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Staal Wars - Episode V: Gronk Strikes Back, Wedding Edition.

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:29 PM
  #951
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
I know Ray Shero's a patient GM, I want him to re-sign Staal, but it's sounding more like he wants to be a Carolina Hurricane more than a Pittsburgh Penguin. And it's not just speculation, why would Staal's agent tell Shero "no we don't want to negotiate, but we will negotiate with the Canes if you trade him"?

It's right there, Jordan's agent wants him to go to the Hurricanes, if we get a good offer (Sutter + 8th overall +) why shouldn't we accept it instead of risking losing Staal for nothing next summer?
It all depends on what the other plus is. Sutter, 8th, and Faulk, I'd pull the trigger. If it were less, I'd waver.

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:30 PM
  #952
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Which of these two players would you consider a top 6 forward?

PLAYER A: 26 years old, 4 seasons in the NHL

73 GP - 15 G, 16 A (31 points)
78 GP - 16 G, 20 A (36 points)
82 GP - 30 G, 27 A (57 points)
70 GP - 7 G, 21 A (28 points)

Player A is considered as a good defensive player and has been a + player on a bad team for the last two years. He can play the PK and he is a winger. He had a career year two years ago.

PLAYER B: 33 years old, 12 seasons in the NHL

Last four seasons:

71 GP - 12 G, 16 A (28 points)
81 GP - 18 G, 20 A (38 points)
81 GP - 17 G, 20 A (37 points)
82 GP - 25 G, 34 A (59 points)

Player B is a great penalty killer and a good defensive player. He has great skating abilities and forechecks hard. He isn't a finisher by any means and he flobs many chances. He had a career year last season.

------

I'd argue that both have ONE top 6 quality season and that both are great bottom 6 players to have.

We already have player B and most of us don't want to see him in the top 6. Why any of you would want player A on our top 6 and especially, why would you trade Jordan Staal for a lesser albeit younger Pascal Dupuis? Everything your boy Kulemin can bring to the table, PAscal Dupuis also can. Isn't our problem having too many "Dupuis" and not enough skill players? Kulemin isn't an answer to that problem, he would be another borderliner top 6 player dragging down Sid or Geno. Would I like Kulemin as a third liner? SURE! Would I trade him for Staal? LOL!

People want to talk about Kulemin's upside, but the truth is that outside of his career year, he has been pretty consistant. He is a 30-35 point guy. He might score 45, but is it what we want in our top 6?

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06-22-2012, 01:31 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Gallatin View Post
I get Bobby Ryan, but why in the world would we want a 5'10'' 180lb winger who has never been a plus player or had a 20 goal season in his career?
Fixed

Given that Staal's contract refusal is now public, this trade is actually lopsided the other way. Cogliano is essentially a younger Dupuis.

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:32 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
It's apples and oranges.

There were a thousand variables involved in Neal not being able to score goals, the biggest one being that Mark Letestu was his center. .
And Kulemin has bounced around with several centers as well, none of whom are even as good as Staal offensively. He has played with Kessel some, but playing with a scoring winger does make the other winger better / give him more chances. I'll call it grapes to cherries and not apples to oranges.

In the spirit of Rodney King we must all get along.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
So how does that make a good trade for a contender?
How do you define "good" in this circumstance? Any trade that does not bring back a bona-fide 30G scorer or a Top 4 D is "bad"? What alternative do you propose? We're in a bad situation here... what's normally considered "good value for Staal" as a contending team, isn't going ot happen. So we either: enjoy one last season with him and hope we can acquire the other assets needed to win a Cup, then lose him for nothing. Or we trade him now.

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:34 PM
  #955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
Which of these two players would you consider a top 6 forward?

PLAYER A: 26 years old, 4 seasons in the NHL

73 GP - 15 G, 16 A (31 points)
78 GP - 16 G, 20 A (36 points)
82 GP - 30 G, 27 A (57 points)
70 GP - 7 G, 21 A (28 points)

Player A is considered as a good defensive player and has been a + player on a bad team for the last two years. He can play the PK and he is a winger. He had a career year two years ago.

PLAYER B: 33 years old, 12 seasons in the NHL

Last four seasons:

71 GP - 12 G, 16 A (28 points)
81 GP - 18 G, 20 A (38 points)
81 GP - 17 G, 20 A (37 points)
82 GP - 25 G, 34 A (59 points)

Player B is a great penalty killer and a good defensive player. He has great skating abilities and forechecks hard. He isn't a finisher by any means and he flobs many chances. He had a career year last season.

------

I'd argue that both have ONE top 6 quality season and that both are great bottom 6 players to have.

We already have player B and most of us don't want to see him in the top 6. Why any of you would want player A on our top 6 and especially, why would you trade Jordan Staal for a lesser albeit younger Pascal Dupuis? Everything your boy Kulemin can bring to the table, PAscal Dupuis also can. Isn't our problem having too many "Dupuis" and not enough skill players? Kulemin isn't an answer to that problem, he would be another borderliner top 6 player dragging down Sid or Geno. Would I like Kulemin as a third liner? SURE! Would I trade him for Staal? LOL!

People want to talk about Kulemin's upside, but the truth is that outside of his career year, he has been pretty consistant. He is a 30-35 point guy. He might score 45, but is it what we want in our top 6?
Statz man, statz.

Duper is a hell of a forward for this team. But he doesn't bring anywhere near the type of puck control and strong board play that Kulemin does.

What's more important. A player's stat sheet, or what he does to help our centers dominate play?

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:35 PM
  #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
How do you define "good" in this circumstance? Any trade that does not bring back a bona-fide 30G scorer or a Top 4 D is "bad". We're in a bad situation here... what's normally considered "good value for Staal" as a contending team, isn't going ot happen. So we either: enjoy one last season with him and hope we can acquire the other assets needed to win a Cup, then lose him for nothing. Or we trade him now.
A trade that makes it worthwhile for a contender to give up a player like Staal for a season plus Cup run. We're not the only team under the gun here. Rutherford has gone on record as saying he wants to make a splash this summer, so if he wants to lowball, he can just wait out the year and get hot under the collar while his team struggles again...desperately seeking Eric's brother. Because Carolina simply isn't very good.

I'd wager he blinks first.

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:36 PM
  #957
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I still don't see how we are in a "bad" situation. It's not our plan A, but it's not bad.

If you are Carolina/Toronto/etc, do you want Staal playing for Pittsburgh all year and working w/ Sid/Geno to get re-signed? Staal can definitely be swayed to re-think his decision if two of the top players are saying "stay".

Worse case scenario - we keep our top third line center and depth and try to win a Cup. If we win a Cup, even THAT can keep Staal around. We are not at the mercy of any GM right now. Not one bit.

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:37 PM
  #958
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Mark Spector is saying the Canes are now likely to use their 8th pick to select a player as they believe they'll end up with Staal sooner or later (UFA).

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:37 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I still don't see how we are in a "bad" situation. It's not our plan A, but it's not bad.

If you are Carolina/Toronto/etc, do you want Staal playing for Pittsburgh all year and working w/ Sid/Geno to get re-signed? Staal can definitely be swayed to re-think his decision if two of the top players are saying "stay".

Worse case scenario - we keep our top third line center and depth and try to win a Cup. If we win a Cup, even THAT can keep Staal around. We are not at the mercy of any GM right now. Not one bit.
Again, exactly. Chicken Little mentality is creeping in a little too often here.

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:40 PM
  #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Statz man, statz.

Duper is a hell of a forward for this team. But he doesn't bring anywhere near the type of puck control and strong board play that Kulemin does.

What's more important. A player's stat sheet, or what he does to help our centers dominate play?
Jan Bulis was great along the boards and controlled the puck like a god, but he had worse finishing ability than Dupuis, would you consider him a top 6 forward?

I don't care if Kulemin is Duane "THe Cowboy" Robertson with the puck, he isn't a top 6 worthy offensive player. Would I like him on our third line and as one of our PKers? Hell yeah! Would I want him next to Geno? HELL NO!

This Kulemin love is maddening. The guy had ONE good season and THREE mediocre ones. He is 26 years old. He is nothing special and he is NOT a piece I'd want in a Staal trade. I'd prefer to obtain a prospect with high upside not a 26 year old 35 point scorer. ANd you know what? I don't think we should center a Staal trade around a prospect either. I want impact or I'd keep Staal for this season and see what'S what after that.

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:41 PM
  #961
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Don't think this has been posted in here..

RUMOR-Rossi..

https://twitter.com/RobRossi_Trib/st...15011922677761

says Orpik could be available for the lazy.

Something is definitely in the works this off-season!

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:41 PM
  #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
Mark Spector is saying the Canes are now likely to use their 8th pick to select a player as they believe they'll end up with Staal sooner or later (UFA).
Fantastic. :|

With all these visions of top 6 wingers dancing in my head, I'll be pretty disappointed if we just hang on to Staal for another year and then he slips away.

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:41 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
Mark Spector is saying the Canes are now likely to use their 8th pick to select a player as they believe they'll end up with Staal sooner or later (UFA).
well that hurts.

**** you staal.

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:42 PM
  #964
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Rob Rossi is insufferable.

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:42 PM
  #965
mpp9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
Jan Bulis was great along the boards and controlled the puck like a god, but he had worse finishing ability than Dupuis, would you consider him a top 6 forward?

I don't care if Kulemin is Duane "THe Cowboy" Robertson with the puck, he isn't a top 6 worthy offensive player. Would I like him on our third line and as one of our PKers? Hell yeah! Would I want him next to Geno? HELL NO!

This Kulemin love is maddening. The guy had ONE good season and THREE mediocre ones. He is 26 years old. He is nothing special and he is NOT a piece I'd want in a Staal trade. I'd prefer to obtain a prospect with high upside not a 26 year old 35 point scorer.
You think Dupuis brings more to this team than Kulemin?

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:42 PM
  #966
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Rob Rossi is insufferable.
Not to mention incompetent and dishonest, IMO. Other than that, he's an awesome guy.

Closing this now... Head over to Episode VI.

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:45 PM
  #967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Rob Rossi is insufferable.
Please note - our GM is not opposed to making trades. No ****, Rossi! Every GM is more than willing to discuss players. Deals might just not happen. I'd say 95% of the NHL, right now, could be traded for.

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