People talk about Bobby Ryan's production like he's scoring a PPG. Despite playing off and on with Getzlaf and Perry, he's still only putting up:
2008-09 Anaheim Ducks NHL 64 31 26 57
2009-10 Anaheim Ducks NHL 81 35 29 64
2010-11 Anaheim Ducks NHL 82 34 37 71
2011-12 Anaheim Ducks NHL 82 31 26 57
Don't get me wrong, I'd trade Staal for him, but there's an awful lot of hyberbole being thrown around for a guy that had 7 more points than Staal in 19 more games with far superior linemates.
I might be mistaking but IIRC he doesn't play with those 2, he plays with Selanne on the 2nd line
I love Staal but if he doesn't want to stay Ryan is definitely 1 guy i'd try to get for him
It's possible, but that blueline corps is absolutely atrocious. Even assuming Orpik bounces back in a huge way (which is a big assumption), having Engelland and Niskanen as our second pairing is awful.
I don't think it's a whole lot worse considering how bad Martin and Michalek can play sometimes. I think the pairing of Bortuzzo and Despres has a lot of potential. Could even throw Strait or possibly Morrow on the second pairing (next to Nisky), depending on how they look at camp. It'd be pretty green on the backend, but there still would be a lot of depth, options and potential, I think.
I don't think it's a whole lot worse considering how bad Martin and Michalek can play sometimes. I think the pairing of Bortuzzo and Despres has a lot of potential. Could even throw Strait or possibly Morrow on the second pairing (next to Nisky), depending on how they look at camp. It'd be pretty green on the backend, but there still would be a lot of depth, options and potential, I think.
I just don't see why it would be necessary to get rid of both Martin and Michalek. We aren't THAT cap strapped. I'd move TK and/or Cooke before Michalek if we need a little more space.
I might be mistaking but IIRC he doesn't play with those 2, he plays with Selanne on the 2nd line
I love Staal but if he doesn't want to stay Ryan is definitely 1 guy i'd try to get for him
I can't say with 100% certainty, but a majority of Ryan's mins do come with those 2. He has taken some shifts on that 2nd line though, and he has also played some center too, IIRC.
Staal only makes sense for Anaheim, if their making Ryan available is a move specifically to reel in a second line center and they do already know that and at what price the can re-sign Getzlaf and Perry. In that case there is nothing uneconomical about giving Staal a million more than Roy or Pavelski or whoever else may be available. If their reason is a speculated to get deeper and cheaper, that they are going to take on a top center prospect + several other assets instead.
not a scoring winger signed for 3 years vs a center signed for 1 though.
That's also putting Staal's best year against Ryan's worst. Like I said, I think the value of the players alone is very very close. But Ryan has the much more desirable contract situation.
contract status doesn't matter nearly as much as people around here act. I just posted a list of DEADLINE deals yesterday for rentals that had great returns. Doug weight to Carolina, tkatchuk to Atlanta, hossa here, kaberle to Boston, and so on. Then add in Brent burns was just in the same situation last year and he fetched a 25 goal scorer, a legit top prospect, and a first.
Staals value as a franchise center is much higher than that of a scoring winger, regardless of contract status. And more teams are in need of a staal than a Ryan, for sure.
Even if Ryan gets time with Koivu/Selanne, those are two FAR superior players than Cooke and Kennedy. IIRC, he plays with them most of the time but does spend various shifts throughout the game with Getzlaf and Perry.
Assuming Staal could be traded straight up for either Evander Kane or Bobby Ryan, which would you guys want?
Shero will inevitably offer him a contract. What Staal does when the ball is in his court will speak volumes.
I just don't want to end up spending most of our cap on just 3 centers. I hope Shero sees it that way too, and won't offer him the moon. We'll see...
This would all be a moo point (it's like a cows opinion ) if Staal had shown he could play wing in Bylsma's system. He never really got that shot though. If he could play wing as well as center, then I'd be all for giving him $6M+.
Even if Ryan gets time with Koivu/Selanne, those are two FAR superior players than Cooke and Kennedy. IIRC, he plays with them most of the time but does spend various shifts throughout the game with Getzlaf and Perry.
Assuming Staal could be traded straight up for either Evander Kane or Bobby Ryan, which would you guys want?
Tough choice - but I'd almost say Ryan just because he (1) locked up until 14-15 at a nice cap hit and (2) he has the right-hand shot that we really need to get the PP going.
contract status doesn't matter nearly as much as people around here act. I just posted a list of DEADLINE deals yesterday for rentals that had great returns. Doug weight to Carolina, tkatchuk to Atlanta, hossa here, kaberle to Boston, and so on. Then add in Brent burns was just in the same situation last year and he fetched a 25 goal scorer, a legit top prospect, and a first.
Staals value as a franchise center is much higher than that of a scoring winger, regardless of contract status. And more teams are in need of a staal than a Ryan, for sure.
I'm not great at trade value, I just look at them based on if I would be willing to do it or not. And I'd be willing to add a little. If we wouldn't have to, great
Tough choice - but I'd almost say Ryan just because he (1) locked up until 14-15 at a nice cap hit and (2) he has the right-hand shot that we really need to get the PP going.
i'd pick Ryan aswell, plus hes signed at a good deal for 3 more seasons
Ryan played a good bit of time with their rookies on their "third" line. I have little doubt he pushes 100 pts here flanking Sid and getting prime PP opportunity.
But again, if Anaheim is looking to add multiple pieces, we aren't the right trade partner.
If that's the case, we'd probably have better luck putting together a monster package of Staal++ for Perry if the Ducks can't afford his next contract.
Even if Ryan gets time with Koivu/Selanne, those are two FAR superior players than Cooke and Kennedy. IIRC, he plays with them most of the time but does spend various shifts throughout the game with Getzlaf and Perry.
Staal didn't spend most of last year with Cooke and Kennedy though. He spent the bulk of it with at least one of Dupuis or Sullivan and the most productive part with both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane
Assuming Staal could be traded straight up for either Evander Kane or Bobby Ryan, which would you guys want?
I honestly don't watch either enough to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBurgundy
This would all be a moo point (it's like a cows opinion ) if Staal had shown he could play wing in Bylsma's system. He never really got that shot though. If he could play wing as well as center, then I'd be all for giving him $6M+.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius
Tough choice - but I'd almost say Ryan just because he (1) locked up until 14-15 at a nice cap hit and (2) he has the right-hand shot that we really need to get the PP going.
Good points. So...Ryan I guess. But I still don't know enough about Kane to really have a fair opinion.
I don't think it's a whole lot worse considering how bad Martin and Michalek can play sometimes. I think the pairing of Bortuzzo and Despres has a lot of potential. Could even throw Strait or possibly Morrow on the second pairing (next to Nisky), depending on how they look at camp. It'd be pretty green on the backend, but there still would be a lot of depth, options and potential, I think.
Well you think wrong. Martin - z to niskanen - engo is a major, major, major downgrade. Niskanen is so overrated right now its amazing. Martin, z, and Lovejoy all had injury riddled career worst years. And Orpik struggled down the stretch. Imo niskanen only looked as good because they all looked terrible. And having only 2 points more than Orpik, and 3 more than engo, while playing more games than both and seeing ample pp time is pretty bad for a "puck moving" d man.
Niskanen really isn't good enough to be a top 4 guy, offensively or defensively. And my goodness, for a small guy is he a slow skater. I will say he was very consistent this year, but considering his matchups , production, and minutes, I dont see how he was anything more than average. If he signs for anything over 2 mil I'll officially lose faith in Shero. And going with that 2 mil number, niskanen pretty much is the Kennedy of our d.
Well you think wrong. Martin - z to niskanen - engo is a major, major, major downgrade. Niskanen is so overrated right now its amazing. Martin, z, and Lovejoy all had injury riddled career worst years. And Orpik struggled down the stretch. Imo niskanen only looked as good because they all looked terrible. And having only 2 points more than Orpik, and 3 more than engo, while playing more games than both and seeing ample pp time is pretty bad for a "puck moving" d man.
Niskanen really isn't good enough to be a top 4 guy, offensively or defensively. And my goodness, for a small guy is he a slow skater. I will say he was very consistent this year, but considering his matchups , production, and minutes, I dont see how he was anything more than average. If he signs for anything over 2 mil I'll officially lose faith in Shero. And going with that 2 mil number, niskanen pretty much is the Kennedy of our d.
I don't have a problem with Niskanen, but he is the obvious odd man out as soon as Morrow is ready to come up. I fully expect Despres to jump him in the line-up pretty quickly this year. Honestly, if he was given a roster spot Morrow probably would too.
Even if Ryan gets time with Koivu/Selanne, those are two FAR superior players than Cooke and Kennedy. IIRC, he plays with them most of the time but does spend various shifts throughout the game with Getzlaf and Perry.
Assuming Staal could be traded straight up for either Evander Kane or Bobby Ryan, which would you guys want?
As good as Kane is likely to be, I'd take Ryan. He's more proven, a RH shot, and will be money on the left wall of the PP. It's close, though.
I would be fine with Setoguchi + Clutterbuck + 7th overall for Staal. But if Staal for Ryan is on the table as well, there's no brainer I would take Ryan.
You just can't pass on the opportunity to get player like Bobby Ryan. I still think he's better forward than James Neal.
I just don't see why it would be necessary to get rid of both Martin and Michalek. We aren't THAT cap strapped. I'd move TK and/or Cooke before Michalek if we need a little more space.
I thought we were a little more cap-strapped than we are. But if don't have to trade both to make those moves then I wouldn't. Or maybe we could move both of them and then sign Parise AND Suter. You don't need to tell me that's pretty unlikely, just let me live in my fantasyland for now.
I thought we were a little more cap-strapped than we are. But if don't have to trade both to make those moves then I wouldn't. Or maybe we could move both of them and then sign Parise AND Suter. You don't need to tell me that's pretty unlikely, just let me live in my fantasyland for now.
Staal didn't spend most of last year with Cooke and Kennedy though. He spent the bulk of it with at least one of Dupuis or Sullivan and the most productive part with both.
I think my point still stands
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For me, I'm taking Kane over Perry. His next contract probably won't be as much as Ryan is making now (or right around it) and he'd be a huge physical presence on a line with Sid. Plus, he's 4 years younger.
I would be fine with Setoguchi + Clutterbuck + 7th overall for Staal. But if Staal for Ryan is on the table as well, there's no brainer I would take Ryan.
You just can't pass on the opportunity to get player like Bobby Ryan. I still think he's better forward than James Neal.
Again, I don't understand this. As a last resort deal, sure, but why would anyone be happy with that package for Staal? Setoguchi is a massive gamble to return to a form that wasn't even all-world anyway, and I couldn't really give a damn less about Clutterbuck and the 7th. That package does not make us a better team, barring we sign Parise or Suter in free agency.
) if Staal had shown he could play wing in Bylsma's system. He never really got that shot though. If he could play wing as well as center, then I'd be all for giving him $6M+.
