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Flyers interested in Ducks pick - Lavoie

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Old
06-22-2012, 02:19 PM
  #76
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schenn10 View Post
Schenn is worth way more than the 6th overall.
Well, I'm not sure what you mean by "way" more--but I agree that Schenn > 6th overall, and I wouldn't make that swap. In fact, I don't imagine the Flyers would flip Schenn for any pick in this draft, including #1.

In the context of that response, though, that wasn't the point. I was focusing on the rest of the deal. Considering the gap between Schenn and the 6th only made it more unbalanced.

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06-22-2012, 02:19 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by ayshplaysh View Post
JVR can.
I realize that.

But can Voracek?

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06-22-2012, 02:19 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
God no.
I don't normally say this, but you're a moron. Ryan is not worth anywhere near the amount you think he is.

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06-22-2012, 02:20 PM
  #79
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Sbisa better be coming back with that
Sbisa's not for sale.

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06-22-2012, 02:21 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by HighOFFHockey View Post
I don't normally say this, but you're a moron. Ryan is not worth anywhere near the amount you think he is.
What? I was responding to a guy asking for Schenn, JVR, AND two first rounders...

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06-22-2012, 02:21 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
I realize that.

But can Voracek?
I don't think we know, which is why no one has answered.

He played the right side, as far as I remember, last year. He's also LH. Perhaps a Columbus fan can chime in on whether he ever played the left side there?

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06-22-2012, 02:22 PM
  #82
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I'd do JVR, Schenn and 20th OA for Ryan and 6th.

Couturier will be ready to handle 2nd line center duties by the time Briere is done and Talbot at his rate is a fine 3rd liner. Adds a phenomenal LW.

Schenn is tough to lose, but as it stands, he and Couturiers development will be stymied if they arent played, and there is only really one center position between the two. JVR is a let down, will be glad when he is gone, though I still would wish him the best, and a healthy career.

I would look at the deal as:

JVR + 20th < Ryan
Schenn > 6th

The amount Ryan bests JVR and a first and Schenn bests the 6th is a wash IMO.

Deal meets the needs of both franchises. Anahiem gets a young center with real first line potential, and a big top 6 winger yet to reach potential. Still adds a solid prospect at 20 (Matta, Ceci, Finn, Koekkoek, Wilson, Gaunce expected to be available in and around that area), or could flip the pick for someone else.

Philly adds a talented winger from the area who grea up watching the Flyers to play along side Giroux, a good young player who fits into the Flyers age group nicely with great NHL experience, and a 6th OA to draft the big name D-Prospect the team is looking for.

DO NOT want to replace JVR with Voracek. I'm huge on Voracek's game.

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Old
06-22-2012, 02:22 PM
  #83
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I could see JvR for the 6th straight up, or Ryan + 6th for JvR + Schenn + 20th.

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06-22-2012, 02:22 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Well, I'm not sure what you mean by "way" more--but I agree that Schenn > 6th overall, and I wouldn't make that swap. In fact, I don't imagine the Flyers would flip Schenn for any pick in this draft, including #1.

In the context of that response, though, that wasn't the point. I was focusing on the rest of the deal. Considering the gap between Schenn and the 6th only made it more unbalanced.
Because he was a top 5 pick 5 years ago and his value has gone up. He went on to break records in the WJC, and looks primed to become a great 2 way center in the NHL all at 20 years old.

Why would that player have even close to the same value as the 6th overall pick which could easily bust. In Schenn you have a known commodity, and one that you know will be able to succeed in the NHL. Who knows what the 6th could turn into?

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06-22-2012, 02:22 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Paladin2799 View Post
I wonder with Tor/Ana history what would happen if anahiem gets Brayden on their team.

Getzlaf for Luke++

Grabo for Brayden?

I dunno drawing at straws lol

wait why am I surprised? Toronto, by virtue of being the Toronto Maple leafs, can have all the NHL's stars for scraps in all mediums of hockey with the exception of reality.

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06-22-2012, 02:24 PM
  #86
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I'd love to see Crosby's face when he is up to take the FO and looks at the Flyers lineup and sees Hartnell -Giroux - Ryan staring back at him lol

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06-22-2012, 02:24 PM
  #87
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I can't decide who I'd rather have, JVR or Voracek.

Can a Philly fan weigh in?

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06-22-2012, 02:25 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schenn10 View Post
Because he was a top 5 pick 5 years ago and his value has gone up. He went on to break records in the WJC, and looks primed to become a great 2 way center in the NHL all at 20 years old.

Why would that player have even close to the same value as the 6th overall pick which could easily bust. In Schenn you have a known commodity, and one that you know will be able to succeed in the NHL. Who knows what the 6th could turn into?
...I'm not sure what you're arguing with.

It was a rhetorical position--concede something the other side might claim, and show how the rest of the argument (or, in this case, the proposal) still doesn't stand up.

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06-22-2012, 02:26 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
I can't decide who I'd rather have, JVR or Voracek.

Can a Philly fan weigh in?
It depends on how you anticipate Anaheim structuring their lines, but I would say that Voracek would be a better long-term fit with Getzlaf and Perry (if he can play the left-side) because of his passing and defense. JVR would better suited to anchor a second scoring line.

Does that make sense?

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06-22-2012, 02:28 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
I can't decide who I'd rather have, JVR or Voracek.

Can a Philly fan weigh in?
I guess it boils down to this; do you want Schenn or Voracek? Cause IMO, both aren't being involved.

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06-22-2012, 02:28 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
I can't decide who I'd rather have, JVR or Voracek.

Can a Philly fan weigh in?
JvR is bigger and has higher upside, if he puts it together he is basically Bobby Ryan.

Voracek also has alot of upside, he dangles better, but is a little smaller. He also has a higher celing.

JvR best case: 40-40-80
JvR worst case: what he is now

Voracek Best Case: 25-50-75
Voracek Worst case: what he is now, 15-35-50

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06-22-2012, 02:28 PM
  #92
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Keep in mind that Anaheim has absolutely no need whatsoever to trade Ryan or the 6th. If Philly wants them they are going to have to make it worthwhile, meaning most likely some degree of overpayment. Not 5 extra firsts overpayment but it is going to have to throw a little extra pain or risk at Philly IMO. There's no reason for Anaheim to do this otherwise.

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06-22-2012, 02:28 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
I'd do JVR, Schenn and 20th OA for Ryan and 6th.

Couturier will be ready to handle 2nd line center duties by the time Briere is done and Talbot at his rate is a fine 3rd liner. Adds a phenomenal LW.

Schenn is tough to lose, but as it stands, he and Couturiers development will be stymied if they arent played, and there is only really one center position between the two. JVR is a let down, will be glad when he is gone, though I still would wish him the best, and a healthy career.

I would look at the deal as:

JVR + 20th < Ryan
Schenn > 6th

The amount Ryan bests JVR and a first and Schenn bests the 6th is a wash IMO.

Deal meets the needs of both franchises. Anahiem gets a young center with real first line potential, and a big top 6 winger yet to reach potential. Still adds a solid prospect at 20 (Matta, Ceci, Finn, Koekkoek, Wilson, Gaunce expected to be available in and around that area), or could flip the pick for someone else.

Philly adds a talented winger from the area who grea up watching the Flyers to play along side Giroux, a good young player who fits into the Flyers age group nicely with great NHL experience, and a 6th OA to draft the big name D-Prospect the team is looking for.

DO NOT want to replace JVR with Voracek. I'm huge on Voracek's game.
There's no way the Ducks do that.

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06-22-2012, 02:30 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by 96 View Post
I could see JvR for the 6th straight up, or Ryan + 6th for JvR + Schenn + 20th.
take out schenn and add read or cousins instead

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06-22-2012, 02:30 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
I guess it boils down to this; do you want Schenn or Voracek? Cause IMO, both aren't being involved.
Where do you keep getting this from? I never once mentioned Schenn and Voracek. Not once. Holy ****!

And I don't expect to land Schenn for the 6th overall pick, but I'd imagine Voracek and JVR might be available.

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06-22-2012, 02:31 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Keep in mind that Anaheim has absolutely no need whatsoever to trade Ryan or the 6th. If Philly wants them they are going to have to make it worthwhile, meaning most likely some degree of overpayment. Not 5 extra firsts overpayment but it is going to have to throw a little extra pain or risk at Philly IMO. There's no reason for Anaheim to do this otherwise.
You realize that you could make the exact same argument for the Flyers, right?

In fact, you could probably argue that Anaheim's need for a young, high-end 2C outweighs the Flyers need for a top-line winger.

Everybody always wants an overpayment. Both sides want to win the trade.

It is more productive here to focus on identifying fair value to both sides, rather than figuring out which side deserves more of an overpayment.

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06-22-2012, 02:31 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
There's no way the Ducks do that.
The risk is really all on the Flyers on this. If JvR fulfills his potential, he basically becomes Bobby Ryan, which would make the trade

Bobby Ryan + Brayden Schenn + 20th for Bobby Ryan + 6th

Obviously there is the chance JvR never fulfills that potential but the trade still isnt horrible is JvR produces 50 pts a year, and you get Brayden Schenn and a later 1st, and thats the absolute worst case that can happen for the ducks.

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06-22-2012, 02:32 PM
  #98
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Okay what would the Ducks have to add to get Schenn with the 6th OV?

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06-22-2012, 02:32 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Where do you keep getting this from? I never once mentioned Schenn and Voracek. Not once. Holy ****!

And I don't expect to land Schenn for the 6th overall pick, but I'd imagine Voracek and JVR might be available.
Most ANA fans keep saying Schenn or Couts have to be involved in the deal. That's what I'm getting it from.

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06-22-2012, 02:32 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by DuckNoire View Post
If the Flyers really want Ryan + 6th, you just know either Schenn or Couturier will have to be involved.
Schenn jvr and a first for

Ryan 1st in 12 and 13

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