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Luongo XIII - UnoLussy (Mod Warning In OP)

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06-22-2012, 11:42 AM
  #851
vanwest
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
Again, our goal was never to find a starting goalie this offseason! Burke is looking for a capable goalie to either share or back-up Reimer for one year! Luongo is only being mentioned as he is an elite goalie that is available! Otherwise we wouldn't be in the hunt for any starter but rather a 1b.
I disagree with you. I know what Burke said. I'm obviously a Canuck's fan but I'm trying to look at this objectively. If we had a young goalie tandem that barely cracked .900 I know that regardless of what Gillis said publicly he would be moving heaven and earth to find a legitimate starter. It would be the biggest improvement the Leafs could make in one stroke. Another year of throwing Reimer to the wolves will probably be his last year in a Leaf's uniform, IMO. His confidence looked shot last year. Burke would risk ruining a young player's confidence, maybe permanently. Luongo may not be the ideal acquisition with his contract but he is by far the most ideal available. If the Leafs miss out on him they may wait another 3 years before another opportunity comes up.

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06-22-2012, 11:42 AM
  #852
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OK. I thought you guys were looking to get better though. That seems like a pretty lateral move to be honest. I'll be shocked if the Leafs don't make a major push for Luongo.
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I disagree with you. I know what Burke said. I'm obviously a Canuck's fan but I'm trying to look at this objectively. If we had a young goalie tandem that barely cracked .900 I know that regardless of what Gillis said publicly he would be moving heaven and earth to find a legitimate starter. It would be the biggest improvement the Leafs could make in one stroke. Another year of throwing Reimer to the wolves will probably be his last year in a Leaf's uniform, IMO. His confidence looked shot last year. Burke would risk ruining a young player's confidence, maybe permanently. Luongo may not be the ideal acquisition with his contract but he is by far the most ideal available. If the Leafs miss out on him they may wait another 3 years before another opportunity comes up.
I have literally said this on the Leafs board, and I want Luongo, I am just arguing from Burke's prospective, not mine.

Reimer put up a .921 save percentage in first season, and then got injured after 6 games last year. I am assuming Burke is banking on his bad season being the result of an injury. I think just by going into next season he believes that we will be a better team without doing anything due to having a health Reimre. With that in mind, he knows he needs some sort of insurance, and that is why he only wants someone with experience on a one year deal to play and show Reimer the ropes. If Reimer craps the bed he is gone, and we worry about a starter next year.

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06-22-2012, 11:43 AM
  #853
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Did they really?

So, if they were one of the rumored teams interested in Luongo, either the price was too high or they got tired of waiting and didn't want to wind up with no goalie at all.

This is getting interesting, fewer of the reported suitors left. I still think Vancouver needs to deal soon before there are none.
Although it's less than ideal, Vancouver can likely wait until July 1st 2013 to make a deal. If Luongo isn't dealt now, they likely have to sign Schneider to a 1-year deal. They then have a full year to trade Lu and extend Cory. There's no indication that either goalie would refuse to report if both were still around. Granted it may not be the best locker room situation having a player who knows he will be traded, but it has happened before. For Lu, it would be a matter of him working with the team to make sure that he gets to go to one of his preferred destinations while the team gets fair value for him. He did publicly state that he'd help do what was best for the team, so this isn't too farfetched, in my opinion.

A lot can happen in the course of a year, and other teams could develop a need for a goaltender. And think of all the threads!

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06-22-2012, 11:44 AM
  #854
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
Reimer put up a .921 save percentage in first season, and then got injured after 6 games last year. I am assuming Burke is banking on his bad season being the result of an injury. I think just by going into next season he believes that we will be a better team without doing anything due to having a health Reimre. With that in mind, he knows he needs some sort of insurance, and that is why he only wants someone with experience on a one year deal to play and show Reimer the ropes.
There have been so many goaltenders that have had one good period of play at the NHL level, and then fallen back down to Earth. Does Reimer fit into that group? That's another risk Burke has to assess.

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06-22-2012, 11:44 AM
  #855
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I think the bolded is one of the reasons they would be more likely, as in order to continue sitting around 20th adding 5-6M would be ideal. Especially given the salary cap has risen, and probably will continue to do so.

Markstrom is headed to the AHL this year, so doubt there any chance of him eclipsing Roberto soon. Again, he's 4 years younger than Schneider. And Luongo will probably retire in 5/6 years. The more I think about it, the more FLA works on so many levels.



Sure. You sound like you're trying to convince yourself as opposed to me.
Cap drops if the NHL can get what they're after in CBA negotiations. For Florida the problem isnt with cap hit it's with the dollars that will be significant going to an aging backup if he is replaced as a starter.

If they can get an ok from their owner then maybe Florida does it but again they've been fine with middling goaltenders. Do they really want to commit that much money to a position where they dont seem to need a lot of help? Many teams have done just fine with these lesser goaltenders.

I'm sure they've kicked tires but I doubt they give up even as much as the poor pieces the Leafs fans have offered.

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06-22-2012, 11:45 AM
  #856
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There have been so many goaltenders that have had one good period of play at the NHL level, and then fallen back down to Earth. Does Reimer fit into that group? That's another risk Burke has to assess.
And the Canucks have to wonder the same thing about Schneider.

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06-22-2012, 11:46 AM
  #857
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Reimer put up a .921 save percentage in first season, and then got injured after 6 games last year. I am assuming Burke is banking on his bad season being the result of an injury. I think just by going into next season he believes that we will be a better team without doing anything due to having a health Reimre. With that in mind, he knows he needs some sort of insurance, and that is why he only wants someone with experience on a one year deal to play and show Reimer the ropes.
There are lots of NHL goalies who had great first seasons and then regressed. Mason and Raycroft are two examples. Again, I disagree that he sees Reimer and Scrivens as an option or thinks that he only needs insurance. He needs a legitimate starter. Goaltending was a major hole for the Leafs last year. No GM that I'm aware of would roll the dice on that changing next year. I think Burke knows this as well. We'll see who is right.

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06-22-2012, 11:46 AM
  #858
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I think it's the other way around.
Of course you do, you're a Vancouver fan! It's your job to lean toward Vancouver's outlook!

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Columbus was likely not a destination that Luongo would consider.
IMO, if Columbus was one of the rumored interested teams and was negotiating with Vancouver, then Luongo must have said he would accept a trade there. GMs are busy men, it makes no sense for one of them to go through trade negotiations without first knowing if the player would even agree to the trade. It could be a total waste of time they probably don't have to waste. That seems like common sense to me.

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Fewer and fewer legitimate satrting goalies are left. I think Toronto needs to move soon or they will be left out in the cold.
Toronto may be following a plan similar to Tampa's - build for the future while keeping the current team "as competitive as possible." Playoffs are a bonus, not a necessity. Toronto fans, who should know more than anyone else about these things, say Burke's job isn't on the line over making the playoffs this year, so he may not be concerned about getting what opposing teams' fans consider a "legitimate" starting goalie if the price is too high. He could go stopgap and try again in another year or so.

After reading all these threads, I've come to the point where I agree with those saying these two teams don't make good trade partners, anyway, because it does look to me (non-fan of either team) like Toronto's not in a make-the-playoffs-at-any-cost mode and, as a result, has nothing to offer that Vancouver wants. (Of course, that's based on the FanGMs, who knows what the real GMs are thinking!)

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06-22-2012, 11:47 AM
  #859
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I'm sure they've kicked tires but I doubt they give up even as much as the poor pieces the Leafs fans have offered.
I think there are situational differences in what can be offered.

Thje 3rd best prospect from the Toronto system is horrible... the 3rd best best prospect in Florida is a guy like Bjugstad.

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06-22-2012, 11:48 AM
  #860
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Cap drops if the NHL can get what they're after in CBA negotiations. For Florida the problem isnt with cap hit it's with the dollars that will be significant going to an aging backup if he is replaced as a starter.

If they can get an ok from their owner then maybe Florida does it but again they've been fine with middling goaltenders. Do they really want to commit that much money to a position where they dont seem to need a lot of help? Many teams have done just fine with these lesser goaltenders.

I'm sure they've kicked tires but I doubt they give up even as much as the poor pieces the Leafs fans have offered.
Is cash exchange out if the question? For example Vancouver trades loungo along with 10million? I know in NFL and MLB this happens but not too sure about the NHL.

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06-22-2012, 11:50 AM
  #861
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Of course you do, you're a Vancouver fan! It's your job to lean toward Vancouver's outlook!
Yeah, imagine that a Vancouver fan posting his views in a Luongo thread. So far I've seen posters argue that Vokoun, Lindback, Thomas and Harding are all goalies that the Leafs could acquire. Looks like they are running out of options.

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06-22-2012, 11:50 AM
  #862
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Yeah, imagine that a Vancouver fan posting his views in a Luongo thread.
So, I gather you missed the at the end of the sentence?

Lighten up, just trying to have some fun.

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Looks like the 'more objective' posters like youself are running out of ammunition.
Well, I'm more objective than most of the Vancouver and Toronto fans posting in these threads, that's for sure.

I'm just stating my opinion, which is still allowed, even if it's not in agreement with yours.

The goalie pool is dwindling, the number of teams needing goalies is dwindling along with it. It's an interesting situation, for sure.

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06-22-2012, 11:51 AM
  #863
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There have been so many goaltenders that have had one good period of play at the NHL level, and then fallen back down to Earth. Does Reimer fit into that group? That's another risk Burke has to assess.
Well its not like he isn't pushing for Luongo, I just doubt he gives up anything major for him.

My whole argument stems from this idea that the Leafs are backed in a corner and need Luongo or should just fold as a team. The reality is that we were never looking for a starter, and only when one as good as Luongo was available possibly for cheap did that become an option. Most people expected us to get a mid level experienced goalie in FA just to provide short term support for Reimer going into next season, to determine if he actually is the "real deal" (as Burke likes to say). The expectation is Reimer will play better in a more defensive system (new coach) and while also being healthy.

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06-22-2012, 11:51 AM
  #864
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Is cash exchange out if the question? For example Vancouver trades loungo along with 10million? I know in NFL and MLB this happens but not too sure about the NHL.
Not allowed under NHL rules.

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06-22-2012, 11:51 AM
  #865
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Is cash exchange out if the question? For example Vancouver trades loungo along with 10million? I know in NFL and MLB this happens but not too sure about the NHL.
That never happens in the NFL. And yes, it is completely out of the question in the NHL

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06-22-2012, 11:53 AM
  #866
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There are lots of NHL goalies who had great first seasons and then regressed. Mason and Raycroft are two examples. Again, I disagree that he sees Reimer and Scrivens as an option or thinks that he only needs insurance. He needs a legitimate starter. Goaltending was a major hole for the Leafs last year. No GM that I'm aware of would roll the dice on that changing next year. I think Burke knows this as well. We'll see who is right.
Why didn't Stevie Y pick up Luongo then? Goaltending was a major hole for them last year but yet they didn't go for Luongo...weird.

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06-22-2012, 11:53 AM
  #867
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Is cash exchange out if the question? For example Vancouver trades loungo along with 10million? I know in NFL and MLB this happens but not too sure about the NHL.
This is against the rules currently

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06-22-2012, 11:57 AM
  #868
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Why didn't Stevie Y pick up Luongo then? Goaltending was a major hole for them last year but yet they didn't go for Luongo...weird.
Not weird at all. Luongo simply didn't fit Yzerman's plan, which called for a young goalie to grow with Stamkos and Hedman and no long term contracts. We already have one cap circumvention contract to deal with and Yzerman very much looks ahead and is being careful because of the uncertainties of the new CBA.

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06-22-2012, 11:57 AM
  #869
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Not weird at all. Luongo simply didn't fit Yzerman's plan, which called for a young goalie to grow with Stamkos and Hedman and no long term contracts. We already have one cap circumvention contract to deal with and Yzerman very much looks ahead and is being careful because of the uncertainties of the new CBA.
I was being

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06-22-2012, 11:58 AM
  #870
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well cbj is out of the running, honestly i only see Leafs now.Panthers are set with Theodore and Markstrom, and now CBJ just got Bobrovsky.

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06-22-2012, 11:58 AM
  #871
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if bobrovski is getting a 2nd and two fourths, wtf is luongo's value

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06-22-2012, 11:59 AM
  #872
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I was being
Oh... trying to have some fun, are you?

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06-22-2012, 12:03 PM
  #873
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Thought

After seeing Bobroskys return today (a 2nd and 2 4ths)

If the Canucks moved Luongo to Toronto for (insert package...giggity)

What would Leafs fans think of moving Reimer if there is a similar return to what Bobrosky got?

So go with A Luongo/Scrivens tandem.

So just a generic template
In
Roberto Luongo
2nd Rounder
4th Rounder
4th Rounder

Out
James Reimer
Nazem Kadri
Nikolai Kulemin
(again spitballin)

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06-22-2012, 12:03 PM
  #874
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if bobrovski is getting a 2nd and two fourths, wtf is luongo's value
Well...being Bob is 33 and has a 10 year deal....oh, wait.

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06-22-2012, 12:04 PM
  #875
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Why didn't Stevie Y pick up Luongo then? Goaltending was a major hole for them last year but yet they didn't go for Luongo...weird.
Take a look at their roster. Vinny, St Louis, and Stamkos and even Malone all have huge contracts. I always said that TBay was not a good fit unless they traded Vinny's equally long contract with a higher cap hit. Don't forget also that TBay does not have the TML cash to deal with these contracts either. Yzerman gave up 3 top 90 picks for Lindback, who may or may not help his team. I'm not convinced that he's improved the team at all. I'll withhold judgement until I see what else he does.

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