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Luongo XIII - UnoLussy (Mod Warning In OP)

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Old
06-22-2012, 12:55 PM
  #951
Boltsfan2029
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Not saying he will collapse but it is an issue considering Lindback has never played any serious amount of games at the NHL level (38 games over two years...).
True, but they clearly have more reason to believe that won't happen than reason to believe it will, or Lindback wouldn't be a Bolt now. That said, since SY won't sign him to a long-term contract, while it would be a pain to start over, we would have that option. We also just signed Helenius, who could theoretically just beat Lindback out for the #1 spot in the next 2 years, anyway.

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06-22-2012, 12:57 PM
  #952
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I agree with Nuck fans on this one. You can knock Roberto for being over-rated, not playing his best in the playoffs overall, etc. if you want, but 5.3 is just not a horrible cap hit anymore. Is it a little high? Sure. But there are much worse deals. By the time it expires, that cap hit will actually look really good (assuming the cap rises).
It's a great cap hit as long as he's the #1 goalie. It may be a manageable cap hit when he's the back-up, but it wouldn't be a very smart one.

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06-22-2012, 12:57 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Provost View Post
Yep... with so many teams with very questionable goaltending going into next season it is almost certain that at least one of them will fail miserably and not meet expectations at all.

A GM facing a 2-8 start to the season where their goalie has been ventilated for 4 or 5 goals a game is going to be scrambling around for a solution REALLY fast to save their season. The rose coloured glasses don't take too long to come off. More ideal circumstances for the Canucks at that point if there isn't much being offered now.

I have no doubt that both goalies would come back as a tandem (Schneider's agent has said as much) if they knew it wasn't a permanent solution.

The only downside is if the Canucks have a plan in place and manage to get a top UFA/RFA this summer and need the cap space. Without that, they have no particular need to free up any cap space by dumping Luongo.

dump booth and ballard boom 8.2 mil. ballard is gonna get moved soon im sure.

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06-22-2012, 12:57 PM
  #954
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Wouldn't that be pressure in and of itself?

Canucks will not start the season with both Schneider and Luongo
Do you have inside info on the canucks, I sure do not.

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06-22-2012, 12:59 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Very high...

1st is how good the player is
2nd is contract
3rd is revenue brought in and how that could offset contract
4th intangibles
5th other bonuses
You based this incredibly arbitrary list off of what?

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06-22-2012, 01:00 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
I'm curious... How many years has it been since the Leafs have been in the playoffs? I really don't know...

How many more years are you, personally, prepared to wait? Again, just curious...
Speaking as a neutral observer...

Is there any point going into the playoffs without believing you have a legitimate shot at winning? I don't see the Leafs as contenders with Luongo ainec, is it actually productive to squeak into the playoffs and get ripped apart in 4-5 games? It seems to be the most likely scenario. It does not make sense to break what you are building for an early playoff exit.

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06-22-2012, 01:01 PM
  #957
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Of course Tallon isn't sitting there stating that. His job is to help the Panthers. Again, I'm not the one stating that Florida is interested, to be honest I was a bit surprised when that rumour surfaced.

However now that is has, along with the one stating that 3 other GM's are kicking the tires, there is no reason to assume Vancouver is going to unload Luongo for cap dumps and spare parts.

You are accusing me of failing to see the other team's perspective, but you're doing the exact same thing - in this case in regards to the Canucks.
Vancouver will move Luongo for the best deal. Period. And with 4 suitors, who likely know what each other is offering, they can afford to focus on picks/prospects or a roster player that helps them.

Hell, even with that being said, my Florida proposal still contains a dump of sorts in Upshall.

You will notice i have NEVER posted anything close to a Komi and a 5th. Ive tried Ashton,Colbourne and a 2nd, Franson, Colbourne/Ashton and a second or Schenn,prospect and a pick. I've tried Schenn,Kadri and a 2nd (35th) for Luongo,Schroeder. I have stated all along that the Leafs are not in a position to give up a top 5 pick or our best young D-man+ at this time. See, we can afford to look at picks/prospects as well, just not a top 5 pick. You will notice in my offers i didn't add a dump/any of LACK. There MAY be 3-4 suitors, but i can guarantree you that they are looking at the fact that Van really wants/needs to move Luongo and the value of the offers will reflect that.

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06-22-2012, 01:02 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Speaking as a neutral observer...

Is there any point going into the playoffs without believing you have a legitimate shot at winning? I don't see the Leafs as contenders with Luongo ainec, is it actually productive to squeak into the playoffs and get ripped apart in 4-5 games? It seems to be the most likely scenario. It does not make sense to break what you are building for an early playoff exit.
As Dave Nonis stated yesterday, filling 1 hole by creating 2 others is counterproductive.

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06-22-2012, 01:03 PM
  #959
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Do you have inside info on the canucks, I sure do not.
It's amusing that Toronto fans seem to think they know how Gillis works, and they seem to assume he works in the same way as their dear leader. Gillis is incredibly patient. Almost annoyingly so. Given what he's done in the past, I'd guess he'd rather keep both goalies again than take a deal he isn't happy with.

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06-22-2012, 01:04 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Speaking as a neutral observer...

Is there any point going into the playoffs without believing you have a legitimate shot at winning? I don't see the Leafs as contenders with Luongo ainec, is it actually productive to squeak into the playoffs and get ripped apart in 4-5 games? It seems to be the most likely scenario. It does not make sense to break what you are building for an early playoff exit.
$1 million per home playoff date says it is.

(probably more in Toronto)

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06-22-2012, 01:11 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Provost View Post
Yep... with so many teams with very questionable goaltending going into next season it is almost certain that at least one of them will fail miserably and not meet expectations at all.

A GM facing a 2-8 start to the season where their goalie has been ventilated for 4 or 5 goals a game is going to be scrambling around for a solution REALLY fast to save their season. The rose coloured glasses don't take too long to come off. More ideal circumstances for the Canucks at that point if there isn't much being offered now.
I have no doubt that both goalies would come back as a tandem (Schneider's agent has said as much) if they knew it wasn't a permanent solution.

The only downside is if the Canucks have a plan in place and manage to get a top UFA/RFA this summer and need the cap space. Without that, they have no particular need to free up any cap space by dumping Luongo.
Unless the new CBA gives more flexibility it's doubtful that Luongo is possible as a trade during the season. Or if it happens Canucks would have to take more back in salary then they would during the offseason. Too hard to even out all the cap implications during the season makes it hard to do trades. It's a good idea but I think waiting works out right up until the season starts, might increase value but once the season starts it gets harder to do a deal.

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06-22-2012, 01:12 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by jimmythescot View Post
It's amusing that Toronto fans seem to think they know how Gillis works, and they seem to assume he works in the same way as their dear leader. Gillis is incredibly patient. Almost annoyingly so. Given what he's done in the past, I'd guess he'd rather keep both goalies again than take a deal he isn't happy with.
So a whole summer of drama involving the Luongo camp, the Schneider camp, the media, and the fans will help his team, how?

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06-22-2012, 01:12 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
In the earlier threads, many fans brushed off everything you just said. It was a "lock" Luongo was coming to Tampa and his contract would be ideal for us. We tried to tell them the fit wasn't good, but they guaranteed he'd be coming here and we were beyond stupid if we thought otherwise. It's good to know that at least one Vancouver fan understands that, no matter how good a goalie Luongo is, he just didn't fit here rather than accusing us of not valuing him properly.

(As for Roloson, he got us within 1 goal of the finals year before last. It would have taken unbelievable powers of precognition to predict how badly his performance fell from then to the start of last season. He did regain quite a bit of his form toward the end of the year. But, he was really only signed as a stopgap, anyway.)
I can't speak for other Vancouver fans. I actually think that if you ignore the salary structure TB makes the most sense for Luongo. He makes you guys a contender immediately, IMO. The problem is that you can't really ignore the salary structure. I'm interested to see what Yzerman's plan is here. Lindback has some good long term promise but he needs to go out and get someone to play at least half the games.

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06-22-2012, 01:13 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
I'm curious... How many years has it been since the Leafs have been in the playoffs? I really don't know...

How many more years are you, personally, prepared to wait? Again, just curious...
Its been far too long since the Leafs have been in the playoffs that's for sure. But I'm curious....what does that have to do with what Brian Burke thinks of Reimer?

Burke, like any GM, will choose the available option to him that he thinks gives his team the best chance to compete now and in the future.

I'm prepared to wait in the sense that I'm erring on the side of pessimism (good practice as a Leaf fan...healthier) and I will always be a Leaf fan. That said I hate it when the team is losing. I'd be happy with a goalie of Luongo's caliber being acquired this offseason as I'm sure Burke would be too...but that doesn't necessarily make it a good idea. It all depends on the asking price and weighing the pros and cons of that contract compared with faith in Reimer and/or Scrivens.

All that said, my "preparedness" really doesn't make a difference as to what the team will actually do.

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06-22-2012, 01:15 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I can't speak for other Vancouver fans. I actually think that if you ignore the salary structure TB makes the most sense for Luongo. He makes you guys a contender immediately, IMO. The problem is that you can't really ignore the salary structure. I'm interested to see what Yzerman's plan is here. Lindback has some good long term promise but he needs to go out and get someone to play at least half the games.
You mean like Mathieu Garon?

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06-22-2012, 01:15 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by PoundCake View Post
Bolded part wouldn't matter at all to Florida. Stop bringing that up Nuck fans.
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Originally Posted by PoundCake View Post
You're reaching.

It's exponentially more important for a player to be a good fit at the right price. Florida has serviceable goaltending now and has an amazing prospect as well. Luongo will also be expensive both in terms of salary and cost to acquire in a trade.

All those things are weighing against Luongo going to Florida, yet people bring up that his wife is from there like it's some kind of counterpoint.
I don't think I am reaching at all. I stated that the fact does have importance, while also stating that the importance is less than some perceive it to be. I don't think it is enough to base a deal upon, but if a deal is close to being done it could be the tipping point to make it happen.

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06-22-2012, 01:15 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Speaking as a neutral observer...

Is there any point going into the playoffs without believing you have a legitimate shot at winning? I don't see the Leafs as contenders with Luongo ainec, is it actually productive to squeak into the playoffs and get ripped apart in 4-5 games? It seems to be the most likely scenario. It does not make sense to break what you are building for an early playoff exit.
I made this point fairly far back, so I will repeat it in this context.

At this point (the longest playoff drought in the league with no sign of improving)... it is likely VERY damaging for the Leafs to continue to miss the playoffs.

After losing for so long, you just get into a cycle where you keep losing your players to free agency as fast or faster than you can draft new players. I mean already... who is your longest serving Leaf? Kulemin?

The only way to stop the exodus is to overpay the players to stay (no one wants to lose forever)... that really removes ability to build a winner when every contract is a bad value under the cap.

This year's draft pick is likely going to be a couple of seasons away from being an NHL regular, and most likely a couple of years beyond that before being a significant contributor at the top of the roster (pretty safe that they aren't going to be a complete bust). That puts you 2-4 more years down the road and a lot more existing roster players gone.

Just look at next summer. You have it appears to be exactly 3 forwards signed for the 2013-2014 season.... 4 holes in the top 6 to fill. Add in a couple of RFAs who will likely re-sign and you have 5 forwards committed to your club and maybe a couple of young guys who may be ready to be promoted.

If you don't think that making the playoffs this year and showing some significant improvement and commitment to winning is important, I don't think you are considering A LOT of factors.

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06-22-2012, 01:15 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
You will notice i have NEVER posted anything close to a Komi and a 5th. Ive tried Ashton,Colbourne and a 2nd, Franson, Colbourne/Ashton and a second or Schenn,prospect and a pick. I've tried Schenn,Kadri and a 2nd (35th) for Luongo,Schroeder. I have stated all along that the Leafs are not in a position to give up a top 5 pick or our best young D-man+ at this time. See, we can afford to look at picks/prospects as well, just not a top 5 pick. You will notice in my offers i didn't add a dump/any of LACK. There MAY be 3-4 suitors, but i can guarantree you that they are looking at the fact that Van really wants/needs to move Luongo and the value of the offers will reflect that.
I think the pieces you've suggested will likely be in whatever deal goes down. Not sure what exact mix or what extra salary dumps will be involved but I think this is the most likely return.

It's possible some other team we dont see as being a player is crazy for Luongo and makes a better offer but I think it's a longshot.

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06-22-2012, 01:16 PM
  #969
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
you think luongo would go to CBJ
Probably not, but Columbus would have been a great place to work a deal for Schneider around. Basically, the Brobrovsky deal takes one more destination off the plate and lowers the demand for goalies, in general, that much more.

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06-22-2012, 01:17 PM
  #970
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Speaking as a neutral observer...

Is there any point going into the playoffs without believing you have a legitimate shot at winning? I don't see the Leafs as contenders with Luongo ainec, is it actually productive to squeak into the playoffs and get ripped apart in 4-5 games? It seems to be the most likely scenario. It does not make sense to break what you are building for an early playoff exit.
It makes it more fun, to me... Those five LA games this year (1st round) was more exciting, to me, than probably 80 of the regular season games... There was really only a couple regular season games that I was really excited to watch... The rest, I PVR'd, and while I watched them, I got other "real world" stuff done first... Obviously, the cup run last year was even more fun... But I'd take a first round exit over no playoffs any time...

As a Canuck fan, we lived for years with less than great goaltending... IMHO, goaltending is the single most important ingredient to making the playoffs (and going far in the playoffs)... If you don't have that ingredient, a team is more likely to miss or disappoint...

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06-22-2012, 01:17 PM
  #971
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So a whole summer of drama involving the Luongo camp, the Schneider camp, the media, and the fans will help his team, how?
Luongo and Schneider as about as professional as they come. They've both had numerous chances to screw the team over with no repercussions, but they've never taken it. They're both very popular in the room, and the speculation about Vancouver goalies isn't anything new for either of them.

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06-22-2012, 01:18 PM
  #972
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I don't think I am reaching at all. I stated that the fact does have importance, while also stating that the importance is less than some perceive it to be. I don't think it is enough to base a deal upon, but if a deal is close to being done it could be the tipping point to make it happen.
Sure, but you are glazing over the fact that a deal won't be anywhere close to done with things to consider like: salary/team needs/price.

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06-22-2012, 01:18 PM
  #973
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Originally Posted by Provost View Post
I made this point fairly far back, so I will repeat it in this context.

At this point (the longest playoff drought in the league with no sign of improving)... it is likely VERY damaging for the Leafs to continue to miss the playoffs.

After losing for so long, you just get into a cycle where you keep losing your players to free agency as fast or faster than you can draft new players. I mean already... who is your longest serving Leaf? Kulemin?

The only way to stop the exodus is to overpay the players to stay (no one wants to lose forever)... that really removes ability to build a winner when every contract is a bad value under the cap.

This year's draft pick is likely going to be a couple of seasons away from being an NHL regular, and most likely a couple of years beyond that before being a significant contributor at the top of the roster (pretty safe that they aren't going to be a complete bust). That puts you 2-4 more years down the road and a lot more existing roster players gone.

Just look at next summer. You have it appears to be exactly 3 forwards signed for the 2013-2014 season.... 4 holes in the top 6 to fill. Add in a couple of RFAs who will likely re-sign and you have 5 forwards committed to your club and maybe a couple of young guys who may be ready to be promoted.

If you don't think that making the playoffs this year and showing some significant improvement and commitment to winning is important, I don't think you are considering A LOT of factors.

This is so true, you don't want to become known as the new version of the islanders.

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06-22-2012, 01:20 PM
  #974
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Speaking as a neutral observer...

Is there any point going into the playoffs without believing you have a legitimate shot at winning? I don't see the Leafs as contenders with Luongo ainec, is it actually productive to squeak into the playoffs and get ripped apart in 4-5 games? It seems to be the most likely scenario. It does not make sense to break what you are building for an early playoff exit.
it helps the gm and coach keep their jobs, and ownership hold off the media and fan attacks on them.

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06-22-2012, 01:22 PM
  #975
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Just so people are aware, it is being reported that CBJ is still looking for another goalie. They are still in the luongo hunt... well as much as they were before.

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