HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Eric Lindros Saga: Lindros "Trade" To Rangers

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-22-2012, 08:56 AM
  #51
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Hard to know. Kovalev was key in game 6 and throughout the playoffs. Amonte was traded to get Matteau, Weight was traded for Tikkanen, and Patrick was traded to get Larmer. Beezer also got the Rangers Doug Lidster.

All players who played an important part in the Rangers success in 1994.
Maybe not in 94, but definitely would have won. Plus, you never know what other moves would have been done or how he would have made players better. If he was the top center, Mess wouldn't have had to face the opponents best players.

patnyrnyg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 09:06 AM
  #52
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,553
vCash: 500
The other thing to realize with his health, is his concussions were a direct result of skating with his head down. In Philly, no one was there to correct him. He idolized Messier, and Mess is the guy who could have got to him and corrected this flaw.

patnyrnyg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 09:10 AM
  #53
Tony D63
Tortsless Rangers
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 4,691
vCash: 500
Never realized how bad the saga went. Interesting stuff. My dad always told me if Lindros never got injured he would be the best player of all time..

Just a question what was worse Lindros leaving Que or Lebron leaving Cle?

Tony D63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 09:20 AM
  #54
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,553
vCash: 500
Lebron. Lindros never actually played for Quebec. He said flat out that he wasnt signing with the Nords. He did the same thing in the OHL, when he said he wouldn't go to the Soo.

patnyrnyg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 09:28 AM
  #55
surf
Wheres the Reggae?
 
surf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: sea bright nj
Country: United States
Posts: 1,565
vCash: 500
To my recolection Lindros was the first player to be called a linebacker on skates,thats how impossing he was..The NHL had never seen anything like him..ever...He was the total package...Generational player..Beside his concussion problems his downside was his Father..His Dad was hated and made several bad choices for Eric..

surf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 09:37 AM
  #56
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 17,610
vCash: 500
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Pain in the ass? You mean, they were looking out for their sons best interests? There is a problem with that? It is a business first and foremost. Anyone out there you trust more than your parents? If I was touted as the Next One, you can bet your bippy my parents would make sure I got what was best for me.

someone mentioned brien taylor. remember, the yankees came to him and it was his mother who said, "$1.5MM or he is going to college" and closed the door. They offered I believe $.5MM and she stood her ground. He got his money, got hurt and couldn't play. But guess what, his mother is the reason he got that money. You think the Yankees would have still taken care of him after he got hurt?
To a certain extent I have no agruments with what you are saying.

There was no real reason not to play in Quebec. They had an issue with the language and that dated back to when he was going to be drafted by Ottawa in the Junior Draft. They forced them not to pick him so he was drafted by Oshawa.

The parent were a pain in the ass because they thought they knew more about the business side of the game than the guys that have been doing that for a while.

Every front office person that has come in contact with the parents all have the same opinion, they are PITA's

Doing what is right for your child in situations that are wrong is one thing.

Doing what they did at the Junior league and NHL level is not being helpful.

At the end of the day, Quebec/Colorado has had a better 20+ years than the Flyers have had.

He could have been a multi-up winnier had he stayed with Quebec.

In fact he could have put them over the top.

Imagine him playing Left Wing on a line with Sundin at Center and Owen Nolan at RW?

Size, skill and snarl?

The parents were idiots

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 09:47 AM
  #57
Chris 84
Registered User
 
Chris 84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Do you think Quebec won the trade because they got Peter Forsberg in return and he helped them win a Cup?
no doubt at all, the avs won. not just in the sense that forsberg was arguably a better player than lindros, but that this trade laid the foundations of the team that went on to win 2 stanley cups.
while hextall and huffman did precious little, and after one great season, steve duchesne was traded away, ricci and simon were key parts of the 96 cup-winning team. parts of the trade manifested into roy, bourque, blake and tanguay, and although that sort of thing is by no means automatic and requires good gm skills, etc, it was the lindros deal that gave the nordiques/avs the tools with which to gain these guys.

philadelphia, meanwhile, won nothing despite lindros's at-times stellar play. his injuries held him back, and by the time he left the flyers, all they had to show for him was being swept in a stanley cup final, jan hlavac, kim johnsson and pavel brendl. people talk about the financial benefits to the flyers of having lindros, and i don't know enough about that to argue either way, but purely from an on-ice standpoint, the nordiques/avs got a great deal and the flyers sold up the farm for very little benefit. to be fair, the flyers have been a very consistent "contender" ever since the lindros deal....but not very rewarding to be contending if you never win anything.

Chris 84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 09:51 AM
  #58
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,553
vCash: 500
If the Flyers traded for Roy, they would have won at least 1 cup. The problem for them was Bobby Clarke didn't think a top goalie was needed.

patnyrnyg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 10:11 AM
  #59
Jackson Ranger
Registered User
 
Jackson Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 2,603
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
I dont think Kapovtsev played at all in the 97 series against the Flyers. Think his mom passed at the end of the Devils series. Sundstrom also got hurt in the Devils series. That play you are talking about with Mess was an empty netter in game 3, and today Lindros would have been called for hooking. He basically hooked mess, slingshotted himself past mess and put the puck into an empty net.
No, it was the Flyers series, Game 3.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...pg=5277,616079

Jackson Ranger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 10:19 AM
  #60
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 17,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
If I was touted as the Next One, you can bet your bippy my parents would make sure I got what was best for me.
And they failed, in epic fashion.

That's why you do not trust your parents to handle your business. A business they had no understanding of.

Just because they are parents of a hockey player, doesn't mean they know how to be an agent.

I read a medical book, does that make me a doctor?

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 10:22 AM
  #61
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
To a certain extent I have no agruments with what you are saying.

There was no real reason not to play in Quebec. They had an issue with the language and that dated back to when he was going to be drafted by Ottawa in the Junior Draft. They forced them not to pick him so he was drafted by Oshawa.

The parent were a pain in the ass because they thought they knew more about the business side of the game than the guys that have been doing that for a while.

Every front office person that has come in contact with the parents all have the same opinion, they are PITA's

Doing what is right for your child in situations that are wrong is one thing.

Doing what they did at the Junior league and NHL level is not being helpful.

At the end of the day, Quebec/Colorado has had a better 20+ years than the Flyers have had.

He could have been a multi-up winnier had he stayed with Quebec.

In fact he could have put them over the top.

Imagine him playing Left Wing on a line with Sundin at Center and Owen Nolan at RW?

Size, skill and snarl?

The parents were idiots
Why? because they wouldn't trust Bobby Clarke's doctors? They wanted second opinions? They wanted him to be in a big market so he could be marketed?

Quebec would not have won a Cup if they didnt get Roy (or another elite goalie). With Lindros, the Nords might have been able to stay in Quebec, although doubtful. If so, would Montreal have traded him up the highway? Doubt it.


Last edited by patnyrnyg: 06-22-2012 at 10:28 AM.
patnyrnyg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 10:27 AM
  #62
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
And they failed, in epic fashion.

That's why you do not trust your parents to handle your business. A business they had no understanding of.

Just because they are parents of a hockey player, doesn't mean they know how to be an agent.

I read a medical book, does that make me a doctor?
He was an accountant, he understood money. He doesn't get hurt and he goes down as one of the all-time greats. Not sure how him getting hurt can be put on his parents. If Eli got hurt before winning a Super Bowl, would that make his father an idiot for not letting him sign with San Diego?

patnyrnyg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 10:29 AM
  #63
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,833
vCash: 500
Never liked Lindros but I will say this...the FLY line was really good.

Crease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 11:02 AM
  #64
Drewbackatu*
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Bob McKenzie looks like Jay Leno with that haircut and chubby face.
Lol. I've been saying that for years.
Now that that's out of the way. I submit Andy Kaufman lookalike Pete Deboer right down to the bulging eyeballs and the dumb expression on his face. Dank you vedy much!

Drewbackatu* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 11:06 AM
  #65
Drewbackatu*
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
The other thing to realize with his health, is his concussions were a direct result of skating with his head down. In Philly, no one was there to correct him. He idolized Messier, and Mess is the guy who could have got to him and corrected this flaw.
Hindsight is 20-20 but let's face facts, Messier and Lindros together on the Rangers would have been tremendous and would have worked out much better for Eric's career in terms of his long term health with Mess as his mentor. I believe we would have won multiple cups.
Needless to say, only my opinion.

Drewbackatu* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 11:10 AM
  #66
Drewbackatu*
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by surf View Post
To my recolection Lindros was the first player to be called a linebacker on skates,thats how impossing he was..The NHL had never seen anything like him..ever...He was the total package...Generational player..Beside his concussion problems his downside was his Father..His Dad was hated and made several bad choices for Eric..
Right on the money dude. Eric was the nicest guy to deal with but he couldn't escape the clutches of his father's incessant meddlin which caused him all kinds of grief before he even stepped foot on the ice.
When he got traded here, you could tell how unbelieveably skilled he was even though he was already at the tale end of his career.

Drewbackatu* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 11:37 AM
  #67
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 17,610
vCash: 500
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Why? because they wouldn't trust Bobby Clarke's doctors? They wanted second opinions? They wanted him to be in a big market so he could be marketed?

Quebec would not have won a Cup if they didnt get Roy (or another elite goalie). With Lindros, the Nords might have been able to stay in Quebec, although doubtful. If so, would Montreal have traded him up the highway? Doubt it.
That Quebec team needed time to allow the kids to develope and Lindros presence there would have accelerated the growth of that process.

Without question they would have won a cup and they would have been able to do it without trading for Roy.

A decent goalie with a solid defence and an offense that included Sundin, Sakic, Lindros and Nolan not to mention youngsters like Young, Rucinsky, Kamensky,

They would have needed some assistance on Defence, but that could have been addressed with a few trades.

With the guys they had, there's no doubt in my mind that they would have been able to stay in Quebec.

As for the Flyers doctors, again, I do not disagree with you. They were horrible.

Maybe he was treated a little differently in Quebec, with more respect? I would think so.

Clarke had a certain mindset towards how players should be being a former player just a few years earlier.

And your comment about the father being an accountant. Knowing how to account for money, does not make you a smart business man. It doesn't mean you know how to negotiate contracts. It doesn't mean you know the ins and outs of being an every day NHL agent.

It doesn't make you a smart person. Good with numbers? Yes. Business savy that knows what is actually best for your client? No.

In fact being Eric's father is probably more of a disadvantage than anything. It's not business. It's personal and when it's personal you NEVER think right.

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 11:43 AM
  #68
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 17,610
vCash: 500
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
He was an accountant, he understood money. He doesn't get hurt and he goes down as one of the all-time greats. Not sure how him getting hurt can be put on his parents. If Eli got hurt before winning a Super Bowl, would that make his father an idiot for not letting him sign with San Diego?
Never said anything of the sort.

My comment about the medical book making me a doctor was akin to Poppa Lindros being a hockey dad and using that as a basis to think he was smart enough to be a players agent.

He had no understanding of what it takes to negotiate contracts and all the intricacies that come along with it. MOST agents are lawyers and those that are not, lean on the agencies counsel to write up the nitty gritty of deals. And most GM's that were former players HEAVILY lean on in house counsel to get deals done.

Would you ask an accountant to negotiate a contract for you? I sure as hell would not.

And while I love both of my parents to death, there's NO WAY I would have either of them involved in my business.

Business and Blood more often than not, end badly.

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 11:45 AM
  #69
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,553
vCash: 500
You are also assuming the Nords would have kept Nolan and Sundin. The guy was an absolute bull. He didn't want to play in Quebec and didn't want to play in the Soo and did what he had to do to make sure that didn't happen. That was his father's job. Contracts? What contract did his father negotiate that was a bad contract for Lindros? The Flyers incompetence with handling his concussions was the start of how serious concussions are monitored today. 15 years ago, Sauer would probably have played in the play-offs and been be getting reemed on here for being ineffective. Basically, Carl Lindros questioned the almighty Bobby Clarke so Clarke and his media blamed the father for all that went bad with the Flyers, and in those situations the fans are always going to side with the team. When he came to NY, you never heard a peep out of his father.

patnyrnyg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 11:47 AM
  #70
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Never said anything of the sort.

My comment about the medical book making me a doctor was akin to Poppa Lindros being a hockey dad and using that as a basis to think he was smart enough to be a players agent.

He had no understanding of what it takes to negotiate contracts and all the intricacies that come along with it. MOST agents are lawyers and those that are not, lean on the agencies counsel to write up the nitty gritty of deals. And most GM's that were former players HEAVILY lean on in house counsel to get deals done.

Would you ask an accountant to negotiate a contract for you? I sure as hell would not.

And while I love both of my parents to death, there's NO WAY I would have either of them involved in my business.

Business and Blood more often than not, end badly.
When you were 16, 18, you would. When I was 18, I was being recruited to play football in college. My parents spoke to every coach whose school I was seriously considering.

patnyrnyg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 11:55 AM
  #71
Srs Business
Moderator
Look at this graph.
 
Srs Business's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Land of Bad Drivers
Country: United States
Posts: 17,397
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger View Post
Potsie (RIP) did a good job against Lindros in the playoffs that year but missed a game or two because his mother passed away. The Rangers had no one to stop Lindros. I think that was the series where Messier tried to defend him down low and Lindros just shrugged him off to score a goal.

I had season tickets and would occasionally sneak down to the lower level. One time I sat on the red line about 7-8 rows up against Philly. I never saw two guys fly through the neutral zone like Lindros and LeClair. Maybe it was because they were so big but I would not have wanted to play defense against those guys.
Those games were tough to watch. Lindros was flying (in some cases almost literally) blocking shots, throwing monster hits, and lets not forget his goal scoring which always seemed to happen. lol He was a great player and that series is why i was so excited to have him in New York.

Srs Business is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 12:13 PM
  #72
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 17,610
vCash: 500
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
When you were 16, 18, you would. When I was 18, I was being recruited to play football in college. My parents spoke to every coach whose school I was seriously considering.
No I wouldn't.

I was on my own by the time I was 17 years old. By choice.

And the situations couldn't have been more different than you going to certain colleges and Lindros being drafted by a professional team.

Tell me, what was the rational used for not wanting to go play for Ottawa in Juniors or the Nordiques in the NHL?

And while your parents spoke to every coach (which was a good thing) did they have any impact on the school you chose?

I wish I would have gone away to college, but I know how I was when I was 17 and I can tell you that no matter how many conversations my parents had with the AD or the coaching staff at any school i was looking at, it would have had NO BEARING on the decision I made.

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 12:40 PM
  #73
DaBadGuy7
Registered User
 
DaBadGuy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Newark,NJ
Posts: 802
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to DaBadGuy7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger View Post
Potsie (RIP) did a good job against Lindros in the playoffs that year but missed a game or two because his mother passed away. The Rangers had no one to stop Lindros. I think that was the series where Messier tried to defend him down low and Lindros just shrugged him off to score a goal.

I had season tickets and would occasionally sneak down to the lower level. One time I sat on the red line about 7-8 rows up against Philly. I never saw two guys fly through the neutral zone like Lindros and LeClair. Maybe it was because they were so big but I would not have wanted to play defense against those guys.



DaBadGuy7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 03:44 PM
  #74
Barnaby
Registered User
 
Barnaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Port Jefferson, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,624
vCash: 500
orsberg actually played 52 LESS games then Lindros. He scored only about 20 more points. Injuries destroyed Lindros or I believe he was bound to win a cup or two. Quebec won the deal looking back, but things certainly could have gone in another direction...

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1991e.html

Barnaby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2012, 04:15 PM
  #75
The Amity Affliction
Chasing Ghosts
 
The Amity Affliction's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 9,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by surf View Post
Getting rid of Zubov was a huge mistake.If I remember correctly it was a season or two after the Cup and I think we played Philly in the PO's and they pounded Zuby every chance they had.Ranger brass thought he couldn't hold up against physical play.They dealt him.Was that basically it in a nutshell? Can someone jog my memory?
Messier hated him and Nedved for those reasons.

The Amity Affliction is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:47 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.