, STL - 13 fights (signed to 2014)
Michael Rupp, NYR - 13 fights (signed to 2014)
Krys Barch, FLO - 12 fights (UFA)
Stu Bickel, NYR - 12 fights (UFA)

Matt Hendricks, WSH - 11 fights (signed to 2013)
Jamal Mayers, CHI - 11 fights (signed to 2013)
George Parros, ANA - 11 fights (UFA)

Chris Thorburn, WPG - 11 figths (signed to 2014)
Mike Brown, TOR, 10 fights (signed to 2014)
Gregory Campbell, BOS - 10 fights (signed to 2015)
Kyle Clifford, LAK - 10 fights (signed to 2013)
Chris Neil, OTT - 10 fights (signed to 2013)
Wayne Simmonds, PHI - 10 fights (signed to 2013)


UFA's:
Prust 82gp 5+12=17, -1, 11:54 IT
Konopka 55gp 3+2=5, -4, 7:50 IT
Staubitz 62gp 1+0=1, -5, 6:31 IT
Barch 51gp 2+3=5, +0, 7:21 IT
Bickel 52gp 0+5=5, +2, 10:26 IT (defenceman)
Parros 46gp, 1+3=4, +1, 6:22 IT

It really looks that Prust is the only good hockeyplayer of the top fighters. Too bad, that's why he is pricing himself out of the Rangers. He knows he is going cash big money as UFA. I don't know would I be ready to pay +2.0 million for him.

Konopka is the other choise, but not as good as Prust. Others are just worthless hockeyplayers, only great goons.

EDIT:

I extend the list for the guys who fought at least 7 times. That's once more than Abdelkader did (six times).

Eric Boulton, NJD - 9 fights (signed to 2013)
Ryane Clowe, SJS - 9 fights (signed to 2013)
BJ Crombeen, STL - 9 fights (signed to 2013)
Jake Dowell, DAL - 9 fights (UFA)
Cam Janssen, NJD - 9 fights (UFA)
Arron Asham, PIT - 8 fights (UFA)

Matt Beleskey, ANA - 8 fights (signed to 2013)
Brandon Bollig, CHI - 8 fights (signed to 2014)
Sheldon Brookbank, ANA - 8 fights (UFA)

Deryk Engelland, PIT - 8 fights (signed to 2014)
Darcy Hordichuk, EDM - 8 fights (UFA)

Cody McCormick, BUF - 8 fights (signed to 2014)
Zack Smith, OTT - 8 fights (signed to 2013)
Dale Weise, VAN - 8 fights (RFA)
Paul Bissonnette, PHX - 7 fights (Signed to 2014)
David Clarkson, NJD - 7 fights (signed to 2013)
Colin Fraser, LAK - 7 fights (UFA)
Tanner Glass, WPG - 7 fights (UFA)
Michael Haley, NYI - 7 fights (UFA)
Matt Kassian, MIN - 7 fights (UFA)

Maxim Lapierre, VAN - 7 fights (signed to 2013)
Tom Sestito, PHI - 7 fights (RFA)
Ryan White, MTL - 7 fights (RFA)

More goons, only Asham, Stanley Cup Winner Fraser, and Tanner Glass can play hockey.

So we have five guys:

Brandon Prust, 82gp, 5+12=17, -1, 11:54 IT
Zenon Konopka, 55gp, 3+2=5, -4, 7:50 IT
Arron Asham, 64gp, 5+11=16, -5, 9:14 IT
Colin Fraser, 67gp, 2+6=8, -2, 9:44 IT
Tanner Glass, 78gp, 5+11=16, -12, 13:25 IT

Size/handness/age:

Prust 6'0/198lbs, L, 28y
Asham 5'11/205lbs, R, 34y
Konopka 6'0/209lbs, L, 31y
Glass 6'1/210lbs, L, 28y
Fraser 6'1/191lbs, L, 27y

Pts/icetime:
Asham 0.027
Prust 0.017
Glass 0.015
Fraser 0.012
Konopka 0.012

Hits/icetime:
Glass 0.237
Fraser 0.231
Asham 0.168
Prust 0.148
Konopka 0.128

Blocks/icetime:
Prust 0.052
Glass 0.049
Konopka 0.043
Fraser 0.039
Asham 0.014

Takeaways/icetime:
Fraser 0.025
Asham 0.022
Konopka 0.016
Prust 0.015
Glass 0.009

Penalties drawn/taken per icetime:
Prust +1.1 -0.9 = +0.2
Fraser +1.1 -1.1 = 0.0
Glass +0.4 -0.5 = -0.1
Asham +0.8 -0.9 = -0.1
Konopka +1.0 -2.7 = -1.7


There is some differences between the guys, but it looks the younger Fraser, Glass and Prust are best players statistically. Konopka has that faceoff ability that is a bonus. Fraser is bad at faceoffs, so getting a bad faceoff center isn't so good idea. Asham is too old to be an energy guy, and his stats could just decline more in the future.

Konopka doesn't impress with his defensive play and he takes a huge amount of penalties more than the others. Every guy of these have a lot of fighting majors, so his value must come from minor penalties, and that's a bad thing.

It's a battle between Prust and Glass. As a hockeyplayer, they are quite even. But then the willingness to fight comes in account. Prust wins with 20 to 7.

So, if we need a hockeyplayer than can fight and be great energy line player, Brandon Prust is the best of all UFAs, and Tanner Glass is a good 2nd choise.


Last edited by Henkka: 06-20-2012 at 05:19 PM.
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Old
06-20-2012, 05:15 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I think they both need to go for the reasons you just said. Mursak has more of an 'it' factor than Abdelkdaer. Can anyone tell me why Abdelkdaer deserves more $$ than Miller?
Nope.

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06-20-2012, 05:17 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I think they both need to go for the reasons you just said. Mursak has more of an 'it' factor than Abdelkdaer. Can anyone tell me why Abdelkdaer deserves more $$ than Miller?
His contract's up at the right time and he hasn't cleared multiple waivers throughout his career like Miller has. I'm hoping Gator is on the trade block if we're really looking at throwing at him nearly $2m annually. Unless they're looking at him getting a bigger role this year, it's just not worth it.

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06-20-2012, 05:17 PM
  #34
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The thing is, we don't want/need a goon or a plug. As soon as I start looking at that list, I go back to Prust. Guys like him, contrary to popular belief, are not common in this league. I'd be willing to make him our highest paid player on the bottom two lines.

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06-20-2012, 05:18 PM
  #35
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I'd love to see them sign Prust. He's not very fast though is he?

Need to sign Matt Carkner too, then they're ready to go

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06-20-2012, 05:30 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Can anyone tell me why Abdelkdaer deserves more $$ than Miller?
No idea, but people around here underrate Miller..

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06-20-2012, 05:48 PM
  #37
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I'd take Prust at whatever his rumored salary is over Gator at $2m+.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
His contract's up at the right time and he hasn't cleared multiple waivers throughout his career like Miller has. I'm hoping Gator is on the trade block if we're really looking at throwing at him nearly $2m annually. Unless they're looking at him getting a bigger role this year, it's just not worth it.
Holland did say he was exploring trade avenues last month, sooooo...

Honestly, I hope we do get rid of him. He's plays with an edge, I guess, but he's still a plug through and through. His hits aren't that hard, he fighting skills are far from intimidating (more of an "A for effort" kind of guy), and outside of the first couple of games in that '09 series against Pittsburgh, he's shown little, if any, offensive ability. Guys like him and Emmerton are a dime a dozen in this league, and throwing $2m+ at someone like that is just such a huge waste.

We can do better.

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06-20-2012, 05:55 PM
  #38
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Their stats may be similar but for this role you just can't rely on stats. Watch a Rags game and tell me he isn't a lot more notciable than Justin "I suck at hockey" Abdelkader. I like the dude's effort and defensive awareness, but he honestly has like a 30% win percentage and more often than not it just demoralizes the team to seem him get his assbeat.

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06-20-2012, 08:02 PM
  #39
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I don't think people were ready to dump Abdelkader until that contract rumor came out, I know I wasn't. There's no way that he's worth close to $2m

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06-20-2012, 08:05 PM
  #40
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I would absolutely love to have Prust.

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06-20-2012, 08:29 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
This is a good point. Prust isn't a liability on the ice.

Some people are wanting Abdelkader out, and at the same time some are wanting Prust in.

To make a real difference in physicality to our 3-4 lines, we should have them both.
You are 100% correct. I also believe Abby would benefit big time from a bruiser, quasi enforcer. He would be able to play his game more, be more aggressive and not worry about having to fight. I know he didnt fight much, but he was the closest thing the Wings had to a scrapper. And he's really not suited for that role. Prust could be like McCarty to Abby's Maltby.

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06-20-2012, 08:54 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by sureWhyNot View Post
You are 100% correct. I also believe Abby would benefit big time from a bruiser, quasi enforcer. He would be able to play his game more, be more aggressive and not worry about having to fight. I know he didnt fight much, but he was the closest thing the Wings had to a scrapper. And he's really not suited for that role. Prust could be like McCarty to Abby's Maltby.
was about to post the same thing. it's been said countless times that helm/gator are this gen's draper/maltby. just gotta find their mac. ideally someone who can contribute more than just fists. if prust prices himself outta NY, I can't see us offering what he might want. that said, players have priced themselves out of one locale, only to take less somewhere else

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06-20-2012, 08:58 PM
  #43
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You are 100% correct. I also believe Abby would benefit big time from a bruiser, quasi enforcer. He would be able to play his game more, be more aggressive and not worry about having to fight. I know he didnt fight much, but he was the closest thing the Wings had to a scrapper. And he's really not suited for that role. Prust could be like McCarty to Abby's Maltby.
Yup exactly. Abdelkader would look really good on Boston or a team of that ilk because he could run aronud all he wants and not get challenged all the time. With Prust taking on most comers, Abdelkader would run around more and become more useful.

Hes suited for about 5 fights a season to keep himself respectable for some of the hits he throws. He actually hits hard, some people on this board just see he doesnt score a lot and run down other parts of his game as well.

While being 3 years younger, he had 3 less points than Miller. The difference being, Abdelkader got stuck at a position he isnt suited for because Emmerton couldnt be relied on. Abdelkader played 4th line C with Emmerton, Homer and Mursak and still hit 22 points.

He does provide a nice physical edge, the only forward on Detroit that does and would step up and scrap a bit. Miller wouldnt. He also PKs just as well.

How about we actually get a 4th line center, play Abdelkader at his natural position and also sign a real scrapper so Abby isnt forced into a role he shouldnt play.

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06-20-2012, 09:26 PM
  #44
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As much as I love Prust, signing him really complicates our roster situation... I feel we are really shoving Miller under the bus.

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06-20-2012, 09:39 PM
  #45
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As much as I love Prust, signing him really complicates our roster situation... I feel we are really shoving Miller under the bus.
I don't think so.

I'd love to roll with a bottom 6 consisting of:

Cleary - Helm - Eaves
Bertuzzi - Abdelkdaer - Prust
Miller

Hell, I'd even be in favor of trading Abdelkader and plugging Sheahan in there. Something we don't usually see, he can't be any worse at faceoffs and he has more potential now than Abdelkdaer seems to have.

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06-20-2012, 10:14 PM
  #46
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I don't think so.

I'd love to roll with a bottom 6 consisting of:

Cleary - Helm - Eaves
Bertuzzi - Abdelkdaer - Prust
Miller

Hell, I'd even be in favor of trading Abdelkader and plugging Sheahan in there. Something we don't usually see, he can't be any worse at faceoffs and he has more potential now than Abdelkdaer seems to have.
Abdelkader had the 2nd best face-off % of all our centers this past season.

Only Datsyuk was better.

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06-20-2012, 10:24 PM
  #47
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He only took 452 faceoffs.

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06-20-2012, 10:56 PM
  #48
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He only took 452 faceoffs.
Of course he did, he was the 4th line center, I wouldn't expect him to be taking draws more frequently than the top 3.

He still had a better winning percentage than Z and Helm though. Of all the things you can criticize Abdelkader for, face-offs shouldn't be one.

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06-21-2012, 03:53 AM
  #49
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I don't think people were ready to dump Abdelkader until that contract rumor came out, I know I wasn't. There's no way that he's worth close to $2m
What contract rumor?

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06-21-2012, 07:02 AM
  #50
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Abby is a better hockey player than he showed last season. I'm not ready to give up on this guy yet. He has shown flashes of offensive potential. For whatever reason, he has drifted away from his game. Maybe he needs to stop trying to be an enforcer-type, and get back to playing his game. Picking up a fourth line center like Prust might not be such a bad idea. Abby would be better suited as a winger anyway.

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