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Old
06-21-2012, 07:47 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by HighOFFHockey View Post
Ducks don't have much of edge of the Flyers trade wise.
You guys still looking for a top pairing defenseman?

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06-21-2012, 07:50 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
You guys still looking for a top pairing defenseman?
Yeah do you guys have one? Didn't think so. I would take our top 6 without Pronger over yours any day. Next.

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06-21-2012, 07:54 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by HighOFFHockey View Post
Yeah do you guys have one? Didn't think so. I would take our top 6 without Pronger over yours any day. Next.
For JVR and a 3rd you'll have to.

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06-21-2012, 07:55 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post
With ANA maybe ryan, peter holland, fowler, 1st 2012 for Giroux.
With TB Stamkos for Giroux.
With DAL Benn, Lehtonen, Goligoski, Oleksiak, 1st 2012 for Bryz and Giroux.
With BOS Seguin, Lucic, Dougie Hamilton, Rask for Bryz and Giroux.
I'd do these.
I hope this is a joke.

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06-21-2012, 07:59 PM
  #30
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I hope this is a joke.
You haven't heard? Giroux is a superstar...grown men faint when he walks into a room.

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06-21-2012, 08:01 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by HighOFFHockey View Post
Incase you haven't noticed the Flyers were in top 3 in offense production. Ryan is a 30 goal scorer.
I am aware of that, but, quite frankly, why should I care? I haven't been telling Flyers fans that they should be interested in Bobby Ryan. He was reported to be available, and they were all over him. Whether that's reasonable for them is really no concern for the Ducks. It's not a concern for objectively fair value either, which really isn't there with your offer.

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Remember when Columbus overpaid for Jeff carter?
I do! (Or at least I remember that trade, however one wants to label it.) Of what relevance does that appear to be to the current discussions?

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I'm definitely a fan of Bobby Ryan, but there is no way I'm giving up so many quality assets for something the Flyers don't really need.
See, that's a part that on its own I do not have a problem with. That's a fair opinion.

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Originally Posted by HighOFFHockey View Post
If JVR wasn't on the Flyers and didn't have a banged up season he would have put just under 30 goals. On Anaheim he would of had 50 points at least. Don't believe me?
It doesn't really matter what I believe, because such hypotheticals really aren't a very valuable consideration. He was on the Flyers and he was banged up. That doesn't take all of his value away, obviously, not even most of it, as he's a very talented kid with good upside, but it certainly isn't the same as in a scenario where he put up 50. These things do pay respect to simple realities.

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06-21-2012, 08:02 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by longchange View Post
You haven't heard? Giroux is a superstar...grown men faint when he walks into a room.
Well, they don't faint...but they do need to sit down.

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Old
06-21-2012, 08:02 PM
  #33
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I hope this is a joke.
You wouldn't do that?

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Old
06-21-2012, 08:17 PM
  #34
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And if it is for Ryan we need something safer than Schenn. I'm not saying he's not going to be a talented player, but we don't know HOW talented. He is simply not established yet, while Bobby is the league's most consistent 30 goal scorer.

If Philly wants....they won't listen but we can discuss Ryan++ (big pluses mind you) for Giroux. But they won't listen for obvious reasons.
Um what Exactly makes him the mso consistent 30 goal scorer?

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Old
06-21-2012, 08:20 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
Um what Exactly makes him the mso consistent 30 goal scorer?
hes 4 for 4...

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Old
06-21-2012, 08:24 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Nope. I mean it's better than most stuff I see but...it's a lot of scraps and one MAYBE star for the league's most consistent 30 goal scorer and a borderline lottery pick. Take out Wellwood and Bourdon and add a stronger asset for us to even consider it.

The problem with this is...we're giving away a huge chunk of our offense plus our strongest bidding chip in the draft that could turn into a top 6 player our first pair defender and all we're getting is a guy who hasn't really established himself in the NHL. Obviously Schenn is the strongest piece coming from Philly...I think we'd like him...but we're dangling a 6th for guys like Plekanec who HAVE proved themselves. If Schenn had shown that he can score 60+ points it would make some sense, but his only value is upside and potential. Then you add Wellwood...where would he slot in and how would he be of value to us? Smith Pelly would serve his role and serve it better. We're likely getting Selanne back and we're probably going to inject Palmieri and Holland into the lineup. Where does Well wood slot into that group? He's not enough of an impact player to make it worth it. And Bourdon? That's as scrappy as a scrap is going to get.

Then we can't draft 6th overall anymore instead we draft where guys are basically bigger projects...instead of one of Galchenyuk, Grigorenko, Forsberg, Murray, Dumba, Teravainen, Rielly.

Also Getzlaf and Perry's contracts are up next summer. We have Bobby on a long term deal. We have that offensive security in case everything goes wrong. You really need to TAKE him away. Like give Murray an offer he can't say no to.

Personally I think this (a mix of this and next year just to show depth)

Philly needs to add...or Anaheim needs to drop their first until they are offered more tangible assets that make it worth it to give up a potential star at 6th overall.

EDIT: Didn't see JVR. Still doesn't change much. He's unproven. Like someone else said, it's quantity for quality. But the quality value doesn't match the quality value.
Iginla has 11 straight 30 goal seasons

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Old
06-21-2012, 08:25 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
Um what Exactly makes him the mso consistent 30 goal scorer?
Isn't he one of the only ones to score 30+ goals the last 4 years?

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Old
06-21-2012, 08:25 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by muckbin15 View Post
hes 5 for 5...
Ovechkin?

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Old
06-21-2012, 08:29 PM
  #39
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Isn't he one of the only ones to score 30+ goals the last 4 years?
Yeah, there's a small bunch (5-7-ish, I think). I think it's an unnecessary bold statement, as well, that will only get rightful arguments. 4-for-4 is great, but when you have something like 10 straight for Iginla, who cares whether he struck out 11 years ago? It doesn't really matter, at the end of the day, what label you use.

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Old
06-21-2012, 08:39 PM
  #40
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The amount of people who apparently think bobby Ryan has more value than mike Richards, or really any forward traded in the last 5 years is absolutely hilarious.

Maybe you'll get schenn and a 1st. Maybe schenn, a 1st and bourdon from the Flyers.

The amount of people on this website who don't understand how trades or trade value works is truely hilarious.

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Old
06-21-2012, 08:47 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by hero View Post
Iginla has 11 straight 30 goal seasons
Lol and 29 then 28 goals in he two years before that. How Bobby Ryan Gets labelled as the msot consistent 30 goal scorer is beyond me. Kessel is also 4 for 4 without a getzlaf or perry on his line. Along with Nash who has 5 straight 30 goal seasons, ovie with what 6 or 7?

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Old
06-21-2012, 09:06 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
Lol and 29 then 28 goals in he two years before that. How Bobby Ryan Gets labelled as the msot consistent 30 goal scorer is beyond me. Kessel is also 4 for 4 without a getzlaf or perry on his line. Along with Nash who has 5 straight 30 goal seasons, ovie with what 6 or 7?
So what you're saying is, all (pointless and unnecessary) hyperbole aside, he's in pretty elite company and should be valued as such, correct?

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06-21-2012, 09:20 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
You wouldn't do that?
No ****ing way. Basically 2 lottery picks + a former 2nd overall 4 time 30 goal top line scorer + our top prospect.

Ya no ****ing way. I would trade that for anyone in the NHL. It would kill the Ducks.

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Old
06-21-2012, 09:23 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
So what you're saying is, all (pointless and unnecessary) hyperbole aside, he's in pretty elite company and should be valued as such, correct?
No, I'm saying do not place false labels on your player in an attempt to increase their value.

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06-21-2012, 09:46 PM
  #45
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No, I'm saying do not place false labels on your player in an attempt to increase their value.
So you're saying that even though only a handful of elite players have managed the same feat that shouldn't factor into his valuation.

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Old
06-21-2012, 09:51 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
So you're saying that even though only a handful of elite players have managed the same feat that shouldn't factor into his valuation.
Your trying way too hard bro. The guy labelled Ryan as the most consistent 30 goal scorer which wasn't true and then me and a few other posters proved him wrong and that's all there is to it.

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Old
06-21-2012, 11:01 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
Your trying way too hard bro. The guy labelled Ryan as the most consistent 30 goal scorer which wasn't true and then me and a few other posters proved him wrong and that's all there is to it.
Dont bro him bro

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Old
06-21-2012, 11:05 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
Your trying way too hard bro. The guy labelled Ryan as the most consistent 30 goal scorer which wasn't true and then me and a few other posters proved him wrong and that's all there is to it.
Yeah, it pisses me off when people do that and pretend those other guys don't exist, actually. But it's also irritating when people act like him doing it is no big deal like it happens all the time. There's no reason to suspect he won't keep doing it for quite some time.

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Old
06-22-2012, 12:34 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Yeah, it pisses me off when people do that and pretend those other guys don't exist, actually. But it's also irritating when people act like him doing it is no big deal like it happens all the time. There's no reason to suspect he won't keep doing it for quite some time.
Bobby Ryan is EXACTLY what the Flyers hope JVR becomes. However, there is no way Ryan would return JVR and Schenn in a trade. Anyone who thinks he would simply doesn't know trade histories. The original trade is probably pretty close but it would break down more like JVR or Schenn for the first and the rest for Ryan, probably
fair for both assets.

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Old
06-22-2012, 12:41 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Bobby Ryan is EXACTLY what the Flyers hope JVR becomes. However, there is no way Ryan would return JVR and Schenn in a trade. Anyone who thinks he would simply doesn't know trade histories. The original trade is probably pretty close but it would break down more like JVR or Schenn for the first and the rest for Ryan, probably
fair for both assets.
Too bad he will never be anywhere as good as Ryan.

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