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Old
06-20-2012, 07:37 PM
  #426
joe89
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Originally Posted by Kronwalled55 View Post
A lot of great deals so far this offseason. Not many overpaying, not a lot of steals. Although this will probably (ok, it will be) out the window once the wallets really open July 1st.
Yup, kinda expected for players sticking with their teams. Many players are willing to take a fair deal to stay if they got a family etc. The interesting deals are yet to come I'm sure.

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06-20-2012, 07:40 PM
  #427
WingedWheel1987
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Karlsson wins his first Norris trophy. Weber gets robbed again.

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06-20-2012, 09:26 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Karlsson wins his first Norris trophy. Weber gets robbed again.
Karlsson deserved it way more

he dominated defensive scoring more than anyone has since Paul Coffey all the way back in 1988-89 when he was playing with a peak Mario Lemieux(that was the year Lemieux scored 199 points)

nice to see the voters get this one right,good for him

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06-20-2012, 09:30 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
Karlsson deserved it way more

he dominated defensive scoring more than anyone has since Paul Coffey all the way back in 1988-89 when he was playing with a peak Mario Lemieux(that was the year Lemieux scored 199 points)

nice to see the voters get this one right,good for him
Got no problem with Karlsson winning.
But Weber is the best defenseman in the game right now.

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06-20-2012, 09:30 PM
  #430
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I just can't really get into a Norris winner that doesn't play the PK.

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06-20-2012, 09:35 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
Karlsson deserved it way more

he dominated defensive scoring more than anyone has since Paul Coffey all the way back in 1988-89 when he was playing with a peak Mario Lemieux(that was the year Lemieux scored 199 points)

nice to see the voters get this one right,good for him
ehhh agree to disagree.

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06-21-2012, 02:10 AM
  #432
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Awards are mostly a joke. It's about half who deserves it, and half popularity contest because not every voter watches every nominee. Karlsson winning the Norris just proves we need a Selke style version of an award for offensive defensemen. Because Chara deserved it, with Weber deserving it a little less but still more than Karlsson.

Nevermind his defense for a second, that's obvious. Chara did what he did without the benefit of a bunch of forwards getting him second assists. Karlsson had some serious offensive firepower finishing for him, Chara didn't. Weber didn't either and he got 20 goals. Of course it's not all his offense, but his point totals are overrated. I'll take a Chara or Weber scoring 50 points and locking down their side, over a guy scoring 78 and being pretty mediocre in his own end.

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06-21-2012, 10:56 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by GentlemanMasher View Post
Awards are mostly a joke. It's about half who deserves it, and half popularity contest because not every voter watches every nominee. Karlsson winning the Norris just proves we need a Selke style version of an award for offensive defensemen. Because Chara deserved it, with Weber deserving it a little less but still more than Karlsson.

Nevermind his defense for a second, that's obvious. Chara did what he did without the benefit of a bunch of forwards getting him second assists. Karlsson had some serious offensive firepower finishing for him, Chara didn't. Weber didn't either and he got 20 goals. Of course it's not all his offense, but his point totals are overrated. I'll take a Chara or Weber scoring 50 points and locking down their side, over a guy scoring 78 and being pretty mediocre in his own end.
Weber and Chara split the vote on one another. So Karlsson barely squeaked by with the win.

Just the way voting works, but it doesn't make it a joke... Karlsson still had an unbelievable year.

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06-21-2012, 11:13 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by GentlemanMasher View Post
Awards are mostly a joke. It's about half who deserves it, and half popularity contest because not every voter watches every nominee. Karlsson winning the Norris just proves we need a Selke style version of an award for offensive defensemen. Because Chara deserved it, with Weber deserving it a little less but still more than Karlsson.

Nevermind his defense for a second, that's obvious. Chara did what he did without the benefit of a bunch of forwards getting him second assists. Karlsson had some serious offensive firepower finishing for him, Chara didn't. Weber didn't either and he got 20 goals. Of course it's not all his offense, but his point totals are overrated. I'll take a Chara or Weber scoring 50 points and locking down their side, over a guy scoring 78 and being pretty mediocre in his own end.
Boston scored 20 more goals than Ottawa, and Nashville 10 less. The firepower you would be talking about would be Spezza, becase Karlsson had 18 more points than Michalek and 19 more points than Alfie. Chara had five forwards ahead of him in points, and Weber had three.

I had Weber as my winner, but using teams as an argument in this case in nonsensical. Both Nashville and Boston were better teams than Ottawa. Karlsson helped Ottawa's offense way more than their offense helped him. He runs that offense, it's glaringly obvious whenever you watch them play. As I said I had Weber, but in a sense Karlsson dominated this season. At some point offense makes up for defense even for blueliners.

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06-21-2012, 01:14 PM
  #435
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^It's not nonsensical. We overvalue his point total when it's mostly assists from Spezza, Michalek and Alfie. I don't care what team had more goals, Karlsson could feed it to some serious scorers and Chara/Weber for the most part couldn't. I didn't say it was the sole reason but people here only read what they want to read. Who were Boston's scorers? Seguin with what, something like 65 points? No one had more than 28 goals on that team IIRC. Nashville was even worse, did anyone even crack 55 points? 60? 28 goals?

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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
Weber and Chara split the vote on one another. So Karlsson barely squeaked by with the win.

Just the way voting works, but it doesn't make it a joke... Karlsson still had an unbelievable year.
Yeah, points wise. I still think the Norris should be more about D than O. Offense should be more of a qualifier than a decider. Chara and Weber were both better. No matter how refined we like to act most of us are still stupid for shiny things. We just can't bring ourselves to look past a silly overhyped point total. After years of coming close, a defenseman who can't play defense has actually won the Norris. This **** is embarrassing. Weber scored more goals than Karlsson, something I will give more credit to than a bunch of second assists. Imagine if Weber could just toss it up to the kind of scorers Karlsson could? Or lob one from the point and grab an assist when it gets potted in the crease? Weber had 50 points and the Preds offense sucked. Because that's what I'm talking about, not the team standings. If you're curious why the teams were higher in the standings despite all of this, you might want to look on the back end. Had Karlsson played a little better defense maybe their team would've finished a bit higher. Offense should get you some cash, some recognition, some praise, but it shouldn't get you an award for playing defense. That's laughable and the voters got it horribly wrong.

Even the Senators knew the guy was limited defensively. He averaged 25 min a game or so, but go look at when they were defending leads or killing penalties. He wasn't out there. What's more "all around", Chara and Weber scoring 50 and locking down their ice? Or Karlsson scoring 78 and being too poor defensively to play in any important situations?

The reality nowadays, if you look around at interviews, pieces written on high profile websites, etc., is that it's as much about selling the player as it is about having a good year. Patrice Bergeron was good but he shouldn't have run away with the Selke, not even close. But he had seemingly a posse of teammates constantly selling the idea of "it's his time to win" non stop. I'm not naive enough to think that doesn't influence voters. Backes got more votes than Pav and he wasn't even close to being as good as Pav. Sometimes you can just feel the voters going for the new thing instead of the tired old name, especially when the old name didn't play as well but still played better than his competition.


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06-21-2012, 02:13 PM
  #436
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https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...69294351876097

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Several GMs I've talked to today somewhat frustrated at the lack of traction in trade talks... Perhaps things will loosen up tomorrow...

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06-21-2012, 04:05 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by GentlemanMasher View Post
Chara and Weber were both better.
And more people voted for Chara and Weber, combined, than voted for Karlsson by a country mile. But the vote got split and Karlsson BARELY won over Weber.

If anything, the even distribution of voting shows that a lot of people agree with you.



Contrast that with Hart voting. Not even CLOSE.


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06-21-2012, 04:16 PM
  #438
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He averaged 25 min a game or so, but go look at when they were defending leads or killing penalties. He wasn't out there.
Do you have some stats about this?

Because imo, it seemed like he was on the ice pretty often when they were leading and doing some pk if only few mins were left on the third period and so on.

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06-21-2012, 06:46 PM
  #439
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I'm at work I'll dig it up later. But it was confirmed, dude barely ever played when protecting a lead. Sens fans admitted it. And his PK time was for all intents and purposes, non existent.

He doesn't block shots. He had almost 100 giveaways. He doesn't hit. He doesn't protect leads. He doesn't kill penalties. He can't clear ice space whatsoever. He can't play defense, and he now has won the same award Nicklas Lidstrom has won. Because his forwards got him a ton of assists. And he beat Zdeno Chara and Shea Weber to do it.

What an absolutely embarrassing joke.

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06-21-2012, 06:50 PM
  #440
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I'm at work I'll dig it up later. But it was confirmed, dude barely ever played when protecting a lead. Sens fans admitted it. And his PK time was for all intents and purposes, non existent.

He doesn't block shots. He had almost 100 giveaways. He doesn't hit. He doesn't protect leads. He doesn't kill penalties. He can't clear ice space whatsoever. He can't play defense, and he now has won the same award Nicklas Lidstrom has won. Because his forwards got him a ton of assists. And he beat Zdeno Chara and Shea Weber to do it.

What an absolutely embarrassing joke.
Yeah, but he scored 78 points. Norris trophy has turned into a joke. Lidstrom shouldnt have won last year, but he got screwed earlier in his career so it all evened out.

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06-21-2012, 07:00 PM
  #441
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I had no problem with Nick winning. He scored enough and played better D than his competitors. The rest of the team was lazy as hell and did their best to make him look bad but he was great. I just don't think we need awards at all. It's just hype and marketing.

It's like the Oscars-why should we care about what a bunch of stubborn old men think? You know they let bloggers vote now? Puck daddy has a vote. I've seen more knowledgeable people on hfboards. Seriously.

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06-21-2012, 07:05 PM
  #442
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Yeah, but he scored 78 points. Norris trophy has turned into a joke. Lidstrom shouldnt have won last year, but he got screwed earlier in his career so it all evened out.
Agreed. If they're going to give out the Norris for offense, they should have one for the best at playing defense.

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06-21-2012, 08:53 PM
  #443
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Tough break for Weber but he'll get his dues soon enough. Karlsson's season was too much to overlook. I can't see him hitting those numbers again.

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06-21-2012, 10:17 PM
  #444
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When Karlsson was on the ice his team was on the attack and in the opponents zone, that is very valuable - more so than something like blocked shots.

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06-21-2012, 10:19 PM
  #445
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^Yeah Ottawa should put some forwards out on the ice so they can score.

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06-22-2012, 06:13 AM
  #446
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LeBrooooon

Haters gonna hate


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06-22-2012, 10:27 AM
  #447
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Haven't heard any talk about the Heat... Then again, didn't bother to listen any further past Bakita and Bently this morning, so Dan Patrick might've been talking about it... Eh, the King finally has his ring. Dwade has two, though.

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06-22-2012, 10:51 AM
  #448
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LeBrooooon

Haters gonna hate

Who cares?

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06-22-2012, 11:51 AM
  #449
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LeBrooooon

Haters gonna hate

I'm sorry...did I miss something, or did LeBron get really good at hockey that this is in the NHL thread?

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06-22-2012, 03:29 PM
  #450
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If Columbus thinks Bobrovski = Our goaltending situation is set; then they're really screwed.

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