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Burke will have tough decision to make on Gardiner

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Old
06-21-2012, 10:06 AM
  #201
hotpaws
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Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
talk about broad insinuation, which Leafs fan actually said that about Gardiner
They never mentioned Orr but plenty have brought up the Neids comparison .

I have no idea why people can't simply be pleased with how well he played last year without bringing up HOF's to compare him too .

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06-21-2012, 10:10 AM
  #202
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He won't have a tough decision at all.

He's not going to include him in any trade. If Burke can't get a trade done because other GMs are adamant about including Gardiner in the deal, then Burke simply doesn't make any trades.

Gardiner is a great prospect. The Leafs shouldn't give him up, unless the piece coming back is much better than he will ever be and is young. In that case, he'll most likely be included in a package deal.

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06-21-2012, 10:11 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by thecatch22 View Post
Gardiner has been playing defense for what, 4 years?

Campbell's offensive ability is certainly in his reach but as he develops I think his board work will improve greatly.

Again, best talent on the blue line since Berrard. Has the tools to be great just needs to be tougher and meaner.
how can you coach/teach that sort of thing?

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06-21-2012, 10:36 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
how can you coach/teach that sort of thing?
I'm not saying he has to be like Pronger but puck battles he has to better at. That comes with adjusting to playing against men.

Kid came straight out of college essentially.

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06-21-2012, 10:47 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by thecatch22 View Post
I'm not saying he has to be like Pronger but puck battles he has to better at. That comes with adjusting to playing against men.
I see Gardiner's style being a lot like Lidstrom (note: I am not saying Gardiner is as good or ever will be as good as Niklas Lidstrom) in that he uses position and speed to get the job done defensively.

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06-21-2012, 10:51 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
I see Gardiner's style being a lot like Lidstrom (note: I am not saying Gardiner is as good or ever will be as good as Niklas Lidstrom) in that he uses position and speed to get the job done defensively.
He's nothing like Lidstrom . Gardiner uses his speed to correct his mistakes in his defensive positioning . Lidstrom is almost never out of position and the only thing they have in common is that they both arn't physical .

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06-21-2012, 12:06 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
They never mentioned Orr but plenty have brought up the Neids comparison .

I have no idea why people can't simply be pleased with how well he played last year without bringing up HOF's to compare him too .
I never said anybody compared him to Bobby Orr. I simply said that fans speak of this kid be some kind of untouchable LIKE BOBBY ORR.....He is not. Perhaps he is untouchable in the eyes of Mr. Burke but if the Leafs want to acquire a stud C/ D or G.....my guess is that Gardiner will always be part of the discussion from the other GM in the deal. If Burke is unwilling to deal Gardiner, I guess we won't be seeing any impact players arriving on the scene this off-season. Simple.

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06-21-2012, 12:12 PM
  #208
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I really like Gardiner but to say to say outright that he should not be included in any trade is ridiculous.

He might very well be at the height of his value right now and if you can include him in a trade that will reshape the franchise you do it.

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06-21-2012, 12:45 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
I never said anybody compared him to Bobby Orr. I simply said that fans speak of this kid be some kind of untouchable LIKE BOBBY ORR.....He is not. Perhaps he is untouchable in the eyes of Mr. Burke but if the Leafs want to acquire a stud C/ D or G.....my guess is that Gardiner will always be part of the discussion from the other GM in the deal. If Burke is unwilling to deal Gardiner, I guess we won't be seeing any impact players arriving on the scene this off-season. Simple.

Aren't you one of the people that are not happy about the Kessel trade? So Burke trades some draft picks that turn out to be high draft picks for an impact player in Kessel and he's criticized for it by you. Burke doesn't trade a young, full of potential D-man in Gardiner for an impact player and he's criticized for it by you.

In case you miss the meaning of my point here, the Kessel trade involved unknown commodities (draft picks) and any Gardiner trade involves a rookie that played a full season in the NHL where there's a much better understanding of what the player can be.

There's really no pleasing you is there?

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06-21-2012, 05:42 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by MajorityRules View Post
Aren't you one of the people that are not happy about the Kessel trade? So Burke trades some draft picks that turn out to be high draft picks for an impact player in Kessel and he's criticized for it by you. Burke doesn't trade a young, full of potential D-man in Gardiner for an impact player and he's criticized for it by you.

In case you miss the meaning of my point here, the Kessel trade involved unknown commodities (draft picks) and any Gardiner trade involves a rookie that played a full season in the NHL where there's a much better understanding of what the player can be.

There's really no pleasing you is there?
Hey dude. I never implied in my post that I do want Gardiner traded. Show me where please. I am merely pointing out the facts of the case...If the Leafs want an impact player whether he be a C a D or G then Gardiner will most likely be part of the discussion. Thats what I said. On the other hand I am certainly not opposed to trading Gardiner or anybody else on the team if its going to make the Leafs better. That isn't even a lofty goal considering where they are coming from.

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06-22-2012, 12:50 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
I never said anybody compared him to Bobby Orr. I simply said that fans speak of this kid be some kind of untouchable LIKE BOBBY ORR.....He is not. Perhaps he is untouchable in the eyes of Mr. Burke but if the Leafs want to acquire a stud C/ D or G.....my guess is that Gardiner will always be part of the discussion from the other GM in the deal. If Burke is unwilling to deal Gardiner, I guess we won't be seeing any impact players arriving on the scene this off-season. Simple.
you certainly did so

Quote:
Without a doubt. People talk about Jake Gardiner like he is Bobby Orr.
this is the internet afterall

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06-22-2012, 12:57 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Leaf Army View Post
I really like Gardiner but to say to say outright that he should not be included in any trade is ridiculous.

He might very well be at the height of his value right now and if you can include him in a trade that will reshape the franchise you do it.
This.

If it reshapes the franchise, then of course you do it - nobody is untouchable.

But how do you define a trade that "reshapes" the franchise?

For me, getting a legitimate goalie clearly reshapes this franchise. Do I give up Gardiner for a goalie? Not unless it's Lundqvist or Rinne or Quick or one of the best in the game.

It's all subjective on the value that he potentially brings back. For me though, as fun and exciting and promising as Gardiner is, he, like the rest of the roster on a team that finished 25th in the league last season, are all available - there's no such thing as "untouchable"

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06-22-2012, 06:15 AM
  #213
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If you have a guy on an ELC that everyone else seems to want, you should probably keep him.

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06-22-2012, 06:24 AM
  #214
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There is NO decision being made on Gardiner. He's a Leaf and will stay a Leaf. Leafs can't trade multiple young players for veterans. Burke knows this. they aren't the LA Kings with 1 or 2 holes -- they have plenty.

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06-22-2012, 10:36 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
you certainly did so



this is the internet afterall
Well you may interpret it that way but thats not what I meant seeing that I have never seen anybody make that comparison. Not even Leaf fans are that delusional. How can anybody in their right mind compare an unproven young rookie to Bobby Orr.....the greatest player in the history of the game. Seriously...what was meant by my statement is that fans speak of Gardiner as untouchable as Bobby Orr was. Not that Gardiner is in any way shape or form like Bobby Orr. Touchy touchy Mr. Koho.

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06-22-2012, 10:39 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
This.

If it reshapes the franchise, then of course you do it - nobody is untouchable.

But how do you define a trade that "reshapes" the franchise?

For me, getting a legitimate goalie clearly reshapes this franchise. Do I give up Gardiner for a goalie? Not unless it's Lundqvist or Rinne or Quick or one of the best in the game.

It's all subjective on the value that he potentially brings back. For me though, as fun and exciting and promising as Gardiner is, he, like the rest of the roster on a team that finished 25th in the league last season, are all available - there's no such thing as "untouchable"
Agreed....NOBODY on a team such as the Leafs should be untouchable. Gardiner included. But I would add Corey Schnieder to your list of players I'd move him for. Seeing that some fans think that Gillis is just as likely to move Schneider as he is Luongo. I don't believe it for a second. But if it is in fact the case..I'd certainly consider Gardiner in a package for Corey Schnieder. Never for a 33 year old Luongo....NOT A CHANCE.

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06-22-2012, 10:47 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Agreed....NOBODY on a team such as the Leafs should be untouchable. Gardiner included. But I would add Corey Schnieder to your list of players I'd move him for. Seeing that some fans think that Gillis is just as likely to move Schneider as he is Luongo. I don't believe it for a second. But if it is in fact the case..I'd certainly consider Gardiner in a package for Corey Schnieder. Never for a 33 year old Luongo....NOT A CHANCE.
I wouldn't. And I'd hope that Burke and Co. learned from the mistakes made by this club that moving prime assets for essentially untested goalies is a recipe for disaster.

Vesa Toskala was an outstanding back-up widely held as a would be number one goaltender. And I remember a lot of people, excited about the prospect about such a flamboyant goalie finally getting a chance to play as a number one.

No thanks. Let's build our depth and move to positions of strength, even if it's incremental. Let's keep our depth and patiently move the pieces forward until the right scenario presents itself.

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06-22-2012, 11:10 AM
  #218
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Barb Underhill and partner Paul Martini were famous Canadian pairs skaters during the heyday of figure skating in Canada. They won a gold and Bronze in the World Championships.
I know, then she skated with the ice capades and stars on ice

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06-22-2012, 11:15 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Well you may interpret it that way but thats not what I meant seeing that I have never seen anybody make that comparison. Not even Leaf fans are that delusional. How can anybody in their right mind compare an unproven young rookie to Bobby Orr.....the greatest player in the history of the game. Seriously...what was meant by my statement is that fans speak of Gardiner as untouchable as Bobby Orr was. Not that Gardiner is in any way shape or form like Bobby Orr. Touchy touchy Mr. Koho.
Funny that you call all Leaf fans delusional and then express disbelief that someone would accuse you of stating that Leaf fans over rate Gardiner to the point of Bobby Orr. All in the same post.

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06-22-2012, 12:49 PM
  #220
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Funny that you call all Leaf fans delusional and then express disbelief that someone would accuse you of stating that Leaf fans over rate Gardiner to the point of Bobby Orr. All in the same post.
Mr. Oak...reading not only these forums...but having known hardcore die-hard Leafs fans for over 40 years and reading other forums, there is no doubt in my mind that a percentage of Leaf fans are certainly delusional....I bet I can say that about any fanbase in any sport. There are simply some who let fanatacism get in the way of reality....not only in sport but certainly in religion, cults and sects which is basically what a fanbase is.

The older I get....the further I can step back and simply see things for what they are. Thats all. Not sure what you mean about Bobby Orr.... but my quote, meaning were taken out of context....as usual. Fans need to understand that if you want value you will need to give value. Saying Gardiner is the most sought after prospect/player the Leafs have is not a slight against the young player. Its actually the opposite.

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06-22-2012, 12:53 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
.... but my quote, meaning were taken out of context....as usual.
If your posts are usually taken out of context, who is to blame for that?

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06-22-2012, 12:55 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
If your posts are usually taken out of context, who is to blame for that?
I dont know...if Burke is constantly being taken out of context or not meaning what he actually says, who is to blame for that? If you are implying that I'm in the same boat as a Harvard Graduate I am flattered.

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06-22-2012, 02:24 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
I dont know...if Burke is constantly being taken out of context or not meaning what he actually says, who is to blame for that? If you are implying that I'm in the same boat as a Harvard Graduate I am flattered.
Nice deflection.

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06-23-2012, 12:43 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Well you may interpret it that way but thats not what I meant seeing that I have never seen anybody make that comparison. Not even Leaf fans are that delusional. How can anybody in their right mind compare an unproven young rookie to Bobby Orr.....the greatest player in the history of the game. Seriously...what was meant by my statement is that fans speak of Gardiner as untouchable as Bobby Orr was. Not that Gardiner is in any way shape or form like Bobby Orr. Touchy touchy Mr. Koho.
nothing touchy about it chum, you're prone to broad statements, if you want to hang it on an inability to be concise thats fine with me

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06-23-2012, 01:09 AM
  #225
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Honestly,these articles are stupid.

Leafs would consider trading for Crosby.Leafs interested in flipping Komisarek for first overall pick.Leafs looking at Luongo.Leafs on Nash's trade list.If you listen to Burke he isnt in any panic to get Luongo.Gillis is playing the fans through the media in a vain attempt to create a market and put pressure on Burke via gullible fans.Burke wants to see if Reimer can recover from his injury before he panics.We also have a potential strike year,making Luongo worthless.


Leafs interested in Stamkos for 3rd rounder....

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