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Old
06-21-2012, 08:41 AM
  #51
Henkka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z40 View Post
Abby is a better hockey player than he showed last season. I'm not ready to give up on this guy yet. He has shown flashes of offensive potential. For whatever reason, he has drifted away from his game. Maybe he needs to stop trying to be an enforcer-type, and get back to playing his game. Picking up a fourth line center like Prust might not be such a bad idea. Abby would be better suited as a winger anyway.
Prust is not a center, he is more pure winger than Abdelkader ever is. Prust had total 5 faceoffs at last season. 9 faceoffs at season before.

***

If Prust is going to be too expensive, how about Brad Winchester? He is huge 6'5/230lbs and statistically is quite even from Prust. He had "only" 6 fights, but other stats doesn't differ at all. He could be 1 million cheaper, if the rumors about Prust getting ~2 million are true.

Pts/ice-time:

Abdelkader 0.119
Winchester 0.103
Prust 0.094

Hits/icetime:

Winchester 0.152
Abdelkader 0.150
Prust 0.148

Blocks/ice-time:

Prust 0.052
Abdelkader 0.043
Winchester 0.025

Takeaways/ice-time:

Winchester 0.025
Abdelkader 0.016
Prust 0.015

Penalties drawn/taken:

Abdelkader +1.5 -1.0 = +0.5
Prust +1.1 -0.9 = +0.2
Winchester +0.8 -1.9 = -1.1

Penalty ratio is only weakness at Winchester. But he is Bertuzzi-like big guy (slow?), maybe that comes from there. Another problem is that he doesn't play short-handed at all.

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06-21-2012, 08:48 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Of course he did, he was the 4th line center, I wouldn't expect him to be taking draws more frequently than the top 3.

He still had a better winning percentage than Z and Helm though. Of all the things you can criticize Abdelkader for, face-offs shouldn't be one.
That averages out to about 5 faceoffs a game. In a small sample size Abdelkdaer did pretty well. I want to see Abdelkdaer take double that and see what he can do. Just for reference, Darren Helm's first 2 years he averages about ~950 faceoffs.

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06-21-2012, 11:01 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
That averages out to about 5 faceoffs a game. In a small sample size Abdelkdaer did pretty well. I want to see Abdelkdaer take double that and see what he can do. Just for reference, Darren Helm's first 2 years he averages about ~950 faceoffs.
Except Helm has never been a regular 4th line center. He's had Draper playing behind him, and then Abdelkader.

It doesn't seem fair to judge Abdelkader on the standard of a 3rd line center when its not the role expected of him, or the role he's likely to get.

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06-21-2012, 11:14 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Except Helm has never been a regular 4th line center. He's had Draper playing behind him, and then Abdelkader.

It doesn't seem fair to judge Abdelkader on the standard of a 3rd line center when its not the role expected of him, or the role he's likely to get.
4th line centers take more than 5 faceoffs a game. If Abdelkdaer ends up being our 4th line center next year I'd like to see if he can retain the same FO%.

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06-21-2012, 11:41 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
4th line centers take more than 5 faceoffs a game. If Abdelkdaer ends up being our 4th line center next year I'd like to see if he can retain the same FO%.
Most don't actually, there are about 10-12 teams that have 4 centers taking more draws than Abdelkader. I'd also like to see him retain that % while taking a few more next year.

Maybe Sheahan will be better but I'd like to see him play a little in Grand Rapids before giving him a regular spot on the Wings.

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06-21-2012, 11:58 AM
  #56
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Look, we aren't moving Abby. It just isn't going to happen. That doesn't mean, however, that we can't sign Prust

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06-21-2012, 01:11 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Rzombo4 prez View Post
Look, we aren't moving Abby. It just isn't going to happen. That doesn't mean, however, that we can't sign Prust
i agree we actually need both

what we can spare is two of miller, eaves, emmerton and mursak

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06-21-2012, 01:17 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
4th line centers take more than 5 faceoffs a game. If Abdelkdaer ends up being our 4th line center next year I'd like to see if he can retain the same FO%.
But Abdelkader was partly of the season at wing. That doesn't show at full faceoff amounts if you look just stats from last season.

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06-21-2012, 01:21 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Rzombo4 prez View Post
Look, we aren't moving Abby. It just isn't going to happen. That doesn't mean, however, that we can't sign Prust
Yup. Abdelkader also has potential to become a 3rd liner in a perfect world. But I really want him as cheap as possible, because he hasn't shown he's more than a 4th liner for now. Hasn't justified a cent over $1.5M, and probably not even that. Miller-Abdelkader-Prust wouldn't be so bad for a 4th line.

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06-21-2012, 01:52 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Z40 View Post
He has shown flashes of offensive potential.
He has? When was that?

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06-21-2012, 02:04 PM
  #61
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Winchester, while a big body that can fight, doesn't play with half the intensity and heart that Prust does on a nightly basis. For that reason I'd take Prust over Winchester, even if he cost more.

As far as keeping Abdelkader and playing him on the 4th line with Prust, absolutely yes. The McCarty - Maltby comparison is spot on, and I think that removing the pressure to have to fight will allow Abs to play better.

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06-21-2012, 11:05 PM
  #62
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Lets not get carried away here.
Has Prust taken over for Aaron Asham as the habitual, plug, free agent, saviour amongst Wings fans?

He would be a useful 4th line add, at the right price. Maybe 1.2M ish.
Prust's footspeed leaves a lot to be desired... he's not as quick as Abdelkader.

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06-21-2012, 11:31 PM
  #63
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I would be totally cool with signing Prust, the big concern is if the Rangers are not offering him enough I don't see how he'd be worth what it would cost to sign him. Prust's next contract has a Brian Burke/Toronto overpayment written all over it.

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06-22-2012, 04:15 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
Lets not get carried away here.
Has Prust taken over for Aaron Asham as the habitual, plug, free agent, saviour amongst Wings fans?

He would be a useful 4th line add, at the right price. Maybe 1.2M ish.
Prust's footspeed leaves a lot to be desired... he's not as quick as Abdelkader.
Eh.

For the right price, he'd add an element of much-needed meanness to the bottom 6 that this team has lacked for years. I don't see how that's a bad thing. I mean, it's not like we're advocating George Parros or Jody Shelley or some other totally useless meathead with cinder block feet (well, maybe some people are, but don't actually take them seriously). He can play. He's not going to score you 20 goals or anything, but hell, the guy had more points than Emmerton last year, and he actually provides something useful beyond eating minutes.

With Gator due for that rumored $2m+ raise (ugh, just UGH), they probably won't have room for him anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it. If they actually sign a bottom 6 guy this summer, it'll be someone who's cheap as dirt, and just happy to have a job next season. At this point, my money's on Jeff Halpern, if he still wants to play. Fits the bill; a cheap vet who's decent on draws? I could see this happening.

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06-22-2012, 10:08 AM
  #65
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Emmerton was OK but I'd like to see what Joakim Andersson could do centering the 4th line. This is the first half season review of Andersson's game last year, via Griffins Central.

Quote:
Joakim Andersson B+
Andersson has always had the size and physical maturity, but some questioned his skating and offensive ability. So far this season he has silenced doubters on one score as his offensive game has come on line with 10 goals and 11 assists already meeting or exceeding last seasonís totals. He is defensively sound, uses his large frame well, and is not afraid of the rough stuff. The only thing separating him from the NHL is his skating which though improved, still needs some work.
Here is the second half report on him from Griffins Central.:

Quote:
Joakim Andersson A
Andersson continued his evolution into a top defensive forward, adding a consistent offensive element to his arsenal. He racked up 30 points in the second half while still playing a physical, defensively responsible game. It remains to be seen whether he has the speed or intensity to take his game to the next level, but he has certainly earned a chance to try.
If we're looking at a bunch of guys who aren't great skaters, why not go with Andersson, who has some skating issues of his own but is a good defensive forward, doesn't shy away from the physical part of the game, and has been a good faceoff guy? I'm guessing Prust is going to make between $2-$2.5 million. Andersson will make $875,000.

Oh that's right, he doesn't fight. I'd definitely take Prust on the team, the only issue is kind of a big one - he's going to get paid much more than what he brings to the table. I'm singing the exact same tune with Abdelkader, I would be very critical of Ken Holland if he pays Abdelkader anywhere close to $2 million. It's simply too much money. Instead I'd go with Andersson at center, Cleary on one wing, and then bring along someone else on the other wing. Hell, I'd give Sheahan a spot in the lineup and if he does't work out go with plan b.

At the end of the day the 4th line has got to have some size, some defensive skill, and an ability to be physical and forecheck. Cory Emmerton only has one of those traits while Cleary, Andersson and Sheahan have all of them. Abdelkader does too but you cannot overpay for what is in plentiful supply both in your own organization and throughout the league.

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06-22-2012, 11:40 AM
  #66
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Eh.

For the right price, he'd add an element of much-needed meanness to the bottom 6 that this team has lacked for years. I don't see how that's a bad thing. I mean, it's not like we're advocating George Parros or Jody Shelley or some other totally useless meathead with cinder block feet (well, maybe some people are, but don't actually take them seriously). He can play. He's not going to score you 20 goals or anything, but hell, the guy had more points than Emmerton last year, and he actually provides something useful beyond eating minutes.

With Gator due for that rumored $2m+ raise (ugh, just UGH), they probably won't have room for him anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it. If they actually sign a bottom 6 guy this summer, it'll be someone who's cheap as dirt, and just happy to have a job next season. At this point, my money's on Jeff Halpern, if he still wants to play. Fits the bill; a cheap vet who's decent on draws? I could see this happening.
Prust will be making more money than Abdelkader next year,you can book that.
I don't see Abdelkader getting THAT much of a raise. 2M?? I thought gator actually regressed last year.. until teh playoffs where he had his moments. Abdelkader at center was brutal last year.

If were looking at old guys like Halpern, I'd prefer Rolston on the cheap.

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06-22-2012, 04:14 PM
  #67
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Wings need bottom line grit so naturally Jeff Halpern or the failed,but local boy, Brian Rolston fits? If the Wings miss out on Prust, think guys like Moen, Glass or Burish. The wings need to get a bit meaner on their bottom 2 lines.

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06-22-2012, 04:38 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Prust's next contract has a Brian Burke/Toronto overpayment written all over it.
I'd love to have Prust on the Wings, but I can also see Burke making a big push for him. He's from London, and if my buddy isn't ************, he still has family in the area, so both locations would fit him seeing how London is pretty much halfway between both cities.

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06-22-2012, 05:10 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Prust is not a center, he is more pure winger than Abdelkader ever is. Prust had total 5 faceoffs at last season. 9 faceoffs at season before.
My mistake. I'm not well-versed on Prust.

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06-23-2012, 09:24 AM
  #70
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according to reports being quoted in the rangers' forum, prust looks like he's gone from nyr. seems that he wants 2.2mil per for 3 years, and even rangers fans who love him agree that's too much. if the cap goes up to 70mil then imo it isn't thaaat awful, but paying 2mil+ to both prust and abdelkader might not be the route we want to go down.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz1ybF8LGPk

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06-23-2012, 09:53 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Chris 84 View Post
according to reports being quoted in the rangers' forum, prust looks like he's gone from nyr. seems that he wants 2.2mil per for 3 years, and even rangers fans who love him agree that's too much. if the cap goes up to 70mil then imo it isn't thaaat awful, but paying 2mil+ to both prust and abdelkader might not be the route we want to go down.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz1ybF8LGPk
Yeah, he's not coming here for that kind of money. He'll get it from Toronto or Philly maybe.

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06-23-2012, 10:01 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Chris 84 View Post
according to reports being quoted in the rangers' forum, prust looks like he's gone from nyr. seems that he wants 2.2mil per for 3 years, and even rangers fans who love him agree that's too much. if the cap goes up to 70mil then imo it isn't thaaat awful, but paying 2mil+ to both prust and abdelkader might not be the route we want to go down.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz1ybF8LGPk
I think I would go as high as 2 million per year for three years, but getting higher than that is a little iffy. Detroit is a place that he might come to because of how close it is to his hometown, its only about 2 hours away.

Toronto and Buffalo are both fairly close as well, but I cant see Toronto giving him that much when they already have Mike Brown and Leo Komarov coming over this year. Buffalo might though, I'm not really sure. Detroit is closer to London however

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06-23-2012, 01:09 PM
  #73
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I think I would go as high as 2 million per year for three years, but getting higher than that is a little iffy. Detroit is a place that he might come to because of how close it is to his hometown, its only about 2 hours away.

Toronto and Buffalo are both fairly close as well, but I cant see Toronto giving him that much when they already have Mike Brown and Leo Komarov coming over this year. Buffalo might though, I'm not really sure. Detroit is closer to London however
I could see him returning to Calgary. He was a big fan favorite and enjoyed his time there. Tom Kostopolous replacement.

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