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Luongo XIII - UnoLussy (Mod Warning In OP)

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Old
06-22-2012, 12:43 PM
  #926
LickTheEnvelope
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Originally Posted by PoundCake View Post
Which is also a dumb reason to trade for a player.

a player:
- Living in the area
- Having Family from the area
- Being somewhat popular with the fans

are NOT something a team that is trading for him would care about.
... Not at all true.

1. Living their usually means discounts (granted this doesn't apply in Luongo's case)
2. See 1.
3. Being popular with the fans is huge... means more revenue generated through Jersey and other merchandise sales which is massive for a market like Florida.

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06-22-2012, 12:43 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by sabresandcanucks View Post
As much as I hate to admit it...Vancouver isn't going to get anything of need if they move Luongo today. They will be best to hold off and wait for training camp when teams begin to realize their goaltending situation is in poor shape.

Look at these goalie trades and what GM's are saying...hope is eternal! teams believe these unproven young guys are going to magically solve their problems in goal.
Yep... with so many teams with very questionable goaltending going into next season it is almost certain that at least one of them will fail miserably and not meet expectations at all.

A GM facing a 2-8 start to the season where their goalie has been ventilated for 4 or 5 goals a game is going to be scrambling around for a solution REALLY fast to save their season. The rose coloured glasses don't take too long to come off. More ideal circumstances for the Canucks at that point if there isn't much being offered now.

I have no doubt that both goalies would come back as a tandem (Schneider's agent has said as much) if they knew it wasn't a permanent solution.

The only downside is if the Canucks have a plan in place and manage to get a top UFA/RFA this summer and need the cap space. Without that, they have no particular need to free up any cap space by dumping Luongo.

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06-22-2012, 12:45 PM
  #928
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Florida definitely is a potential suitor for a Luongo trade but I have to say, their goaltending situation as is, is perfect. They have their very own top young goalie in Jacob Markstrom, who should graduate to the NHL full time this season, and a great insurance option in Jose Theodore, who is signed for this season for a modest $1.5 million and is more than capable of being the starter if Markstrom isn't ready or a mentor if Markstrom does take the reins.

I ultimately think Florida's plan is to cut Clemmenson loose and go with a Theodore-Markstrom tandem this season. They would undoubtedly have some interest in Luongo but I'm sure they're more than happy with their current setup.

With Columbus just trading for Bobrovsky, the possibility of Luongo to Toronto just increased even more.

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06-22-2012, 12:46 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
... Not at all true.

1. Living their usually means discounts (granted this doesn't apply in Luongo's case)
2. See 1.
3. Being popular with the fans is huge... means more revenue generated through Jersey and other merchandise sales which is massive for a market like Florida.
So where do these things rank on the priority scale when a GM ponders acquiring a player? (If it's my GM, I would hope they're way down the list.)

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06-22-2012, 12:46 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Bugg View Post
The thing with that is, both Lindback, and especially Bob, have high potential and are slated to be good number ones. Why would a team have all that potential for a very young goaltender who could be a number one in a year or two, and then trade for a goaltender who's ten years older and still has ten years left on his contract?

I agree with you partially about the brave face, but with the Lindback and Bob trades, I think it backs Vancover more into a corner than they were before. If Schneider continues to take over as a starter, Luongo's value is going to plummet even more.
Bob i'm not sure on.

Lindback i'm even more unsure on. He was playing behind Weber, Suter and a Trotz system with lots of 2 way forwards + has adult-onset stills disease that is the whole reason he was drafted in the 7th round. While the disease hasn't been a huge issue so far i'd be worried about it if you need Lindback to carry 60+ games a year.

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06-22-2012, 12:47 PM
  #931
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I wouldn't mourn at all. In fact, I'd be elated if that were the case. The Leafs would have indirectly escaped cap hell that would have definitely popped up in a couple of years if they acquired Luongo.
That's great...

I wouldn't mourn long after... After all, the Canucks end up with a young, excellent #1 goaltender, and a 3rd round pick...

Enjoy cap heaven!

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06-22-2012, 12:47 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Spezzator View Post
Florida definitely is a potential suitor for a Luongo trade but I have to say, their goaltending situation as is, is perfect. They have their very own top young goalie in Jacob Markstrom, who should graduate to the NHL full time this season, and a great insurance option in Jose Theodore, who is signed for this season for a modest $1.5 million and is more than capable of being the starter if Markstrom isn't ready or a mentor if Markstrom does take the reins.

I ultimately think Florida's plan is to cut Clemmenson loose and go with a Theodore-Markstrom tandem this season. They would undoubtedly have some interest in Luongo but I'm sure they're more than happy with their current setup.

With Columbus just trading for Bobrovsky, the possibility of Luongo to Toronto just increased even more.
Wrong on several counts. Florida has already stated Markstrom is returning to the AHL this season.

Columbus has no bearing on Luongo. They may have tried to get Schneider, but I'm sure the price was too steep for their liking.

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Old
06-22-2012, 12:48 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
So where do these things rank on the priority scale when a GM ponders acquiring a player? (If it's my GM, I would hope they're way down the list.)
Very high...

1st is how good the player is
2nd is contract
3rd is revenue brought in and how that could offset contract
4th intangibles
5th other bonuses

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06-22-2012, 12:48 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Spezzator View Post
I ultimately think Florida's plan is to cut Clemmenson loose and go with a Theodore-Markstrom tandem this season. They would undoubtedly have some interest in Luongo but I'm sure they're more than happy with their current setup.
I seem to recall Florida stating that they planned on having Markstrom another year in the minors.

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06-22-2012, 12:48 PM
  #935
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I read that they can't file for arbitration with him until 7/5, which leaves a few days when he can be offer sheeted.
you could be right...i might have heard that too.

but realisticlly what team is going to sign Cory to a deal that we won't match?

I don't see cory signing a multi year contact offer because the canucks would just match it and continue with a lui + schnider combo.

A one year deal might be a killer for a team to sign him to and allow him to walk to UFA if the nucks don't match.

even at 3.5 million matching him for 1 year gives us time to deal one of them else where.

Sign him to a 5year 5 mil deal and you give up something like 2 firsts + instead of trading for luongo is just stupid.

I am honestly not worried about a offer sheet.

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06-22-2012, 12:48 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Bob i'm not sure on.

Lindback i'm even more unsure on. He was playing behind Weber, Suter and a Trotz system with lots of 2 way forwards + has a adult-onset stills that is the whole reason he was drafted in the 7th round. While the disease hasn't been a huge issue so far i'd be worried about it if you need Lindback to carry 60+ games a year.
He has been 100% symptom free since diagnosis, so that bodes well.

The Lightning researched his situation extensively, they weren't going to make this deal if they had concerns about his health.

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06-22-2012, 12:48 PM
  #937
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Yep... with so many teams with very questionable goaltending going into next season it is almost certain that at least one of them will fail miserably and not meet expectations at all.

A GM facing a 2-8 start to the season where their goalie has been ventilated for 4 or 5 goals a game is going to be scrambling around for a solution REALLY fast to save their season. The rose coloured glasses don't take too long to come off. More ideal circumstances for the Canucks at that point if there isn't much being offered now.

I have no doubt that both goalies would come back as a tandem (Schneider's agent has said as much) if they knew it wasn't a permanent solution.

The only downside is if the Canucks have a plan in place and manage to get a top UFA/RFA this summer and need the cap space. Without that, they have no particular need to free up any cap space by dumping Luongo.

dump booth and ballard boom 8.2 mil. ballard is gonna get moved soon im sure.

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06-22-2012, 12:48 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by sabresandcanucks View Post
As much as I hate to admit it...Vancouver isn't going to get anything of need if they move Luongo today. They will be best to hold off and wait for training camp when teams begin to realize their goaltending situation is in poor shape.

Look at these goalie trades and what GM's are saying...hope is eternal! teams believe these unproven young guys are going to magically solve their problems in goal.
Teams know that young goalies are a risk. They aren't dumb.

Waiting until the season starts is a possibility but Schneider isn't going to sign a contract until Luongo is gone and missing training camp is not a good idea.

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06-22-2012, 12:49 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
... Not at all true.

1. Living their usually means discounts (granted this doesn't apply in Luongo's case)
2. See 1.
3. Being popular with the fans is huge... means more revenue generated through Jersey and other merchandise sales which is massive for a market like Florida.
No, Sweater sales would matter much less to a team with a smaller fanbase. Even if Florida had a fanbase like Toronto, "sweater sales" are not something GMs base trades off of.

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06-22-2012, 12:49 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
Vancouver is under pressure to move Luongo now. They need to sign Schneider and can't risk him being offer-sheeted
Wrong....they will match any offersheet and have lots of cap space. Outside of the cultural issue of having Luongo sit on the bench come October Gillis has no pressure to make a deal now.

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06-22-2012, 12:49 PM
  #941
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Burke tried to tell us that Cloutier and Brochu (to be fair, he wanted Garth Snow, ooh) were the real deal too.

"The teamís major question mark was in net, where Dan Cloutier was unproven as a starting goaltender and no backup goalie was in place. At that fallís waiver draft, general manager Brian Burke addressed the backup goalie position, claiming minor-league veteran Martin Brochu, a decision that many questioned at the time. Why did Burke enter the season with an unproven backup behind an unproven starter?"

Does the bolded sound familiar, Leafs fans? Don't fall for Burke's lies about Reimer/Scrivens being the future. We've been there before. We're really not just making this up to make Lu sound better than he is. He will help your team immensely if you get him, more than Reimer/Scrivens ever can or will. But you gotta give to get.
That wasn't a lie.

Burke actually did believe in Cloutier and showed it by going with him as the #1. It didn't work out for him, but it wasn't a lie.

I don't think any Leaf fan will disagree with you that Luongo would help on the ice. Its the giving up significant pieces to acquire a 33 year old goaltender with recent issues and a really long contract (which even if you sugar coat it with the "he'll probably retire" argument is still pretty scary) that makes us balk.

I'm betting on a veteran backup through trade or a Clemmensen/Hedberg type through free agency to compliment Reimer/Scrivens. It may not be the best choice in terms of on ice product for next year but I could see Burke making it and going with Reimer/Scrivens for the future if Gillis' demands for Luongo are as high as some think they are.

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06-22-2012, 12:50 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Very high...

1st is how good the player is
2nd is contract
3rd is revenue brought in and how that could offset contract
4th intangibles
5th other bonuses
Which of these is "his family lives close by," tho? Intangibles? To me it would have to fall in either 4 or 5 (or below) which on a 5 item list is pretty low. As it should be.

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06-22-2012, 12:50 PM
  #943
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not a worry...they can take him to arbitration....there isn't a worry about that for now.
They can take him to arbitration only on July 5th. He is open to offersheet from July 1st to July 5th. If I remember correctly this is due to his previous salary being less than 1.5 million.

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06-22-2012, 12:51 PM
  #944
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Outside of the cultural issue of having Luongo sit on the bench come October Gillis has no pressure to make a deal now.
Wouldn't that be pressure in and of itself?

Canucks will not start the season with both Schneider and Luongo

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06-22-2012, 12:51 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
He has been 100% symptom free since diagnosis, so that bodes well.

The Lightning researched his situation extensively, they weren't going to make this deal if they had concerns about his health.
Not saying he will collapse but it is an issue considering Lindback has never played any serious amount of games at the NHL level (38 games over two years...).

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06-22-2012, 12:51 PM
  #946
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I wouldn't mourn at all. In fact, I'd be elated if that were the case. The Leafs would have indirectly escaped cap hell that would have definitely popped up in a couple of years if they acquired Luongo.
5.3M for a starting goalie isnít cap hell.

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06-22-2012, 12:52 PM
  #947
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That wasn't a lie.

Burke actually did believe in Cloutier and showed it by going with him as the #1. It didn't work out for him, but it wasn't a lie.

I don't think any Leaf fan will disagree with you that Luongo would help on the ice. Its the giving up significant pieces to acquire a 33 year old goaltender with recent issues and a really long contract (which even if you sugar coat it with the "he'll probably retire" argument is still pretty scary) that makes us balk.

I'm betting on a veteran backup through trade or a Clemmensen/Hedberg type through free agency to compliment Reimer/Scrivens. It may not be the best choice in terms of on ice product for next year but I could see Burke making it and going with Reimer/Scrivens for the future if Gillis' demands for Luongo are as high as some think they are.
I'm curious... How many years has it been since the Leafs have been in the playoffs? I really don't know...

How many more years are you, personally, prepared to wait? Again, just curious...

It kind of put things in perspective (as a Canuck fan)... I don't even really care about the regular season (and yet, the Canucks are the best regular season team the last 2 years)... I just can't wait for the playoffs...

And yet, I imagine that most Leaf fans are basically just waiting for the regular season, and hoping for the playoffs, one day...

Count your blessings, Canuck fans... Thank Burke, Nonis, and Gillis that the Canucks have fantastic goaltending...


Last edited by I in the Eye: 06-22-2012 at 12:57 PM.
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Old
06-22-2012, 12:52 PM
  #948
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Which of these is "his family lives close by," tho? Intangibles? To me it would have to fall in either 4 or 5 (or below) which on a 5-6 item list is pretty low. As it should be.
Yes that would fall down the 5/6 range but how much revenue the player can generate is huge, right up there with contract.

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06-22-2012, 12:54 PM
  #949
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5.3M for a starting goalie isnít cap hell.
$5.3m cap hit for a goaltender that will eventually be surpassed in quality of play by a younger, cheaper alternative is certainly not a pleasant situation. It also doesn't get any rosier once you factor in how that will impact on a teams ability to re-sign players or improve through free agent signings.

Roberto is 33 after all.

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06-22-2012, 12:54 PM
  #950
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5.3M for a starting goalie isnít cap hell.
I agree with Nuck fans on this one. You can knock Roberto for being over-rated, not playing his best in the playoffs overall, etc. if you want, but 5.3 is just not a horrible cap hit anymore. Is it a little high? Sure. But there are much worse deals. By the time it expires, that cap hit will actually look really good (assuming the cap rises).

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