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Old
06-20-2012, 11:20 AM
  #76
Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
The numbers on the matter actually support both sides of this debate. Karlsson was used as Ottawa's toughest competition unit. However his and Kuba's quality of competition metrics are far below the norm for a typical tough minutes pairing. They didn't hard match him against strong opponents like teams usually do with their best defensive pairing. Which makes sense, his talents are biased towards offense.

http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/5/30/top-defensive-pairings

Notice how Karlsson is off in the bottom right hand corner. He qualifies for a shutdown pairing but was probably the most lightly used of all such beasts in the NHL last year.

So he played tough minutes but not Chara, Weber, Bouwmester, Subban or Phaneuf tough minutes.


That said its a decent contract for Ottawa. Karlsson is a quality defenseman. I wouldn't worry too much about Subban's contract. Scoring totals always end up a factor in these things even if players are relatively equal in actual value (which I think Karlsson and Subban are, hardly anyone factors in Subban's ridiculous value as a top level penalty killer for example).
There are those who complain about Plekanec's stats despite his excellent D and penalty killing.

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Old
06-20-2012, 01:32 PM
  #77
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Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
Selon des sources provenant de Long Island, tout indique que PA Parenteau deviendra joueur autonome sans compensation le 1er juillet.

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Old
06-20-2012, 04:43 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
I've seen Cowen go up against Ovechkin (my example was more Kovalchuk in particular because it's one of the games that sticks in my head) many many times (same with Phillips though he showed signs of wear).

Obviously Karlsson logged alot of minutes with the sens top offensive lines. He's not going to be entirely sheltered from the superstars of the league...same as Spezza; however it is advantageous to put him in a situation where he won't get plugged in the defensive zone for his entire shift and those are the situations that Maclean tried to put him in....smart coaching.

I'd love to see that and measure how accurate it is.


If you're going to get paid Norris-Calibre money, shouldn't you play Norris-Calibre hockey for a while?
Dude, you're so far off reality. Karlsson was matched very strictly against Giroux and Ovechkin this season. Giroux had like 1 point in 4 games against Ottawa.

McLean's interview yesterday only supports my argument. He realizes (and said) that offensive numbers are one thing, but playing against top lines and doing a good job is what makes him astounding. Now, are you going to say that he's lying too?

He's played his worst games against Montreal, Boston (getting better) and Vancouver in his career. Maybe add Toronto to that list too.

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Old
06-20-2012, 06:12 PM
  #79
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Dude, you're so far off reality. Karlsson was matched very strictly against Giroux and Ovechkin this season. Giroux had like 1 point in 4 games against Ottawa.

McLean's interview yesterday only supports my argument. He realizes (and said) that offensive numbers are one thing, but playing against top lines and doing a good job is what makes him astounding. Now, are you going to say that he's lying too?

He's played his worst games against Montreal, Boston (getting better) and Vancouver in his career. Maybe add Toronto to that list too.
I will wait and see what Karlsson is going to do in the next few years. He was very ordinary in the playoff last year. 1 single point in 7 games? Other team start to check him more and I don't think he can produce at close to 80 pts regularly.

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06-20-2012, 06:17 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
I will wait and see what Karlsson is going to do in the next few years. He was very ordinary in the playoff last year. 1 single point in 7 games? Other team start to check him more and I don't think he can produce at close to 80 pts regularly.
And Alfie will be gone in not too long.

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06-20-2012, 06:20 PM
  #81
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I wish we had Karlsson and some other young gems off that Ottawa roster. That is a strong up and coming team. The game 5 in NY where they beat the Rangers was my favorite game of the playoffs.

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06-20-2012, 06:22 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Serbian Power View Post
Dude, you're so far off reality. Karlsson was matched very strictly against Giroux and Ovechkin this season. Giroux had like 1 point in 4 games against Ottawa.

McLean's interview yesterday only supports my argument. He realizes (and said) that offensive numbers are one thing, but playing against top lines and doing a good job is what makes him astounding. Now, are you going to say that he's lying too?

He's played his worst games against Montreal, Boston (getting better) and Vancouver in his career. Maybe add Toronto to that list too.
He's never been astounding defensively and especially one-on-one. There's a lot of room for improvement.

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06-20-2012, 06:23 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
I will wait and see what Karlsson is going to do in the next few years. He was very ordinary in the playoff last year. 1 single point in 7 games? Other team start to check him more and I don't think he can produce at close to 80 pts regularly.
22 years old.

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06-20-2012, 06:24 PM
  #84
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I wish we had Karlsson and some other young gems off that Ottawa roster. That is a strong up and coming team. The game 5 in NY where they beat the Rangers was my favorite game of the playoffs.
Karlsson is a great player. Cowen, Zibanejad, Silfvberg (no idea how tospell it ), Stone, Wiercoich (****ed up spelling again and not as high as the others, but still solid) Puempel, and then more.

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Old
06-20-2012, 06:31 PM
  #85
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22 years old.
You really think he can produce 80 pts year in year out? He may be young but I don't think he can.

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Old
06-20-2012, 07:55 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
You really think he can produce 80 pts year in year out? He may be young but I don't think he can.
He will perfect different aspects of his game as he matures both mentally and physically, he will be checked harder this year because he's now on the radar so to speak, much like Subban was this year. Karlsson has great speed and vision and will progress defensively and it can't hurt to have a guy behind the bench that spent lots of time with Lidstrom to guide his career along.

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Old
06-21-2012, 07:33 AM
  #87
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im fuming just reading the karlsson/norris award... senators fans making Gordian knots of of their panties, reciting as many memes as humanly possible in an attempt to look edgy and creating yet another HFBoards™ dichotomy. no semblance of discussion, just a teenage-like shouting match peppered with the occasional red herrings, ad hominems and of course, strawmens. lots of them.

not ottawa fan = "[John Doe] deserved it more."
ottawa fans = "LOLHATER!"

"i ain't even mad"

right...

posting this, i fully expect our half-a-dozen senator fans lurker to come out at me with more memes and labeling me a hater but **** you, i don't think he deserved it. "best all-around defensman" he is not. having that many points since god knows when - and it is an accomplishement - is what sealed the deal for him and not by much looking at the voting.

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Old
06-21-2012, 07:57 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
im fuming just reading the karlsson/norris award... senators fans making Gordian knots of of their panties, reciting as many memes as humanly possible in an attempt to look edgy and creating yet another HFBoards™ dichotomy. no semblance of discussion, just a teenage-like shouting match peppered with the occasional red herrings, ad hominems and of course, strawmens. lots of them.

not ottawa fan = "[John Doe] deserved it more."
ottawa fans = "LOLHATER!"

"i ain't even mad"

right...

posting this, i fully expect our half-a-dozen senator fans lurker to come out at me with more memes and labeling me a hater but **** you, i don't think he deserved it. "best all-around defensman" he is not. having that many points since god knows when - and it is an accomplishement - is what sealed the deal for him and not by much looking at the voting.
I think the reason for it is because the arguments were made for both sides ad-nauseum all throughout the season, and the points made were good. We were catching a lot of heat all season as many felt we were overhyping him. The award just shows that we weren't. I wouldn't take the thread on the main board too seriously

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06-21-2012, 01:27 PM
  #89
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I wouldn't take anything on the mainboards seriously. Like, ever.

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Old
06-21-2012, 01:29 PM
  #90
Et le But
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I wouldn't take anything on the mainboards seriously. Like, ever.
Not even threads about Kessel, Phaneuf and/or Gardiner? Those are always so rational and balanced though!

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Old
06-21-2012, 02:03 PM
  #91
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Not even threads about Kessel, Phaneuf and/or Gardiner? Those are always so rational and balanced though!
Not as rational or balanced as Subban threads.

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Old
06-21-2012, 03:18 PM
  #92
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One of the reporters on TSN Sports Radio said Ottawa offered Zibanejad Foligno 1st plus another pieve for Nash...ouch.

Phillie apparently offered Couturier JVR 1st and Bobrovsky.

Crazy offers!

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Old
06-21-2012, 03:33 PM
  #93
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One of the reporters on TSN Sports Radio said Ottawa offered Zibanejad Foligno 1st plus another pieve for Nash...ouch.

Phillie apparently offered Couturier JVR 1st and Bobrovsky.

Crazy offers!
I think nash puts up a career year with whomever he gets traded to

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Old
06-21-2012, 03:34 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
One of the reporters on TSN Sports Radio said Ottawa offered Zibanejad Foligno 1st plus another pieve for Nash...ouch.

Phillie apparently offered Couturier JVR 1st and Bobrovsky.

Crazy offers!
Can't see Philly moving Couturier, kid was a beast in the playoffs.

That said its going to take some crazy over payment to get Nash, going after Ryan first would be the smarter option.

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Old
06-21-2012, 03:39 PM
  #95
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Ottawa is not on Nash's list though so he would have to accept a move there

Would be huge for the Sens

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Old
06-21-2012, 03:40 PM
  #96
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I think nash puts up a career year with whomever he gets traded to
Maybe he will but I don't see him living up to those packages long term.

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Old
06-21-2012, 03:40 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
One of the reporters on TSN Sports Radio said Ottawa offered Zibanejad Foligno 1st plus another pieve for Nash...ouch.

Phillie apparently offered Couturier JVR 1st and Bobrovsky.

Crazy offers!
That Philly offer is a hell of a lot better than Ottawa's, that's for sure.

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Old
06-21-2012, 03:43 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
That Philly offer is a hell of a lot better than Ottawa's, that's for sure.
Philly can afford that. Sure losing Couturier would suck but they still have Giroux at center and Schenn coming up.

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Old
06-21-2012, 03:44 PM
  #99
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That Philly offer is a hell of a lot better than Ottawa's, that's for sure.
They must feel bad for Columbus and the horrible trade of last summer before the draft

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Old
06-21-2012, 04:00 PM
  #100
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Philly can afford that. Sure losing Couturier would suck but they still have Giroux at center and Schenn coming up.
They can afford it but LA won with depth, that would cost Phillie a lot of their depth. Plus they have MUCH bigger needs on defense as well as quality role players(Gaustad?)

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