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NHL Mock Draft 2012 Edition (Canucks pick G Malcom Subban)

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Old
06-21-2012, 11:08 PM
  #126
Hansen 36
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Honzik was supplanted by a pretty freakin' good goalie in Brandon Whitney.

Honzik has been moved to Cape Breton (I think) where he'll get the lions share of starts (most likely).

I'm not ready to count him out as a prospect....lots of raw goalies like him (eg. Rinne) don't get a sniff until they are 24-26, we have a lot of time to develop him.
Man, how rattled would Honzik be if we drafted Whitney this year?

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Old
06-21-2012, 11:25 PM
  #127
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Man, how rattled would Honzik be if we drafted Whitney this year?


He might purchase a gun.


Last edited by arsmaster: 06-22-2012 at 12:44 AM.
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Old
06-22-2012, 12:38 AM
  #128
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If the Canucks did draft Subban (which they won't looking at their needs) I can see them trading him to a team that needs a young goalie in their system for immediate help.

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06-22-2012, 01:41 AM
  #129
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If the Canucks did draft Subban (which they won't looking at their needs) I can see them trading him to a team that needs a young goalie in their system for immediate help.
Why would we draft him just to trade him??

Trade the pick if someone wants Subban and wants to trade up, take the extra picks and draft players you won't trade right away.

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06-22-2012, 02:01 AM
  #130
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the idea with goalie prospects is you get a bunch of them and let them simmer in various leagues. Cut loose the ones that don't excel and continue forward with the ones that do. Gives you a pipeline. You don't just draft them and trade them soon after.

Corey Schneider took eight years, remember.

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06-22-2012, 02:07 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by timw33 View Post
Why would we draft him just to trade him??

Trade the pick if someone wants Subban and wants to trade up, take the extra picks and draft players you won't trade right away.
Happens all the time. See Bryant, Kobe.

The idea is, it gives you leverage and options. You only have a certain amount of time to trade a pick before you have to actually use it or decide to flip it. Once you nab an asset, you can trade his rights at any time. If Edmonton goes through the first 3 rounds with any goalies they may be courting all taken by others, suddenly they have to look at their options.

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06-22-2012, 02:10 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
the idea with goalie prospects is you get a bunch of them and let them simmer in various leagues. Cut loose the ones that don't excel and continue forward with the ones that do. Gives you a pipeline. You don't just draft them and trade them soon after.

Corey Schneider took eight years, remember.
Good point. Jonathan Quick was a 2005 pick but solidify the starting job until 200910.

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06-22-2012, 02:11 AM
  #133
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I think drafting any goalie is a mistake. Drafting an 18 YO for what you need now is also pretty stupid, at that age, just draft the most skilled player available.

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06-22-2012, 02:15 AM
  #134
John Swartzwelder
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I think drafting any goalie is a mistake. Drafting an 18 YO for what you need now is also pretty stupid, at that age, just draft the most skilled player available.
What if the best player is a goalie

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06-22-2012, 02:19 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
I think drafting any goalie is a mistake. Drafting an 18 YO for what you need now is also pretty stupid, at that age, just draft the most skilled player available.
Drafting any goalie is a mistake? The overwhelming majority of NHL goalies were drafted, I'm sure the teams that drafted them don't think it was a mistake.

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06-22-2012, 02:28 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by John Swartzwelder View Post
What if the best player is a goalie
I didn't say best player, I said most skilled player - and no, not even then. Goaltenders take too Long, are too chancy, are usually not worth much if anything until they're established as starters and there are always lots to pillage from other teams. A skilled player will always be valuable to some GM.

Goaltenders who are drafted, become stars and remain with their original team are very rare. Look at our situation, we might trade Luongo for kadri (skill, nothing else), or Schenn - a guy who is still riding on his junior reputation.

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06-22-2012, 03:52 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by John Swartzwelder View Post
What if the best player is a goalie
It depends on how big a margin we think that goalie is better than the top remaining skater.

If the players available at 26 include a goalie that we have ranked 18th and a skater that we have ranked 20th, it would make sense to pick the skater even though we don't think he is the best player remaining.

The difference between players we rank 18th and 20th is likely quite negligible, so positional considerations should play a role there. As well, highly ranked goalies seem to pan out less often than highly ranked skaters, so that additional risk outweighs the minor talent differential.

If the players available involved a goalie that we ranked 5th and a skater that we ranked 20th, then it would make much more sense to consider a goalie.

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06-22-2012, 04:24 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Drafting any goalie is a mistake? The overwhelming majority of NHL goalies were drafted, I'm sure the teams that drafted them don't think it was a mistake.
I assume he meant drafting any goalie in the first round is a mistake, to which I tend to agree with.

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06-22-2012, 05:08 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by El Duderino View Post
I assume he meant drafting any goalie in the first round is a mistake, to which I tend to agree with.

To be honest, I wouldn't draft a goalie in any of the first 3 rounds, maybe the 4th. Let someone else spend the pick and the 6+years developing them.

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06-23-2012, 11:09 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by TheDiver View Post
Good point. Jonathan Quick was a 2005 pick but solidify the starting job until 200910.
Just think, if Quick was drafted by Vancouver in 2005, he would be where Schneider is now right?

Quick, like Schneider was drafted out of HS. He played 2 years at college, unlike Cory who played 3 years.

So, Quick was in the AHL in 07-08. In the following season in 08-09, he only spent 14 games in the AHL, plaing most of the season in the NHL. I think LA's goalies were Erik Ersberg, Jason Labarbera. Tells you why they brought Quick up from the AHL so fast. He had all of 33 AHL games under his belt, to go along with his 54 NCAA starts. He did have 38 games in the ECHL in 07-08 however.

Don't think the Nucks were going to play a 22/23 year old behind Luongo that season in 08-09. Quick would have spent the entire season in the AHL. At best, he might have beat out Raycroft in 09-10 for the backup spot.

Those are just the breaks. On some other team, Schneider probably has another 30 or more starts under his belt. Possibly upwards of 50 more for some teams.

At this draft, the Jackets used their 2nd rounder to grab Oscar Dansk. If the plan is to grab a goalie, might be best in the future to trade down into the early 2nd round to take the goalie if the goalies aren't coming off the board.

Some years, goalies go in the 1st, others you might get 1 who goes in round 1. Bit surprised Boston took Subban. Rask is only 25, seems a bit of rush to grab his heir apparent.

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Old
06-23-2012, 11:21 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
To be honest, I wouldn't draft a goalie in any of the first 3 rounds, maybe the 4th. Let someone else spend the pick and the 6+years developing them.
Yup.

The thing about goalies is that if you need one, there`s always one available. There are always 2-3 teams around the league with a goalie glut who will move a quality guy for the right offer.

Flipside is that even if a drafted guy turns out, it might be at a point where he isn`t needed and you`re forced to sell him at pennies on the dollar.

It`s a far better use of assets to trade them for a goalie when you need him than spend them developing question marks.

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