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Old
06-22-2012, 12:58 AM
  #51
PALE PWNR
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
Too bad he will never be anywhere as good as Ryan.
Oh I can't wait to bump this thread in 2 years

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:01 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Oh I can't wait to bump this thread in 2 years
Oh believe me ill be happy if you do

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06-22-2012, 01:05 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
Oh believe me ill be happy if you do
Im on my phone so I can't see your avatar but please tell me your not a Flyers fan. Ryan is a 30-30 player give or take and he plays on arguably one of the best lines in the NHL with one of the best passing centers in the league. You don't think JvR can put up better numbers then that on Giroux's wing for a full year?

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06-22-2012, 01:08 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Im on my phone so I can't see your avatar but please tell me your not a Flyers fan. Ryan is a 30-30 player give or take and he plays on arguably one of the best lines in the NHL with one of the best passing centers in the league. You don't think JvR can put up better numbers then that on Giroux's wing for a full year?
He's hit 30 goals every year he's been in the NHL despite never getting 1st PP minutes. And he wasn't playing with Getzlaf and Perry last year.

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06-22-2012, 01:08 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Im on my phone so I can't see your avatar but please tell me your not a Flyers fan. Ryan is a 30-30 player give or take and he plays on arguably one of the best lines in the NHL with one of the best passing centers in the league. You don't think JvR can put up better numbers then that on Giroux's wing for a full year?
And ryan plays zero on the first pp unit and was near the top of the league in even strength goals. Imagine if he didn't play on the joke 2nd pp unit and got 3 or 4 min a night on a top pp unit.... Stats might look better.

Go look up esg.

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:09 AM
  #56
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schenn + voracek?

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06-22-2012, 01:27 AM
  #57
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So explain to me, if he has all this untapped potential and "imagine what he would do if..." why don't they? If he can turn into an epic beast of a player overnight if he's given 1st PP and 1st line time with Getz and Perry why is it not done.

Believe me I have no gripe with Ryan and personally would like to have him on my team. But this is ridiculous, the argument against JvR's value is he's only put up 40 points as a high in his career, well guess what that year he got 3rd line minutes with the likes of Dan Carcillo or Andreas NoGoal. His center was Richards but he also only got 66 points that year and he also got 1st line PP time where as JvR had none. He finally would have gotten top line minutes this year and he was hurt, whattya gonna do. When you turn that argument around all the sudden the Flyers should not only be paying top dollar for 30-30 Ryan we should be paying for 40-40 Ryan since that's what he could be if this or if that happens.

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Old
06-22-2012, 02:28 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
So explain to me, if he has all this untapped potential and "imagine what he would do if..." why don't they? If he can turn into an epic beast of a player overnight if he's given 1st PP and 1st line time with Getz and Perry why is it not done.
Teemu Selanne being on the top unit is why it has not been done. He's pretty good in case you didn't know.

And Ryan isn't a 30-30 guy. In a bad year maybe but he's already hit 35 goals and 70+ points.

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Old
06-22-2012, 02:31 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
So explain to me, if he has all this untapped potential and "imagine what he would do if..." why don't they? If he can turn into an epic beast of a player overnight if he's given 1st PP and 1st line time with Getz and Perry why is it not done.

Believe me I have no gripe with Ryan and personally would like to have him on my team. But this is ridiculous, the argument against JvR's value is he's only put up 40 points as a high in his career, well guess what that year he got 3rd line minutes with the likes of Dan Carcillo or Andreas NoGoal. His center was Richards but he also only got 66 points that year and he also got 1st line PP time where as JvR had none. He finally would have gotten top line minutes this year and he was hurt, whattya gonna do. When you turn that argument around all the sudden the Flyers should not only be paying top dollar for 30-30 Ryan we should be paying for 40-40 Ryan since that's what he could be if this or if that happens.
There's these two guys named Selanne and Perry on the wings. Care to tell us whether you personally would bump the recent Hart and Rocket winner or the team points leader first ballot HOF wing onto the second unit for him?

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06-22-2012, 02:33 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Im on my phone so I can't see your avatar but please tell me your not a Flyers fan. Ryan is a 30-30 player give or take and he plays on arguably one of the best lines in the NHL with one of the best passing centers in the league. You don't think JvR can put up better numbers then that on Giroux's wing for a full year?
Ryan is a year removed from 70 points, top 5 ES scorer, no prime PP time. not many players can even do 30/30 with 2nd PP minutes

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06-22-2012, 02:34 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
So explain to me, if he has all this untapped potential and "imagine what he would do if..." why don't they? If he can turn into an epic beast of a player overnight if he's given 1st PP and 1st line time with Getz and Perry why is it not done.

Believe me I have no gripe with Ryan and personally would like to have him on my team. But this is ridiculous, the argument against JvR's value is he's only put up 40 points as a high in his career, well guess what that year he got 3rd line minutes with the likes of Dan Carcillo or Andreas NoGoal. His center was Richards but he also only got 66 points that year and he also got 1st line PP time where as JvR had none. He finally would have gotten top line minutes this year and he was hurt, whattya gonna do. When you turn that argument around all the sudden the Flyers should not only be paying top dollar for 30-30 Ryan we should be paying for 40-40 Ryan since that's what he could be if this or if that happens.
Have you heard of Corey Perry(2011 MVP) and Teemu Selanne(first ballot HOF'er)

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06-22-2012, 03:49 AM
  #62
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Teemu Selanne being on the top unit is why it has not been done. He's pretty good in case you didn't know.

And Ryan isn't a 30-30 guy. In a bad year maybe but he's already hit 35 goals and 70+ points.
Oh really so I guess 3 of his 4 seasons were bad years? He hit 35 goals 71 points once. His ATOI was also above 20 minutes a night that year. I legitimately don't know but please tell me if I'm wrong Ryan doesn't play on your PK right? Now I don't know too, too much about Anaheim or the TOI given to each line, but for a guy that doesn't get 1st line minutes or 1st line PP time as well as no PK time that seems a bit high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
There's these two guys named Selanne and Perry on the wings. Care to tell us whether you personally would bump the recent Hart and Rocket winner or the team points leader first ballot HOF wing onto the second unit for him?
Selanne's a great player but he's on the wrong side of 40 and you have an up and coming player in Ryan who should be in the prime of his career right now. Going by everything all the Anaheim fans are saying can substantially improve on a typical 30 goal mid 60 pt season. At some point leadership means letting someone else take the mantle, letting someone else step up. I am by no means a traditionalist so my objectivity on this issue is not typically in line with most and I understand that, but it seems completely rediculous that him being a future HOF wing and being "team points leader" has ANY weight on whether he is on the first or 2nd line. The best player right now should be put in the best position to succeed.

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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Ryan is a year removed from 70 points, top 5 ES scorer, no prime PP time. not many players can even do 30/30 with 2nd PP minutes
Agreed it's impressive, I'd like to see the last 2 years percentage of times Ryan was on the ice with Getz and Perry, I'm not saying I doubt you all I just am ignorant to the Anaheim situation I suppose, and as far as the line combos I do not know where to look to get that information.

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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Have you heard of Corey Perry(2011 MVP) and Teemu Selanne(first ballot HOF'er)
Nope they aren't in the East who are they?

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Old
06-22-2012, 03:50 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by cdugan View Post
Flyers

Van Riemsdyk
Read
Mezsaros
Bobrovsky
20th overall

Ducks
Ryan
6th overall
I'd say this deal is much closer than the OP's. Although we really have no need for Bobrovsky.

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Old
06-22-2012, 04:03 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Oh really so I guess 3 of his 4 seasons were bad years? He hit 35 goals 71 points once. His ATOI was also above 20 minutes a night that year. I legitimately don't know but please tell me if I'm wrong Ryan doesn't play on your PK right? Now I don't know too, too much about Anaheim or the TOI given to each line, but for a guy that doesn't get 1st line minutes or 1st line PP time as well as no PK time that seems a bit high.



Selanne's a great player but he's on the wrong side of 40 and you have an up and coming player in Ryan who should be in the prime of his career right now. Going by everything all the Anaheim fans are saying can substantially improve on a typical 30 goal mid 60 pt season. At some point leadership means letting someone else take the mantle, letting someone else step up. I am by no means a traditionalist so my objectivity on this issue is not typically in line with most and I understand that, but it seems completely rediculous that him being a future HOF wing and being "team points leader" has ANY weight on whether he is on the first or 2nd line. The best player right now should be put in the best position to succeed.



Agreed it's impressive, I'd like to see the last 2 years percentage of times Ryan was on the ice with Getz and Perry, I'm not saying I doubt you all I just am ignorant to the Anaheim situation I suppose, and as far as the line combos I do not know where to look to get that information.



Nope they aren't in the East who are they?
He has played on the PK since the 2010-11 year which is the year you're referring to. And Selanne may be over 40 but his bread and butter is the PP, he's still among the top PP players in the league.

As for his linemates, he spent 2010-11 with Getzlaf and Perry with 2nd PP minutes and in 11-12 I would estimate that he spent about 50% of his time with Koivu and Selanne, 25% of the time with a combination of Palmieri/DSP/Bonino and about 25% of the time with Getzlaf and Perry. There used to be a site that tracked those stats but I think they now charge for them.

If Ryan was playing 1st/2nd line minutes as well as on the first PP unit in Philly I would almost guarantee he hits 40 goals and 80 points. His shift to shift effectiveness is inconsistent at best and he doesn't bring a lot to the table if he's not scoring but he is a very capable sniper. I would have thought the Flyers would be going hard after a #1 defenseman this offseason but if they're deciding between Ryan and Nash instead (or as well as), Ryan would be a much better option when considering age and cap hit.


Last edited by Paul4587: 06-22-2012 at 04:10 AM.
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Old
06-22-2012, 04:12 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Selanne's a great player but he's on the wrong side of 40 and you have an up and coming player in Ryan who should be in the prime of his career right now. Going by everything all the Anaheim fans are saying can substantially improve on a typical 30 goal mid 60 pt season. At some point leadership means letting someone else take the mantle, letting someone else step up. I am by no means a traditionalist so my objectivity on this issue is not typically in line with most and I understand that, but it seems completely rediculous that him being a future HOF wing and being "team points leader" has ANY weight on whether he is on the first or 2nd line. The best player right now should be put in the best position to succeed.
League rank for PP goals and points for Selanne.

'11-12 - 12G (T-8th) 28P (T-7th)
'10-11 - 16G (3rd) 34P (6th)
'09-10 - 14G (T-3rd) 27P (T-19th) - in 54 games
'08-09 - 16G (T-5th) 28P (T-33rd) - in 65 games

As you said, the best player right now is being put in the best position to succeed.

And, he led the team in points - this year. By 6 points. I suppose you wanted Lidstrom on the third pairing too?

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Old
06-22-2012, 04:16 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
League rank for PP goals and points for Selanne.

'11-12 - 12G (T-8th) 28P (T-7th)
'10-11 - 16G (3rd) 34P (6th)
'09-10 - 14G (T-3rd) 27P (T-19th) - in 54 games
'08-09 - 16G (T-5th) 28P (T-33rd) - in 65 games

As you said, the best player right now is being put in the best position to succeed.
He may be on the wrong side of 40, but he's on the right side of the top 20.

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