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Old
06-21-2012, 12:33 AM
  #26
SinfulCobraZ
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Originally Posted by Blitzburgh87 View Post
Not trading michalek.
This.

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Old
06-21-2012, 12:36 AM
  #27
danishh
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Gonchar + for michalek i'm fine with. We certainly have the assets to make that work if it's possible.

some news also came out last week (via milan) that the brothers wanted to play with each other, ottawa just called gonchar first and was forced to make a quick decision (wanted gonchar, michalek, or volchenkov back that year).

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Old
06-21-2012, 12:39 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
I laughed .

Purely based on needs, I would prefer Gonchar on the Pens next season rather than Martin. I have zero doubts that Gonchar, for his apparent tailing off, would do more to help OUR team next season, than Martin does. For many other teams though, I'd think Martin the much better asset.

But I would rather deal Martin for a reasonable pick/prospect return, and spend the cap-room differently while giving Despres the spot.

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06-21-2012, 02:46 AM
  #29
Benny FTW
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Martin = Horcoff

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Old
06-21-2012, 02:52 AM
  #30
Dylonus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highbrow View Post
Zero interest in Martin. Lots of interest in Michalek. What would it take on top of Gonchar to land Michalek?
A lot. Gonchar for Michalek isn't happening./

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Old
06-21-2012, 03:11 AM
  #31
Captain Hook
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Pens aren't looking to swap Martin for a more expensive and similarly redundant type of D-Man. That defeats the purpose of trading him. Also, being on different teams clearly hasn't effected Malkin and Gonchar's friendship. They can still be friends.

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Old
06-21-2012, 03:46 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Pens aren't looking to swap Martin for a more expensive and similarly redundant type of D-Man.
Indeed, if a couple of D are going to be traded, is because we have too many NHL ready D, so the return should be a winger, not another D.

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Old
06-21-2012, 04:14 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Pens aren't looking to swap Martin for a more expensive and similarly redundant type of D-Man. That defeats the purpose of trading him. Also, being on different teams clearly hasn't effected Malkin and Gonchar's friendship. They can still be friends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giskard View Post
Indeed, if a couple of D are going to be traded, is because we have too many NHL ready D, so the return should be a winger, not another D.
As said before, I would prefer to deal Martin and bring no new D-man back also, but I have go when seeing Gonchar described as a 'similarly redundant type of D-man'.

That is uniquely bizarre. Martin and Gonchar are very, very different. Have very different strengths and very different weaknesses.

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Old
06-21-2012, 06:12 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highbrow View Post
Zero interest in Martin. Lots of interest in Michalek. What would it take on top of Gonchar to land Michalek?
All the tea in China.

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Old
06-21-2012, 06:17 AM
  #35
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Then would you guys do Silfverberg + 2012 1st for Michalek + Tangradi/2012 2nd?

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Old
06-21-2012, 06:20 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
Then would you guys do Silfverberg + 2012 1st for Michalek + Tangradi/2012 2nd?
I doubt you're gonna find too many Sens fans who are gonna be thrilled with that.

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Old
06-21-2012, 06:53 AM
  #37
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Gonchar+Butler+15th for Martin+Michalek+22nd

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Old
06-21-2012, 07:26 AM
  #38
Captain Hook
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
As said before, I would prefer to deal Martin and bring no new D-man back also, but I have go when seeing Gonchar described as a 'similarly redundant type of D-man'.

That is uniquely bizarre. Martin and Gonchar are very, very different. Have very different strengths and very different weaknesses.
My point was they are similar in that they are both completely redundant on a Pens team that has a lot of PMD's and/or offensive D's. Those being Letang, Despres, Morrow, Niskanen etc. We have little use for either of Gonchar or Martin.

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Old
06-21-2012, 09:08 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
Then would you guys do Silfverberg + 2012 1st for Michalek + Tangradi/2012 2nd?
Not a chance.

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Old
06-21-2012, 09:20 AM
  #40
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1 year of gonchar is better than than 3 of martin. Martin is still alright just dont fit the system. And if Wieznewski (spelling i know) is getting 5.5mil on the opening. Paul Martin 3 yr 15mil is goin to start to look enticing for teams who dont want to pay the $ and yrs to UFA's

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Old
06-21-2012, 09:35 AM
  #41
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Its not that the Pens do not want Martin, they just do not want him for his cap hit. Gonchars cap hit coming back nullifies that. Gonch days are over in the Burgh.

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Old
06-21-2012, 09:39 AM
  #42
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As much as I like Gonchar, he has lost a couple steps over the past couple years and he sure isn't getting any younger.

No thanks from the Penguins

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Old
06-21-2012, 09:44 AM
  #43
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Why would the pens do this? Martin is one bad year removed from being in the discussion of the overall top 20 defensemen in the league. And that one bad year was nowhere near as bad as Gonchar was when he first came to Pittsburgh. The "what have you done for me lately" crowd is going to be shocked at what Martin will return if he's dealt.

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Old
06-21-2012, 10:40 AM
  #44
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Let's be realistic. Martin is getting older, had an awful year, was a healthy scratch in the playoffs with the Penguins playing scrubs instead of him, and he has a large contract. His value is very low. That is not to say that a team won't overpay for him ( ie. Gomez) but most teams will realize he has very little value at this point.

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Old
06-21-2012, 10:45 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Koized View Post
Let's be realistic. Martin is getting older, had an awful year, was a healthy scratch in the playoffs with the Penguins playing scrubs instead of him, and he has a large contract. His value is very low. That is not to say that a team won't overpay for him ( ie. Gomez) but most teams will realize he has very little value at this point.
Gonchar is considerably older and has a larger contract, so while your points are well taken and Martin's value certainly is not at a high point, the incentive to do this particular trade just is not there at all.

This reminds me if all the Toronto offers for Staal that included Armstrong. Building a competitve hockey team is just somewhat different from organizing a class reunion.

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Old
06-21-2012, 10:48 AM
  #46
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wait why would the pens want Gonchar? Have pens fans already forgotten him in the 2009 playoffs just literally letting people skate by him?

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Old
06-21-2012, 10:49 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Koized View Post
Let's be realistic. Martin is getting older, had an awful year, was a healthy scratch in the playoffs with the Penguins playing scrubs instead of him, and he has a large contract. His value is very low. That is not to say that a team won't overpay for him ( ie. Gomez) but most teams will realize he has very little value at this point.
1. Martin is 31, he's the same age as guys like Brooks Orpik and Barrett Jackman, yes they're getting older, but they're not that old lol.

2. Martin had a concussion, he said he started feeling symptoms after game 1 but didn't report it until he got hit by Schenn in game 3, which is why he was shut down the rest of the series.

3. I don't expect overpayment, but I also don't expect late picks or prospects that won't make the NHL. Shero said he wants an asset that will help his team now if he trades a D man, that's what I expect for Paul Martin, if he's even traded at all which is unknown.

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Old
06-21-2012, 12:39 PM
  #48
Benny FTW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h2owned View Post
Gonchar+Butler+15th for Martin+Michalek+22nd
I wouldn't do Butler straight up for Martin. This is awful

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
Then would you guys do Silfverberg + 2012 1st for Michalek + Tangradi/2012 2nd?
Silfverberg is not available

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Old
06-21-2012, 12:42 PM
  #49
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I don't want Gonchar to return. He's not as good as he used to be and could sour his good reputation at this club.

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Old
06-21-2012, 12:44 PM
  #50
Koized
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
1. Martin is 31, he's the same age as guys like Brooks Orpik and Barrett Jackman, yes they're getting older, but they're not that old lol.

2. Martin had a concussion, he said he started feeling symptoms after game 1 but didn't report it until he got hit by Schenn in game 3, which is why he was shut down the rest of the series.

3. I don't expect overpayment, but I also don't expect late picks or prospects that won't make the NHL. Shero said he wants an asset that will help his team now if he trades a D man, that's what I expect for Paul Martin, if he's even traded at all which is unknown.
1. Drew Doughty is 22. I don't see how the ages of the two players you listed has anything to do with the discussion but great job on providing their ages! Players typically start seeing a deterioration in their play in their early 30's as they are past their prime years.

2. It was reported at the time he was a healthy scratch. Although it may seem better that he had a concussion and was sat then because of his play for his trade value (and I think you can make a strong argument he should have been a healthy scratch as he was god awful) now you must consider you are trading a player that had a recent concussion. This will further impact his value.

3. The Penguins would be better off holding onto Martin and hoping he has a bounce back year. If they decide to trade him it will be for marginal return, a mid-round draft pick or a similar player who has struggled on a large contract.

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