HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Notices

Draft Strategy Change

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-21-2012, 05:59 PM
  #1
newfy
Registered User
 
newfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,621
vCash: 500
Draft Strategy Change

This can probably be merged with the other draft thread but its a little different so whatever.

On the malik report an interview with Nill was posted where for the first time in 15 years, the wings have altered their draft strategy. This year they are looking for size and toughness in the draft with the departure of Lidstrom, and also playoff success of big, tough teams.

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.ph..._at_the_draft/

This gets my hopes up for Lukas Sutter even more

newfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 06:03 PM
  #2
SoupNazi
Global Moderator
No Soup for You!!!
 
SoupNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kramerica Industries
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,804
vCash: 545
You realize that this is going to turn into a thread of bashing Holland for trading the 1st, right? Because it is.

SoupNazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 06:07 PM
  #3
Henkka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 8,778
vCash: 528
Is this kind of old news? They didn't take any midgets already at last year.

Henkka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 06:15 PM
  #4
Zetterberg4Captain
Registered User
 
Zetterberg4Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Detroit
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
This can probably be merged with the other draft thread but its a little different so whatever.

On the malik report an interview with Nill was posted where for the first time in 15 years, the wings have altered their draft strategy. This year they are looking for size and toughness in the draft with the departure of Lidstrom, and also playoff success of big, tough teams.

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.ph..._at_the_draft/

This gets my hopes up for Lukas Sutter even more
love it....

Zetterberg4Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 06:22 PM
  #5
Bench
Moderator
Realgud!
 
Bench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Monk's
Posts: 7,214
vCash: 500
The "new" strategy takes into account Detroit probably won't have 3 or 4 Hall of Fame players in their prime (or playing like it into their lat 30s like Lidstrom) to overcome team deficiencies. Probably a good idea.

Bench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 06:34 PM
  #6
Zetterberg4Captain
Registered User
 
Zetterberg4Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Detroit
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bench View Post
The "new" strategy takes into account Detroit probably won't have 3 or 4 Hall of Fame players in their prime (or playing like it into their lat 30s like Lidstrom) to overcome team deficiencies. Probably a good idea.
and it is EXACTLY what everyone who knows and follows the game has been saying

Zetterberg4Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 06:36 PM
  #7
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
This can probably be merged with the other draft thread but its a little different so whatever.

On the malik report an interview with Nill was posted where for the first time in 15 years, the wings have altered their draft strategy. This year they are looking for size and toughness in the draft with the departure of Lidstrom, and also playoff success of big, tough teams.

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.ph..._at_the_draft/

This gets my hopes up for Lukas Sutter even more
It's only been two years of "big" teams winning the cup after 3 years of skill teams.
I don't mind getting bigger. But the Wings need to be careful about moving changing the puck possession philosophy that has worked since the days of the Russian 5.
How about give the puck possession guys the skill they need in the top 6 and then dump every bottom 6er we have unless they have top flight speed or serious physical presence

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 06:45 PM
  #8
Winger98
Moderator
powers combined
 
Winger98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 13,798
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Winger98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Is this kind of old news? They didn't take any midgets already at last year.
that's sort of what I'm thinking, too. I mean, you can't just go out and say, "Hey, we need some size," and draft the biggest kid you can find while ignoring their actual abilities. We do that, and we could be revisiting the drafts that produced such noteworthy talents as Ryan Barnes, Tomek Valtonen, and Adam Deleuwhatever. If we return to our mid 90s style of drafting, we're really up the creek without a paddle.

I think it's just as big for the Wings to recognize players can occasionally contribute before that 4-5 year window that Nill speaks of is up. Smith could have started the year with us. Nyquist could have started the year with us. In the past, Helm could have made the jump a year earlier. we might go into camp and see that someone like Sheahan, Andersson or Tatar could contribute. Instead of forcing these kids onto GR because we have a preconception that they "need" 4-5 years, we also need to be willing and able to change that and go with someone if they look ready - like Smith did. To me, it should be just as much about revamping the development system a bit as it is about drafting bigger players.

edit: or I just sort of agree with CB. scary...

__________________
blah, blah, blah
Winger98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 06:56 PM
  #9
Zetterberg4Captain
Registered User
 
Zetterberg4Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Detroit
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
that's sort of what I'm thinking, too. I mean, you can't just go out and say, "Hey, we need some size," and draft the biggest kid you can find while ignoring their actual abilities. We do that, and we could be revisiting the drafts that produced such noteworthy talents as Ryan Barnes, Tomek Valtonen, and Adam Deleuwhatever. If we return to our mid 90s style of drafting, we're really up the creek without a paddle.

I think it's just as big for the Wings to recognize players can occasionally contribute before that 4-5 year window that Nill speaks of is up. Smith could have started the year with us. Nyquist could have started the year with us. In the past, Helm could have made the jump a year earlier. we might go into camp and see that someone like Sheahan, Andersson or Tatar could contribute. Instead of forcing these kids onto GR because we have a preconception that they "need" 4-5 years, we also need to be willing and able to change that and go with someone if they look ready - like Smith did. To me, it should be just as much about revamping the development system a bit as it is about drafting bigger players.

edit: or I just sort of agree with CB. scary...
i think Nill really meant that they were looking at getting some bigger guys(with talent) because by and large the bigger guys dont need 4-5 years of seasoning and are able to contribute much sooner(assuming they can)

Zetterberg4Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 06:58 PM
  #10
SoupNazi
Global Moderator
No Soup for You!!!
 
SoupNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kramerica Industries
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,804
vCash: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I think it's just as big for the Wings to recognize players can occasionally contribute before that 4-5 year window that Nill speaks of is up. Smith could have started the year with us. Nyquist could have started the year with us. In the past, Helm could have made the jump a year earlier. we might go into camp and see that someone like Sheahan, Andersson or Tatar could contribute. Instead of forcing these kids onto GR because we have a preconception that they "need" 4-5 years, we also need to be willing and able to change that and go with someone if they look ready - like Smith did. To me, it should be just as much about revamping the development system a bit as it is about drafting bigger players.
I agree with you. Nyquist, Smith, and Tatar are all overripe, IMO. We should just let them get ripe rather than risk that they spoil. Nyquist playing third or fourth line minutes this past year would have been better than him rotting in the AHL. Tatar doing that this year would be good, but he'll spend the year in the AHL.

SoupNazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 09:24 PM
  #11
Rolo Tomassi
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 31
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
It's only been two years of "big" teams winning the cup after 3 years of skill teams.
I don't mind getting bigger. But the Wings need to be careful about moving changing the puck possession philosophy that has worked since the days of the Russian 5.
How about give the puck possession guys the skill they need in the top 6 and then dump every bottom 6er we have unless they have top flight speed or serious physical presence

I agree 100% with everything you typed, especially the bolded part!

Rolo Tomassi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 09:49 PM
  #12
Winger98
Moderator
powers combined
 
Winger98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 13,798
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Winger98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
i think Nill really meant that they were looking at getting some bigger guys(with talent) because by and large the bigger guys dont need 4-5 years of seasoning and are able to contribute much sooner(assuming they can)
I hope so, but we'll see. as Henkka mentioned, we drafted a lot of bigger guys last year, but I don't remember the Wings coming out before the draft and saying they needed to focus on size. I'm just not sure what I expect the Wings to do at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
I agree with you. Nyquist, Smith, and Tatar are all overripe, IMO. We should just let them get ripe rather than risk that they spoil. Nyquist playing third or fourth line minutes this past year would have been better than him rotting in the AHL. Tatar doing that this year would be good, but he'll spend the year in the AHL.
I could sort of understand Nyquist, as I think it was expected that he would hit a wall in the second half since he's not used to playing so many games. When it became clear that he wasn't hitting that wall, though, they should have had him up and given him a spot. I wouldn't mind seeing Tatar up this year, either.

Winger98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 09:55 PM
  #13
Boomhower
Registered User
 
Boomhower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
I hope they look at Ryan Rupert with a late pick. He fits the toughness angle, is skilled and fearless. Lacks size though.

I think Jarrod Maidens or Henrik Samuelson are big skilled guys that Detroit would be lucky to get at 49! Maidens' size listing isn't imprssive, but he is really solid on his skates and plays bigger (and looks bigger) than his listing. I think he'll fill out to be a big guy.

Boomhower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 10:50 PM
  #14
Harnessed in Slums
Registered User
 
Harnessed in Slums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 9,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bench View Post
The "new" strategy takes into account Detroit probably won't have 3 or 4 Hall of Fame players in their prime (or playing like it into their lat 30s like Lidstrom) to overcome team deficiencies. Probably a good idea.
Well that and the fact none of their "puck possession" draft picks have developed into high level NHL players.

Cory Emmerton: remember those Joe Thornton comparisons?
Randy Cameron: compared to Mike Fisher
Dick Axelsson
Mattias Ritola
Christofer Lofberg
Johan Ryno
Evan McGrath
Ryan Oulahen

You have to go all the way back to 2002 when the Wings drafted Hudler, Filppula and Fleischmann where the "puck possession" philosophy consistently churned out NHL talent. We haven't turned out a true puck possession guy in 10 years. Mursak isn't looking like he's ready to dominate and I've been a fan ever since he was drafted and I understand an injury set him back last year.

It just makes sense to get guys with size who can skate and have good defensive awareness. Puck possession is much prettier to watch but with a hard salary cap and a league that like the NFL is geared towards parity, there is something to be said for drafting big, mobile forwards and d-men who at a bare minimum can shut the opposing team down.

I don't like that it has come down to this but you absolutely must play to the rules of the game. For as long as there is a hard cap you can't afford to use a lot of draft picks on a type of player - undersized, slow - who over the past 10 years hasn't turned into a significant contributor for you and cannot even play a style that gives you a chance at success at a bare minimum.

You know what type of player can? Riley Sheahan.

Harnessed in Slums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 10:51 PM
  #15
Vatican Roulette
Mona Lisa Lily
 
Vatican Roulette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The bushes
Country: United States
Posts: 8,164
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
I agree with you. Nyquist, Smith, and Tatar are all overripe, IMO. We should just let them get ripe rather than risk that they spoil. Nyquist playing third or fourth line minutes this past year would have been better than him rotting in the AHL. Tatar doing that this year would be good, but he'll spend the year in the AHL.
I would like Tatar to start on the 4th line in training camp. He will work his way up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
I hope they look at Ryan Rupert with a late pick. He fits the toughness angle, is skilled and fearless. Lacks size though.

I think Jarrod Maidens or Henrik Samuelson are big skilled guys that Detroit would be lucky to get at 49! Maidens' size listing isn't imprssive, but he is really solid on his skates and plays bigger (and looks bigger) than his listing. I think he'll fill out to be a big guy.
Maidens should be available with that pick. Sam, not so much. I'm expecting him to go in the first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I hope so, but we'll see. as Henkka mentioned, we drafted a lot of bigger guys last year, but I don't remember the Wings coming out before the draft and saying they needed to focus on size. I'm just not sure what I expect the Wings to do at this point.

I expect a off the grid 2nd rounder, and then business as usual on the rest of the draft. College bound picks, and hunches.

Vatican Roulette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 10:54 PM
  #16
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Well that and the fact none of their "puck possession" draft picks have developed into high level NHL players.

Cory Emmerton: remember those Joe Thornton comparisons?
Randy Cameron: compared to Mike Fisher
Dick Axelsson
Mattias Ritola
Christofer Lofberg
Johan Ryno
Evan McGrath
Ryan Oulahen

You have to go all the way back to 2002 when the Wings drafted Hudler, Filppula and Fleischmann where the "puck possession" philosophy consistently churned out NHL talent. We haven't turned out a true puck possession guy in 10 years. Mursak isn't looking like he's ready to dominate and I've been a fan ever since he was drafted and I understand an injury set him back last year.

It just makes sense to get guys with size who can skate and have good defensive awareness. Puck possession is much prettier to watch but with a hard salary cap and a league that like the NFL is geared towards parity, there is something to be said for drafting big, mobile forwards and d-men who at a bare minimum can shut the opposing team down.

I don't like that it has come down to this but you absolutely must play to the rules of the game. For as long as there is a hard cap you can't afford to use a lot of draft picks on a type of player - undersized, slow - who over the past 10 years hasn't turned into a significant contributor for you and cannot even play a style that gives you a chance at success at a bare minimum.

You know what type of player can? Riley Sheahan.
Yeah, but the players are out there on UFA.
Some are going to have faults. But they are out there.

That's why I'm not sure it's such a great thing if Hudler walks.
For all the complaints, he's one one of the only guys who thinks the game the Red Wing way in the offensive zone.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 10:57 PM
  #17
sarcastro
Registered User
 
sarcastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,245
vCash: 663
I've read that Maidens is a pretty slow skater. That plus the concussion issue make me nervous about his NHL potential.

sarcastro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 11:01 PM
  #18
GentlemanMasher*
Registered Abuser
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: Ajman
Posts: 906
vCash: 500
If I had a choice, my new strategy would include making sure every draftee had wheels and work ethic. After that, judge as normal and go for the guys you normally would. Because no matter how much skill you have, without speed and the will to use it, you're **** on a bull.

GentlemanMasher* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 11:05 PM
  #19
Boomhower
Registered User
 
Boomhower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
I wouldn't call Maidens slow. He's an average skater, not a burner. He's a guy who can dominate the boards and has the skill to hold on to the puck and slow the game down.

He was rated top 20 at mid terms. Of course the injury is a factor... it's the only reason were even talking Maidens at 49. He was a surefire 1st rounder.

Detroit has to take a chance on high risk/reward type players with a lack of a high pick IMO. But maybe that strategy has changed aswell.

Boomhower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 11:07 PM
  #20
fimoknete
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Roesrath, Germany
Country: Germany
Posts: 844
vCash: 500
haha, they are drafting garbage or non first line talents since 8 years or so and holland finally recongnized it?
wow, that was quick.
what is he doing now? telling the scouts stop scouting garbage?
lets see how that will work......
i guess without 1st round picks we will do much better in the future......

fimoknete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 11:15 PM
  #21
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fimoknete View Post
haha, they are drafting garbage or non first line talents since 8 years or so and holland finally recongnized it?
wow, that was quick.
what is he doing now? telling the scouts stop scouting garbage?
lets see how that will work......
i guess without 1st round picks we will do much better in the future......
We get it... you don't like the Red Wings or Ken Holland.

FlashyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2012, 11:32 PM
  #22
Harnessed in Slums
Registered User
 
Harnessed in Slums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 9,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fimoknete View Post
haha, they are drafting garbage or non first line talents since 8 years or so and holland finally recongnized it?
wow, that was quick.
what is he doing now? telling the scouts stop scouting garbage?
lets see how that will work......
i guess without 1st round picks we will do much better in the future......
It will be interesting to see how the latest "top 6" prospects do.

1. Nyquist - looks legit, is European but came to NA after being drafted. Typical Red Wing puck possession guy. Should replace Hudler this year :fingerscrossed: He'll be the first puck possession guy to break through in 10 years.
2. Tatar - also fits the classic puck possession style of play but hasn't locked down a spot. Like many puck possession guys Detroit drafts, he has focused so much on improving his defensive game that he's less of an offensive presence and doesn't have the size to be a good defensive forward. Catch 22.
3. Ferraro - same as Tatar, was supposed to be an offensive force when drafted but is now a defensive forward. At least he has good speed and could become a Darren Helm-like defensive forward and PK'er.
4. Sheahan - the new breed: chance of being a top 6 scoring line forward but if that doesn't pan out he can be a very good shut-down forward like Jordan Staal.
5. Jarnkrok - like Nyquist he looks legit. Hopefully his trajectory continues its upward swing. That would make him the second puck possession guy to crack the top 6 since the 2002 draft.
6. Jurco - he's another puck possession guy. Arrows are pointing sky high.

So I don't think they've completely given up on drafting puck possession forwards. For the first two picks in each of the last three drafts they have selected a puck possession guy with 4 out of the 6 picks. Nyquist is as sure of a sure thing as possible. It's too early to say that about any of the other guys although some look like they're legit.

Harnessed in Slums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 12:15 AM
  #23
WesNichols14
Registered User
 
WesNichols14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Port Huron Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 1,316
vCash: 505
I love that Sheahan is finally getting some real respect. it seemed like a lot of people didnt like him because of his point totals, and the "New Breed" statement fabricoh said fits perfect for him imho

WesNichols14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 12:07 PM
  #24
fimoknete
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Roesrath, Germany
Country: Germany
Posts: 844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
We get it... you don't like the Red Wings or Ken Holland.
thats inaccurate.
i like the red wings but i dont like how they got screwed the last 5 years by the management and their results.
its not the fault of the team that holland tries to win a cup with fringe or garbage player.
beside that, i dont know wether i like ken holland or not but i know that i dont like his work results.

fimoknete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 02:13 PM
  #25
Rzombo4 prez
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 548
vCash: 500
I see this as a misinformation campaign to keep teams away from Nikita Gusev.

Rzombo4 prez is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:53 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.