HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Cory Schneider

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-21-2012, 10:39 PM
  #151
7thOverdrive
Registered User
 
7thOverdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Port Coquitlam
Country: Canada
Posts: 460
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
what kind of ++? Zajac and Henrique are not options
Clarkson + Josefson + Merrill

7thOverdrive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 10:56 PM
  #152
alpine4life
Registered User
 
alpine4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,591
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thOverdrive View Post
Clarkson + Josefson + Merrill
ouch...
quality for quantity not an option here i think *now mode for Vancouver, not in 5 years*

alpine4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 10:58 PM
  #153
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Nova Nation
 
Zajacs Bowl Cut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Southampton, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 39,319
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Zajacs Bowl Cut Send a message via Yahoo to Zajacs Bowl Cut
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thOverdrive View Post
Clarkson + Josefson + Merrill
ehhhhh

Zajacs Bowl Cut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 11:01 PM
  #154
MISC*
Negged.
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,691
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thOverdrive View Post
Clarkson + Josefson + Merrill
Deal!

MISC* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 11:19 PM
  #155
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Schneider's value is comparable to what Halak's value was when he was traded to St. Louis.

Good potential, still unproven as a starter.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 11:55 PM
  #156
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Schneider's value is comparable to what Halak's value was when he was traded to St. Louis.

Good potential, still unproven as a starter.
I don't think he's that valuable.

Halak had just carried the Canadiens to a conference final, had over 100 games played, put up numbers just as good as Schneider's and was younger.

FlashyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 12:15 AM
  #157
LeX4cavalier
Registered User
 
LeX4cavalier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa
Country: United States
Posts: 1,031
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
I don't think he's that valuable.

Halak had just carried the Canadiens to a conference final, had over 100 games played, put up numbers just as good as Schneider's and was younger.
No he didn't, and Schneider has more potential then Halak

LeX4cavalier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 12:24 AM
  #158
Luck 6
\\_______
 
Luck 6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 7,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
I don't think he's that valuable.

Halak had just carried the Canadiens to a conference final, had over 100 games played, put up numbers just as good as Schneider's and was younger.
Uhh.. Halak had never put up numbers near as good as Schneider's, and since he had no pedigree before his Cinderella run to the ECF many GMs were likely wondering if it was a fluke. He's also a smaller goalie which turns many teams off.

Then you have Schneider: a former 1st round draft pick, winner of an AHL goalie of the year award, has dominated every level he's played, and just dethroned Luongo (a goalie one year removed from a Vezna nomination with top 3 stats since the lockout) from his starting job. People like to relate the two situations, but I'd argue that Schneider is more proven now than Halak was when he was traded. Halak had never played a full season of pro hockey, many wondered if he could adapt to the rigors of it. Couple that with the fact that there have been many "one hit wonder" goalies in the past, and it creates a degree of uncertainty.

I know many people don't want to look at it that way, and there certainly are other ways to interpret the two situations, but personally I think Schneider holds more value than Halak did back then.

Luck 6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 01:38 AM
  #159
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeX4cavalier View Post
No he didn't, and Schneider has more potential then Halak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Uhh.. Halak had never put up numbers near as good as Schneider's, and since he had no pedigree before his Cinderella run to the ECF many GMs were likely wondering if it was a fluke. He's also a smaller goalie which turns many teams off.

Then you have Schneider: a former 1st round draft pick, winner of an AHL goalie of the year award, has dominated every level he's played, and just dethroned Luongo (a goalie one year removed from a Vezna nomination with top 3 stats since the lockout) from his starting job. People like to relate the two situations, but I'd argue that Schneider is more proven now than Halak was when he was traded. Halak had never played a full season of pro hockey, many wondered if he could adapt to the rigors of it. Couple that with the fact that there have been many "one hit wonder" goalies in the past, and it creates a degree of uncertainty.

I know many people don't want to look at it that way, and there certainly are other ways to interpret the two situations, but personally I think Schneider holds more value than Halak did back then.
Only 1 winner in the history of the award for the AHL's best goalie has managed to translate that into success as an NHL starter. (Ryan Miller)

In the 2 years before Halak got traded his team put up 41, and 39 wins, Vancouver has topped 50 in each of Schneider's 2 seasons where he played any significant time. The difference between their save% over those 2 years is .13, but Halak played 79 games to Schneider's 58.

Schneider might have had slightly better numbers but Halak was FAR more proven as a starter, and in my opinion slightly more valuable than Schneider is right now.

Schneider hasn't played more than 33 games in a season yet, nobody knows how he'll stand up to the grind of a full season. The Canucks might end up regretting letting Luongo go.

FlashyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 02:03 AM
  #160
Drew Doubty
Registered User
 
Drew Doubty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Posts: 335
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Only 1 winner in the history of the award for the AHL's best goalie has managed to translate that into success as an NHL starter. (Ryan Miller)

In the 2 years before Halak got traded his team put up 41, and 39 wins, Vancouver has topped 50 in each of Schneider's 2 seasons where he played any significant time. The difference between their save% over those 2 years is .13, but Halak played 79 games to Schneider's 58.

Schneider might have had slightly better numbers but Halak was FAR more proven as a starter, and in my opinion slightly more valuable than Schneider is right now.

Schneider hasn't played more than 33 games in a season yet, nobody knows how he'll stand up to the grind of a full season. The Canucks might end up regretting letting Luongo go.
lol...

Drew Doubty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 02:32 AM
  #161
fools russian
Registered User
 
fools russian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Only 1 winner in the history of the award for the AHL's best goalie has managed to translate that into success as an NHL starter. (Ryan Miller)

In the 2 years before Halak got traded his team put up 41, and 39 wins, Vancouver has topped 50 in each of Schneider's 2 seasons where he played any significant time. The difference between their save% over those 2 years is .13, but Halak played 79 games to Schneider's 58.

Schneider might have had slightly better numbers but Halak was FAR more proven as a starter, and in my opinion slightly more valuable than Schneider is right now.

Schneider hasn't played more than 33 games in a season yet, nobody knows how he'll stand up to the grind of a full season. The Canucks might end up regretting letting Luongo go.
Not that I think the argument is really relevant either way, but this statement isn't true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldege_...Memorial_Award

fools russian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 02:43 AM
  #162
LickTheEnvelope
6th Overall Blows
 
LickTheEnvelope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 28,103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Only 1 winner in the history of the award for the AHL's best goalie has managed to translate that into success as an NHL starter. (Ryan Miller)

In the 2 years before Halak got traded his team put up 41, and 39 wins, Vancouver has topped 50 in each of Schneider's 2 seasons where he played any significant time. The difference between their save% over those 2 years is .13, but Halak played 79 games to Schneider's 58.

Schneider might have had slightly better numbers but Halak was FAR more proven as a starter, and in my opinion slightly more valuable than Schneider is right now.

Schneider hasn't played more than 33 games in a season yet, nobody knows how he'll stand up to the grind of a full season. The Canucks might end up regretting letting Luongo go.
Schneider has already has to face far more travel then Halak ever had to in Montreal and he's been just fine...

LickTheEnvelope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 02:54 AM
  #163
kthsn
Registered User
 
kthsn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Only 1 winner in the history of the award for the AHL's best goalie has managed to translate that into success as an NHL starter. (Ryan Miller)
D you mean win the Vezina?

Jim Carey did it. Potvin was an NHL All-Star. Legace won the Stanley Cup.

kthsn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 02:57 AM
  #164
Ballgarath
Registered User
 
Ballgarath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Not a single response to my interdivisional blockbuster.
if gagner was 6'3 220 then deal! but no ty, van couver needs skiled/gritty/big top 6 forward not another soft little guy. i like gagner and if van didnt need size id be all over it.

Ballgarath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 02:59 AM
  #165
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fools russian View Post
Not that I think the argument is really relevant either way, but this statement isn't true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldege_...Memorial_Award
I wasn't the person arguing it makes Schneider more valuable. I was just pointing out that winning that award is essentially meaningless when it comes to NHL success.

Sorry, I missed Felix Potvin and Dwayne Roloson who at least bounced around the league as average starters.

The point is there are more goalies on that list that never played a game in the NHL than there are regular NHL starters.

FlashyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 03:07 AM
  #166
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
D you mean win the Vezina?

Jim Carey did it.

Potvin was an NHL All-Star. Legace won the Stanley Cup.
Carey was a starter for 1 season, it was a great season, but he flamed out of the league shortly after.

Legace won the cup as a back-up not a starter and never managed to hold on to a starting job at the NHL level.

Potvin granted had success at the NHL level as did Roloson but he was in his 30's when he won it and had already played 4 NHL seasons with 2 different teams.

FlashyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 05:22 AM
  #167
Zarpan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Only 1 winner in the history of the award for the AHL's best goalie has managed to translate that into success as an NHL starter. (Ryan Miller)

In the 2 years before Halak got traded his team put up 41, and 39 wins, Vancouver has topped 50 in each of Schneider's 2 seasons where he played any significant time. The difference between their save% over those 2 years is .13, but Halak played 79 games to Schneider's 58.

Schneider might have had slightly better numbers but Halak was FAR more proven as a starter, and in my opinion slightly more valuable than Schneider is right now.

Schneider hasn't played more than 33 games in a season yet, nobody knows how he'll stand up to the grind of a full season. The Canucks might end up regretting letting Luongo go.
Which of those other AHL award winners have had the same consistency as Schneider though? He was excellent through 3 years of college, excellent through 3 years in the AHL, and now excellent through 2 years in the NHL. All the other goalies seem to have had a least some average seasons during the first 8 years after they were drafted.

A .13 difference in save percentage is actually quite significant too. .15 is how much Quick was above league average this season. So the difference between Schneider and Halak during that timeframe is nearly as great as the difference between Quick and someone like Niemi this season.

Zarpan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 09:51 AM
  #168
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Uhh.. Halak had never put up numbers near as good as Schneider's, and since he had no pedigree before his Cinderella run to the ECF many GMs were likely wondering if it was a fluke. He's also a smaller goalie which turns many teams off.

Then you have Schneider: a former 1st round draft pick, winner of an AHL goalie of the year award, has dominated every level he's played, and just dethroned Luongo (a goalie one year removed from a Vezna nomination with top 3 stats since the lockout) from his starting job. People like to relate the two situations, but I'd argue that Schneider is more proven now than Halak was when he was traded. Halak had never played a full season of pro hockey, many wondered if he could adapt to the rigors of it. Couple that with the fact that there have been many "one hit wonder" goalies in the past, and it creates a degree of uncertainty.

I know many people don't want to look at it that way, and there certainly are other ways to interpret the two situations, but personally I think Schneider holds more value than Halak did back then.
You're way too quick at pulling the gun on Halak. He had played extremely well in the NHL when called upon prior to that run.

Also, you're conveniently forgetting his performances for Slovakia at the Olympics, adding greatly to his stocks.

In my opinion, Schneider, who I like by the way, is one (slight) step behind where Halak was when traded to St. Louis. His value would be similar.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 10:05 AM
  #169
Cocoa Crisp
Registered User
 
Cocoa Crisp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NYC
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 2,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Only 1 winner in the history of the award for the AHL's best goalie has managed to translate that into success as an NHL starter. (Ryan Miller)

In the 2 years before Halak got traded his team put up 41, and 39 wins, Vancouver has topped 50 in each of Schneider's 2 seasons where he played any significant time. The difference between their save% over those 2 years is .13, but Halak played 79 games to Schneider's 58.

Schneider might have had slightly better numbers but Halak was FAR more proven as a starter, and in my opinion slightly more valuable than Schneider is right now.

Schneider hasn't played more than 33 games in a season yet, nobody knows how he'll stand up to the grind of a full season. The Canucks might end up regretting letting Luongo go.
two things:
1) a 0.13 difference is not big if one goalie is 0.860 and the other is 0.873. It just means they both suck. .915 vs. .928 is a whole other ball of wax because you're reaching the upper limit of what any goalie can put up over a significant number of games. It's not a linear relationship and we all know it.

2) the Halak trade was bungled by your former GM. He should have returned more, but incompetence won the day.

Cocoa Crisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 10:32 AM
  #170
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
HFBoards: Night's Watch
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
You're way too quick at pulling the gun on Halak. He had played extremely well in the NHL when called upon prior to that run.

Also, you're conveniently forgetting his performances for Slovakia at the Olympics, adding greatly to his stocks.

In my opinion, Schneider, who I like by the way, is one (slight) step behind where Halak was when traded to St. Louis. His value would be similar.
Having seen both goaltenders play nearly every game they started prior to Halak's departure. I would have to disagree. Schneider has proven more simply by virtue of how fast he adjusted to the NHL, only to then put up phenomenal numbers as a backup until eventually dethroning Luongo, who as Luck 6 stated, was a year removed from a Vezina nomination. The only exception would be the playoffs, where Halak was out of this world fantastic. Even then he did struggle in a few games, given reason to believe in uncertainty for GMs.

Regardless, practically everyone agrees Montreal was ripped off in how little Halak returned. Gauthier did not start a bidding war and rumors suggest he never even contacted other GMs. Considering more recent trades, namely involving Kaberle and Cammalleri. There stands to be some truth to those claims. Never mind if we date back to Gomez. The latter side of Gainey's tenure was not a pretty sight.

Bourne Endeavor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 11:11 AM
  #171
Alpha
Q Up.
 
Alpha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 555
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thOverdrive View Post
Clarkson + Josefson + Merrill
If that's what Schneider gets moved for, I quit this franchise.

Alpha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 11:17 AM
  #172
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Having seen both goaltenders play nearly every game they started prior to Halak's departure. I would have to disagree. Schneider has proven more simply by virtue of how fast he adjusted to the NHL, only to then put up phenomenal numbers as a backup until eventually dethroning Luongo, who as Luck 6 stated, was a year removed from a Vezina nomination. The only exception would be the playoffs, where Halak was out of this world fantastic. Even then he did struggle in a few games, given reason to believe in uncertainty for GMs.

Regardless, practically everyone agrees Montreal was ripped off in how little Halak returned. Gauthier did not start a bidding war and rumors suggest he never even contacted other GMs. Considering more recent trades, namely involving Kaberle and Cammalleri. There stands to be some truth to those claims. Never mind if we date back to Gomez. The latter side of Gainey's tenure was not a pretty sight.
I strongly disagree. Living in BC and being a fan of both teams, I got to see Schneider as well. There's no denying his talent and potential, but look at the team in front of him, then compare it to the team in front of Halak while in Montreal. That alone should be enough to tip the balance in for Blues goalie's favour.

Then add the fact that Halak was younger than Schneider is now, and his lights out performances in the playoffs and at the Olympics, the highest level of hockey in the world, and I'm being generous when saying that Schneider's value is close.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 11:28 AM
  #173
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 20,825
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi
Quote:
Originally Posted by fools russian View Post
Not that I think the argument is really relevant either way, but this statement isn't true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldege_...Memorial_Award
I think the only ones on that list you can make any case for are Felix Potvin and Manny Legace - both relatively solid guys, but not exactly folks you think of when you think of great goaltending.

Roloson's on the list as well, but he was 30 when he won the award.

__________________
Remember - when you're a hockey fan, it's not "reckless driving", it's "good forechecking".
"Viqsi, you are our sweet humanist..." --mt-svk on the CBJ boards

Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
Viqsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 11:30 AM
  #174
Halibut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,137
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
You're way too quick at pulling the gun on Halak. He had played extremely well in the NHL when called upon prior to that run.

Also, you're conveniently forgetting his performances for Slovakia at the Olympics, adding greatly to his stocks.

In my opinion, Schneider, who I like by the way, is one (slight) step behind where Halak was when traded to St. Louis. His value would be similar.
Either way I think the value is close. Some might prefer Halak, personally I think most hockey people have bought into the idea that size matters for goalies and would give the edge to Schneider based on that alone. In the end it's close enough that I cant see the Canucks getting much more in value than what the Habs did. A 1st round pick for sure, probably a decent prospect but not someone guaranteed to be a top 6 forward or top 4 D any time soon maybe a lesser pick or prospect to top it up.

Halibut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 11:57 AM
  #175
Luck 6
\\_______
 
Luck 6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 7,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
You're way too quick at pulling the gun on Halak. He had played extremely well in the NHL when called upon prior to that run.

Also, you're conveniently forgetting his performances for Slovakia at the Olympics, adding greatly to his stocks.

In my opinion, Schneider, who I like by the way, is one (slight) step behind where Halak was when traded to St. Louis. His value would be similar.
Agree to disagree, I guess. Halak never had a very good S% in any World Championship tournaments for Slovakia, and even in the Olympics he posted a 2.41 GAA coupled with a 0.911 S%. I realize stats don't tell the whole story there as I did watch the games, but it's not as if he was all-worldly.

When Halak was traded, there were quite a few question marks surrounding his game. He had never played a regular season with more than 47 games, he's a smaller goalie, he was a 9th round pick, and his numbers seemed very inconsistant season to season. Then suddenly he strung together a hell of a playoff performance that left you wondering if he had just "broken out" if he would recess the following year.

The positives behind Schneider is in his pedigree. He has dominated every level of hockey he has played at, he's used to the North American game and the rigors of a long regular season, and for the last two seasons he's dominated the NHL in every limited chance he's received. Not only that, but Schneider has a big frame which adds to his higher potential. I'd MUCH rather take a chance on a guy like Schneider rather than a guy like Halak for those reasons.

Luck 6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.