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The Nash Thread III (all things Nash here)

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Old
06-22-2012, 09:42 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by WinSock View Post
Dude... it's 10:30. I'm getting impatient too, but the draft isn't for almost 10 hours. Lots of time for something to happen.
Sure, it's 10:30, but this saga has been going on since February. There are no signs that it will end today either. Again, I really am trying to stay positive and hoping that everything that we are reading and hearing that has come out of Howson's mouth is posturing. If we get to 7PM tonight and there is no deal, what then? Does anyone really believe there will be a good ending if Howson waits till the middle of July to trade Nash? I think you're naive if you do. The maximum return clock for Nash runs out this weekend. So, it's time to poop or get off the pot or get on your knees and grovel to Rick to get him to rescind his request.

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06-22-2012, 09:57 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Kev22 View Post
Sure, it's 10:30, but this saga has been going on since February. There are no signs that it will end today either. Again, I really am trying to stay positive and hoping that everything that we are reading and hearing that has come out of Howson's mouth is posturing. If we get to 7PM tonight and there is no deal, what then? Does anyone really believe there will be a good ending if Howson waits till the middle of July to trade Nash? I think you're naive if you do. The maximum return clock for Nash runs out this weekend. So, it's time to poop or get off the pot or get on your knees and grovel to Rick to get him to rescind his request.
technically, the max return clock ran out at the trade deadline.... But you are right that it will never be this high again......

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06-22-2012, 10:00 AM
  #178
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I am thrilled to keep him... why do you think most sens fans want/offer Bishop in proposed deals for Nash? Ever since he's been drafted Lehner has been pegged as our future #1 goalie once the Craig Anderson deal runs it's course. You just seem to think he's just some random piece that you can do without in a Nash deal...
He is a random piece that we can do without. Put it this way, why am I choosing your prospect over, for example, Antti Niemi or Roberto Luongo, who might be available?

So, here's my suggestion, instead of the garbage, all-prospects proposals you've been suggesting, give me one with a roster forward better than Nick Foligno. Or, find a way to send me a quality, top 4 defenseman. Because, to this point, I've not seen a deal that is better than what I think the Jackets can get from San Jose.

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06-22-2012, 10:02 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
"Columbus trades Rick Nash to Edmonton for Taylor Hall, Colton Tuebert and the first overall pick"....

"Columbus, you are now on the clock"

Columbus takes Yak and 'Yuk first and second overall.....


Ahhhh i can dream.....
If the expectations are this insane, no wonder Howson is despised.

So many folks here seem to think that trades, in addition to always having one and only one "winner", are completed largely by Rasputin-like charisma and brainwashing.

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06-22-2012, 10:02 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I don't like Howson, but I don't think that's it at all. I think he's convinced his job is safe. There's no reason for him not to be.

I think Craig Patrick should be the one warning him about trading a star player for picks and prospects. Go back and look at the Jagr trade. Beech was the best player that Pittsburgh got and they traded Jagr and former Jacket Frantisek Kucera to get him, Ross Lupaschuk and Michal Sivek (all 2 years removed from being drafted in 1999). Beech and Lupaschuk had put up respectable numbers in Juniors. Sivek was kind of a wild card having done well in one season in the WHL but looking less impressive in the Czech senior league.

Man, I remember that trade like it was yesterday, but going back and re-reading articles from the time shows a possibility for some eerie similarities...

Now, the Pens had a money motive which allegedly isn't in play here, so the situations aren't entirely the same. But it should be a warning to people that think that going the prospect/pick route is the "smart move". At the time, Pens fans were telling me how great the future was going to be with Milan Kraft and Kris Beech both coming into their own. Kraft played parts of 3 more season with the Pens. Beech was out of the league by 2008.

Trading for roster players isn't about filling out the roster--it is about insuring you get some value out of the trade. It is also why I totally get attempting to get a Couture--he's a roster player with the potential for upside and he's got an excellent contract situation. However, I also think you have to be realistic in these situations and realize the likeliehood of getting a Couture is low.
And at the time, the prospects they got back were pretty highly-regarded. I think I mentioned on the trade board that if the two offers on the table for Jagr were to Washington for Beech, Sivek, and Lupaschuk, or to Calgary for Iginla, Savard, and St. Louis, there would have been a riot if he'd taken the latter offer. And that's even considering that Iginla was himself a highly-regarded prospect who had just cracked the Flames' lineup recently.

Pittsburgh's downfall can be directly attributed to their poor scouting starting in about 1993. The drafting dried up, and by extension the trading started to get worse and worse because they were targeting and getting players who simply were not destined to be any good in the NHL.

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I thought you might say that (roster players)....And I don't disagree.

I would be caution those however who are quick to compare the level of prospect being discussed when comparing Zbad and Lehner vs. Miller, Thomas, McIlrath,etc. Not saying you are one of those people but others probably do.

I mean Zbad is regarded in the same light (maybe higher) as a Kreider for example.
Lehner is arguably one of the top 3 goalie prospect and certainly shined with his short stint with the big club.

Futures are always a gamble but this isn't chopped liver the Sens are possibly talking about.

It would just be dissapointing if Nash is pouting about being traded to Ottawa after Philly traded Carter here unconditionally and got a good return.
I think that's four chopped liver references in three days now...did something get in the water around here or what?

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06-22-2012, 10:04 AM
  #181
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FOUR references?!? Well, that ain't chopped liver! (Oops.)

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06-22-2012, 10:04 AM
  #182
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If the expectations are this insane, no wonder Howson is despised.
Note the "Ahhh I can dream"....

You're sarcasm detector not working this morning, Hon?

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06-22-2012, 10:06 AM
  #183
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It's widely known and speculated the sens are going to draft a goalie in the draft.. be it their 1st (if they still have it) or with one of their 3rds. We brought in almost every top goalie prospects in for interviews etc. So it might ease the stress of trading one of Bishop/Lehner away.
Even then, he wouldn't be close to NHL-ready for at least another two years. There isn't believed to be a franchise-type goalie in this year's draft.

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06-22-2012, 10:07 AM
  #184
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FOUR references?!? Well, that ain't chopped liver! (Oops.)

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06-22-2012, 10:09 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Kev22 View Post
Sure, it's 10:30, but this saga has been going on since February. There are no signs that it will end today either. Again, I really am trying to stay positive and hoping that everything that we are reading and hearing that has come out of Howson's mouth is posturing. If we get to 7PM tonight and there is no deal, what then? Does anyone really believe there will be a good ending if Howson waits till the middle of July to trade Nash? I think you're naive if you do. The maximum return clock for Nash runs out this weekend. So, it's time to poop or get off the pot or get on your knees and grovel to Rick to get him to rescind his request.
I give you full permission to run amuck in the streets.

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Old
06-22-2012, 10:21 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
He is a random piece that we can do without. Put it this way, why am I choosing your prospect over, for example, Antti Niemi or Roberto Luongo, who might be available?

So, here's my suggestion, instead of the garbage, all-prospects proposals you've been suggesting, give me one with a roster forward better than Nick Foligno. Or, find a way to send me a quality, top 4 defenseman. Because, to this point, I've not seen a deal that is better than what I think the Jackets can get from San Jose.
Yea.. first off... that's laughable. You clearly have no knowledge of the potential of our prospects if you think Zibanejad or Lehner are just throw ins or any prospect for that matter.. You go by big names and think it's the best. Second of all, I'm not proposing anything. It's been widely speculated by multiple media sources that Bryan Murray is willing or is offering a combination of the players i've mentioned in a deal for Nash. You have no choice in anything just because you'd want Luongo or Niemi (who is very average anyways) doesn't mean they are even remotely linked to Columbus. Maybe in Fantasy land you can get all the big name players you want for Nash.. but the reality of it is.. Why would a team trade a bunch of Top 6 players and picks for 1 player... it doesn't make any sense.

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06-22-2012, 10:39 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
Note the "Ahhh I can dream"....

You're sarcasm detector not working this morning, Hon?
My insane dreams usually involve our existing guys proving the world wrong and winning the Cup, not stomping on other teams, beating them up, and rifling through their pockets for spare All-Stars.

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06-22-2012, 10:41 AM
  #188
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My insane dreams usually involve our existing guys proving the world wrong and winning the Cup, not stomping on other teams, beating them up, and rifling through their pockets for spare All-Stars.
That only happens in the movies.... And, before you ask, no, Channing Tatum isn't going to be in this one....

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06-22-2012, 10:45 AM
  #189
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Yea.. first off... that's laughable. You clearly have no knowledge of the potential of our prospects if you think Zibanejad or Lehner are just throw ins or any prospect for that matter.. You go by big names and think it's the best. Second of all, I'm not proposing anything. It's been widely speculated by multiple media sources that Bryan Murray is willing or is offering a combination of the players i've mentioned in a deal for Nash. You have no choice in anything just because you'd want Luongo or Niemi (who is very average anyways) doesn't mean they are even remotely linked to Columbus. Maybe in Fantasy land you can get all the big name players you want for Nash.. but the reality of it is.. Why would a team trade a bunch of Top 6 players and picks for 1 player... it doesn't make any sense.
Yeah, and you'll notice that Howson hasn't exactly jumped at the rumored deal.

We actually have been linked to Luongo, separate and apart from Nash. So, again, why trade for your magic beans if we can acquire Luongo and still get other assets out of Nash?

I don't want "a bunch of Top 6 players"...but I do want one that is better than Nick Foligno. And given that our GM is pushing to get San Jose to up their offer from Pavelski to Couture, I don't think I'm too far off market their.

This deal is clearly too rich for the Senators (not to mention that Nash hasn't agreed to waive his NMC to go to Ottawa) so it may make sense for you to turn your attention to Bobby Ryan.

Then again, given your confidence in your prospects, maybe you just want to hold onto them since they are guaranteed future superstars one and all.

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06-22-2012, 10:49 AM
  #190
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Sens are still talking to Columbus about Rick Nash. Budget question for Ottawa right now.

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06-22-2012, 10:53 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
That only happens in the movies.... And, before you ask, no, Channing Tatum isn't going to be in this one....
Yeah, but at least my dreams happen somewhere.

NHL12 does not count. BECAUSE I SAY SO. THAT'S WHY.

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06-22-2012, 10:55 AM
  #192
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Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
Sens are still talking to Columbus about Rick Nash. Budget question for Ottawa right now.
For planning purposes. Karlsson with a new contract and not many folks signed long-term. I'd take a contract back as long as those other pieces stay put.

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06-22-2012, 10:56 AM
  #193
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Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
Sens are still talking to Columbus about Rick Nash. Budget question for Ottawa right now.
Lavoie was the guy that also said that Carter was asking out almost immediately when the season started....

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06-22-2012, 10:59 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Yeah, and you'll notice that Howson hasn't exactly jumped at the rumored deal.

We actually have been linked to Luongo, separate and apart from Nash. So, again, why trade for your magic beans if we can acquire Luongo and still get other assets out of Nash?

I don't want "a bunch of Top 6 players"...but I do want one that is better than Nick Foligno. And given that our GM is pushing to get San Jose to up their offer from Pavelski to Couture, I don't think I'm too far off market their.

This deal is clearly too rich for the Senators (not to mention that Nash hasn't agreed to waive his NMC to go to Ottawa) so it may make sense for you to turn your attention to Bobby Ryan.

Then again, given your confidence in your prospects, maybe you just want to hold onto them since they are guaranteed future superstars one and all.
Do you have a link that Pavelski was offered?

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06-22-2012, 11:00 AM
  #195
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Sorry, but I can't stand the OTT proposals. They just don't do anything for me. But OTT is the only team popping up in rumors at the moment. NYR, PHI, and SJ talk is all but dead today. It's a bit concerning. If Nick Foligno is the centerpiece of a deal for Nash, the pitchforks should be brought out.

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06-22-2012, 11:02 AM
  #196
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Murray says he has not had any discussions with Pittsburgh or Anaheim about Jordan Staal or Bobby Ryan. #Sens
Quote:
Bryan Murray says he's still in talks with Columbus about Rick Nash. Says the #15 pick has not been part of any trade discussions. #Sens

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06-22-2012, 11:03 AM
  #197
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Sorry, but I can't stand the OTT proposals. They just don't do anything for me. But OTT is the only team popping up in rumors at the moment. NYR, PHI, and SJ talk is all but dead today. It's a bit concerning. If Nick Foligno is the centerpiece of a deal for Nash, the pitchforks should be brought out.
The thing with the rumored Ottawa proposals is, there IS no centerpiece.

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06-22-2012, 11:08 AM
  #198
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Good Jesus, Nick Foligno, Mika Zibanejad and Robin Lehner would be great for us. Nick is better Umberger and can play a center too. I dont understand how somebody cannot agree with these players.

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06-22-2012, 11:09 AM
  #199
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Sorry, but I can't stand the OTT proposals. They just don't do anything for me. But OTT is the only team popping up in rumors at the moment. NYR, PHI, and SJ talk is all but dead today. It's a bit concerning. If Nick Foligno is the centerpiece of a deal for Nash, the pitchforks should be brought out.
At worst we should be getting Z Lehner and Foligno. Rather go for more experience myself.

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06-22-2012, 11:09 AM
  #200
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I'm calling B.S. on this.... Foligno, Zibanjed and Lehner/Bishop alone would not be enough.

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