HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

The Offseason Thread Part VIII: The Ballad of Ricky (and) Bobby

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-21-2012, 07:39 PM
  #276
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calle62 View Post
Dreger apparently said Ryan is the Rangers' plan B, behind Nash.

Why is Ryan not plan A? That's dumb as hell.
Ryan would cost stepan that's probably why

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:39 PM
  #277
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
He is NOT Staal quality. Dubinsky also wasn't a 24 year old UFA.
He was a 25 year old ufa? Is it that much of a difference?

And at the time yes he was. He added similar production to Staal's while also adding in the same grit, intensity, and defensive abilities.

Rust Heisenberg is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:40 PM
  #278
CH2
Registered User
 
CH2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NH
Posts: 1,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
My guess Ryan will cost a prospect, roster player, pick.
Probably two roster players, a prospect, and a pick. Maybe DZ, Dubinsky/Anisimov, Miller and two 1sts?

CH2 is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:40 PM
  #279
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Ryan would cost stepan that's probably why
If the plan was to trade Stepan, a 1st, and a prospect like Miller and then sign Staal next summer, would you be opposed?

Rust Heisenberg is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:40 PM
  #280
turcotte8
Registered User
 
turcotte8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
He was a 25 year old ufa? Is it that much of a difference?

And at the time yes he was. He added similar production to Staal's while also adding in the same grit, intensity, and defensive abilities.
Dubi was never a UFA. Always a RFA, he had no other options and got 4+ million. Just being a UFA adds 1-2 million per year due to the open market.

turcotte8 is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:41 PM
  #281
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,811
vCash: 500
Jordan Staal isn't as cut and dry as many of you are making it. Very misleading with the posts. Yes, never had more than 50 pts... convenient reporting. 50 points this year in 62 games. He has always gotten the checking role, 3rd line minutes, 3rd line wings. Nash gets the talent excuse, yet Staal is lucky to play with Asham and Dupuis.

This season Staal got top 6 minutes with Crosby out, he put up points. At best, the jury is out on what his point ceiling is. Again, Nash gets the benefit of the doubt at 28, but Staal is branded at 23/24.

J. Staal at $6m for 4 seasons isn't terrible. Probably not the most prudent move. $5m at 5 years would be a bargain though. It seems that money isn't everything to Jordan, better yet it seems like the brother thing is very important. NYR has a better chance of accommodating all 3 (or 4) Staals than Carolina. I don't know, its just not as clear cut as it's being portrayed.

As for the brother question, I know 2 or 3 Sutter brothers played on the same team. Did 2 sets play for 2 teams at the same time?

DutchShamrock is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:41 PM
  #282
Jabroni
Moderator
The Corporate Mod
 
Jabroni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,273
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
If the plan was to trade Stepan, a 1st, and a prospect like Miller and then sign Staal next summer, would you be opposed?
The problem is, what if Staal never gets to free agency?

And even then, he might not want to sign with us.

Jabroni is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:42 PM
  #283
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
If the plan was to trade Stepan, a 1st, and a prospect like Miller and then sign Staal next summer, would you be opposed?
I've said already, I'm not even opposed to moving stepan for ryan

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:43 PM
  #284
BroadwayBlues
Angel Grove
 
BroadwayBlues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 7,054
vCash: 500
Del Zotto, Anisimov,Thomas,2nd. = Ryan

BroadwayBlues is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:43 PM
  #285
Killem Dafoe
Moderator
modus operandi
 
Killem Dafoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Land of Bad Drivers
Country: United States
Posts: 14,397
vCash: 263
Eklund said a team is moving waaaay up in the draft. heh.

Killem Dafoe is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:45 PM
  #286
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 11,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Cause people don't understand that there is more to a player than cap hit and name.

Ryan won't fit into our system as well as some think he will. He disappears often. He'll have more offensive talent than we're used to but defensively he has a lot of adjusting to do. He takes shifts off and rarely back checks.

Nash fits into our system perfectly and adds potentially 50 goals.

Ryan will have to work a lot harder to fit into our system and adds potentially 40 goals.
You are wrong on every single point you just made.

First off let's face it neither forward is going to win a Selke anytime soon, but Ryan will be much easier to teach than someone like Nash would be. Ryan actually likes to hit people and use hit body, he can be taught defense. He can be molded into a two way player, if anyone can do it it's Torts. Ryan likes to work the boards and Nash is more of a floater in the offensive zone. Ryan fits the system more than Nash. He doesn't even have to play a high defensive game, Gaborik is successful and he likes to float two. Defense can be taught and it's easier to teach a 24 year old still learning then a 28 year old who has that superstar mentality. Between the two Ryan has shown more of a willingness to get dirty.

Inconsistency, sounds familiar right? That's the definition of Gaborik (who I have the utmost respect for after playing hurt in the playoffs). You fail to mention how Nash takes shifts off, he'll even games off, as well. He came into the league and he was more of a net presence, he's more of a perimeter player and that's a red flag. Ryan loves to drive to the net and he is more thank capable of scoring around the net.

Nash is a career mid 30 goal scorer (once hitting 40), so to assume he'll add 15 goals just like that is quite a reach. Nash is a great goal scorer but Ryan is no slouch, on a bad year Ryan puts in 30 goals. He could be a 40 goal scorer here as well.

Then you tak into account age and salary and the player progression over the next 4-5 years and Ryan seals the deal. This is a kid that is basically the same age as our team and can grow with out team the next 10 years.

__________________
New York RKY is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:45 PM
  #287
Jabroni
Moderator
The Corporate Mod
 
Jabroni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,273
vCash: 500
https://twitter.com/PollakOnSharks/s...49977434861568

Quote:
David Pollak
‏@PollakOnSharks

From 2,247 miles away, I'm hearing there are no Nash talks between ‪#Sjsharks‬ and CBJ, who still want Couture. No counter-proposal period.

Jabroni is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:47 PM
  #288
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 11,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH2 View Post
Probably two roster players, a prospect, and a pick. Maybe DZ, Dubinsky/Anisimov, Miller and two 1sts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Del Zotto, Anisimov,Thomas,2nd. = Ryan
It's been said several times that Anahiem has no interest in MDZ. They have an offensive defenseman for the future in Fowler. They also have several other offensive defensemen currently on the team mother are severely lacking in defensive defenseman. They will have no Internet in MDZ.

New York RKY is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:47 PM
  #289
NYGBleedBlueNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,781
vCash: 500
Nash is by almost all accounts the better player

Nash by most people's assumptions will cost less assets in trade

Nash is three years older, but already signed longterm. If you re-sign Ryan before he's UFA you'll be almost certainly tied to him until the same age you'd be tied to Nash, if not longer. I don't think age is really an issue.

Nash costs significantly more in cap hit per year . . . until you resign Ryan. I'm sure that gap will close by at least 50%. Sather & co should have a very good understanding of the range where things will likely fall in the next CBA. They are so reluctant to part with young assets I can't see them hamstringing themselves cap wise with the deal.

I really don't think there's any logical reason Nash wouldn't be plan A over Ryan besides cap hit. If they think they can afford it then we probably can.

NYGBleedBlueNYR is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:48 PM
  #290
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 15,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
Eklund said a team is moving waaaay up in the draft. heh.
Probably Philly.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:48 PM
  #291
rangers1024
Registered User
 
rangers1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Niagara
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
He was a 25 year old ufa? Is it that much of a difference?

And at the time yes he was. He added similar production to Staal's while also adding in the same grit, intensity, and defensive abilities.
RFA, so yes, difference. Even discounting last season, Staal is the better player. Staal has the better offensive instincts, and abilities.

rangers1024 is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:48 PM
  #292
Jabroni
Moderator
The Corporate Mod
 
Jabroni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,273
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
You are wrong on every single point you just made.

First off let's face it neither forward is going to win a Selke anytime soon, but Ryan will be much easier to teach than someone like Nash would be. Ryan actually likes to hit people and use hit body, he can be taught defense. He can be molded into a two way player, if anyone can do it it's Torts. Ryan likes to work the boards and Nash is more of a floater in the offensive zone. Ryan fits the system more than Nash. He doesn't even have to play a high defensive game, Gaborik is successful and he likes to float two. Defense can be taught and it's easier to teach a 24 year old still learning then a 28 year old who has that superstar mentality. Between the two Ryan has shown more of a willingness to get dirty.

Inconsistency, sounds familiar right? That's the definition of Gaborik (who I have the utmost respect for after playing hurt in the playoffs). You fail to mention how Nash takes shifts off, he'll even games off, as well. He came into the league and he was more of a net presence, he's more of a perimeter player and that's a red flag. Ryan loves to drive to the net and he is more thank capable of scoring around the net.

Nash is a career mid 30 goal scorer (once hitting 40), so to assume he'll add 15 goals just like that is quite a reach. Nash is a great goal scorer but Ryan is no slouch, on a bad year Ryan puts in 30 goals. He could be a 40 goal scorer here as well.

Then you tak into account age and salary and the player progression over the next 4-5 years and Ryan seals the deal. This is a kid that is basically the same age as our team and can grow with out team the next 10 years.
Agreed with everything, except Ryan is 25.


Jabroni is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:49 PM
  #293
Killem Dafoe
Moderator
modus operandi
 
Killem Dafoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Land of Bad Drivers
Country: United States
Posts: 14,397
vCash: 263
Nash won't cost less assets than Ryan though.

Killem Dafoe is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:49 PM
  #294
rangers1024
Registered User
 
rangers1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Niagara
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Jordan Staal isn't as cut and dry as many of you are making it. Very misleading with the posts. Yes, never had more than 50 pts... convenient reporting. 50 points this year in 62 games. He has always gotten the checking role, 3rd line minutes, 3rd line wings. Nash gets the talent excuse, yet Staal is lucky to play with Asham and Dupuis.

This season Staal got top 6 minutes with Crosby out, he put up points. At best, the jury is out on what his point ceiling is. Again, Nash gets the benefit of the doubt at 28, but Staal is branded at 23/24.

J. Staal at $6m for 4 seasons isn't terrible. Probably not the most prudent move. $5m at 5 years would be a bargain though. It seems that money isn't everything to Jordan, better yet it seems like the brother thing is very important. NYR has a better chance of accommodating all 3 (or 4) Staals than Carolina. I don't know, its just not as clear cut as it's being portrayed.

As for the brother question, I know 2 or 3 Sutter brothers played on the same team. Did 2 sets play for 2 teams at the same time?

rangers1024 is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:50 PM
  #295
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,097
vCash: 500
To be honest, Nash's game translates to Rangers style more than Ryan

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:54 PM
  #296
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 8,693
vCash: 500
In my opinion, Nash is a much more talented and complete player than Ryan.

I can understand preferring Ryan for age or contract reasons, but if we are talking pure ability I definitely take Nash.

Also I absolutely would wager that if both are moved, Ryan costs more assets solely because the market is bigger and his contract is better.

__________________
"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
HatTrick Swayze is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:55 PM
  #297
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
You are wrong on every single point you just made.

First off let's face it neither forward is going to win a Selke anytime soon, but Ryan will be much easier to teach than someone like Nash would be. Ryan actually likes to hit people and use hit body, he can be taught defense. He can be molded into a two way player, if anyone can do it it's Torts. Ryan likes to work the boards and Nash is more of a floater in the offensive zone. Ryan fits the system more than Nash. He doesn't even have to play a high defensive game, Gaborik is successful and he likes to float two. Defense can be taught and it's easier to teach a 24 year old still learning then a 28 year old who has that superstar mentality. Between the two Ryan has shown more of a willingness to get dirty.

Inconsistency, sounds familiar right? That's the definition of Gaborik (who I have the utmost respect for after playing hurt in the playoffs). You fail to mention how Nash takes shifts off, he'll even games off, as well. He came into the league and he was more of a net presence, he's more of a perimeter player and that's a red flag. Ryan loves to drive to the net and he is more thank capable of scoring around the net.

Nash is a career mid 30 goal scorer (once hitting 40), so to assume he'll add 15 goals just like that is quite a reach. Nash is a great goal scorer but Ryan is no slouch, on a bad year Ryan puts in 30 goals. He could be a 40 goal scorer here as well.

Then you tak into account age and salary and the player progression over the next 4-5 years and Ryan seals the deal. This is a kid that is basically the same age as our team and can grow with out team the next 10 years.
Ryan has played with far superior talent than Nash. Ryan has played on far more competitive teams than Nash.

Nash has played for the worst franchise in the NHL his career while Ryan has played for an ideal destination for any player. The fact that Ryan, a young 20 something player not yet in the prime of his career is being shopped, should raise red flags for you.

Those are the only arguments I need to make. Offensively, Nash is much more of a prolific talent than Ryan. Put him on a better team I can see him hitting his max around 45-50. Defensively, if you were to compare the two, you'd have to go back to when Columbus had any semblance of competitiveness in them to be able to accurately make an assessment. Hard to be as committed to playing defense when you're team has like 40 points and every one else has like 80...

Rust Heisenberg is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:55 PM
  #298
Jabroni
Moderator
The Corporate Mod
 
Jabroni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,273
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
In my opinion, Nash is a much more talented and complete player than Ryan.

I can understand preferring Ryan for age or contract reasons, but if we are talking pure ability I definitely take Nash.
Right, but the pros for Ryan outweigh the cons in my opinion.

Jabroni is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:57 PM
  #299
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 11,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
In my opinion, Nash is a much more talented and complete player than Ryan.

I can understand preferring Ryan for age or contract reasons, but if we are talking pure ability I definitely take Nash.
I don't think anyone is denying Nash is the better player. The guy was picked %1 overall for a reason. He's proven more for longer and on a worse team.

I think that he shouldn't be an option at his point because Howson won't budge on his price,Megan has the advantage in age and salary, and I think you'd have more success turning Bobby Ryan into a "Torts kind of guy" then Nash. And if you have a player of Ryan's talent but into Tort's system that's huge.

New York RKY is offline  
Old
06-21-2012, 07:57 PM
  #300
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Right, but the pros for Ryan outweigh the cons in my opinion.
What if you don't know all the cons for Ryan?

Rust Heisenberg is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.