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Flyers interested in Ducks pick - Lavoie

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Old
06-22-2012, 02:54 PM
  #151
tryce91
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Regardless, it's reasonable to expect a top 10 pick and a 2nd line wing at a minimum for a legitimate 1st line wing like Ryan. JVR covers the 2nd liner, and with where the Philly 1sts are it would require two of them and a 2nd to get a top 10 pick. I'm not sure how that's debatable.
Reasonable, but one could argue that JVR covers the top 10 value + Read or Voracek covers the 2nd line wing.

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06-22-2012, 02:55 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by gliff View Post
You are telling me that Schenn+Coturier has move value then Ryan+6th overall??
Yes it does. There isn't even a consensus top pick. That should tell you this draft isn't that strong. That 6th pick isn't as valuable as you think. Not that valuable to grab Couturier.

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06-22-2012, 02:57 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by tryce91 View Post
Reasonable, but one could argue that JVR covers the top 10 value + Read or Voracek covers the 2nd line wing.
Honestly its all semantics and what you consider a second liner. I'd say that most young second liners have top 10 value or more themselves.

I think most GMs would be very pleased if their top 10 pick turned into a young 2nd liner

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06-22-2012, 02:57 PM
  #154
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Actually, now that I think about it, the Flyers sent Fedotenko and 2 2nds to Carolina for the #4 overall when they took Pitkanen.

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06-22-2012, 02:58 PM
  #155
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I'll put it simply so everyone understands. The only way the Ducks are getting Couturier is if Bobby Ryan's name is replaced by Perry's. End of story.

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06-22-2012, 02:58 PM
  #156
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Actually, now that I think about it, the Flyers sent Fedotenko and 2 2nds to Carolina for the #4 overall when they took Pitkanen.
Irrelevant since our GM said Ryan won't be moved for futures.

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06-22-2012, 02:58 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by gliff View Post
You are telling me that Schenn+Coturier has move value then Ryan+6th overall??
Yeah. And I'd take Couts and Schenn 10 times out of 9.

Couts is 19 and shuts down Malkin in the playoffs, and he's only going to grow more. Nobody at 6, I'd rather have.

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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Yes it does. There isn't even a consensus top pick. That should tell you this draft isn't that strong. That 6th pick isn't as valuable as you think. Not that valuable to grab Couturier.
Agreed with this 100%.

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06-22-2012, 03:00 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
Irrelevant since our GM said Ryan won't be moved for futures.
Relevant because the question that was asked of me was how it's even debatable that the #6 pick is worth any less then #20, #45 and next year's #1.

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06-22-2012, 03:03 PM
  #159
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Quote:
lisa dillman ‏@reallisa

Meanwhile, Ducks source says all is quiet on the Bobby Ryan front.
https://twitter.com/reallisa/status/216249445443059712


Hope this puts and end to this.

As for the 6th...I doubt we would find a consensus here. Ducks want Schenn, Flyers want a different deal.

I didn't mean to rant before, but I think it is clear we won't find common ground in this one. Ducks want a little overpayment for Ryan, Flyers are hesitant to trade fair value - which is also understandable. Like IMO Fowler + 6th OV gest us 1st OV or at least close to. Still wouldn't do it though.

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06-22-2012, 03:08 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by gliff View Post
You are telling me that Schenn+Couturier has move value then Ryan+6th overall??
To the Flyers they are. I honestly wouldn't do Couturier for Ryan straight up. I am aware that Couturier is a rookie but I'm assuming most Flyers fans would agree with me here. I can understand why Ducks fans wouldn't do it either from their perspective.

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06-22-2012, 03:24 PM
  #161
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Am I to understand Flyers fan wouldn't trade Sean Courturier if it meant getting Bobby Ryan?

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06-22-2012, 03:26 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
Am I to understand Flyers fan wouldn't trade Sean Courturier if it meant getting Bobby Ryan?
Yea. We need Couts IMO more then we need Bobby Ryan. Couts means more to us, he's a solid sized center who can and will shut down Malkin.

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06-22-2012, 03:26 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
Am I to understand Flyers fan wouldn't trade Sean Courturier if it meant getting Bobby Ryan?
Yes.

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06-22-2012, 03:27 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Yea. We need Couts IMO more then we need Bobby Ryan. Couts means more to us, he's a solid sized center who can and will shut down Malkin.
Yea I agree with this. Plus the kid was 18 last year, he has the talent to be a stud offensively as well. These types of players are not the type you trade.

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Old
06-22-2012, 03:27 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Yea. We need Couts IMO more then we need Bobby Ryan. Couts means more to us, he's a solid sized center who can and will shut down Malkin.
Yeah Ryan would be nice but scoring winger isn't really a need for the Flyers. Even with Couturier size/defense down the middle is a problem.

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06-22-2012, 03:28 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
Am I to understand Flyers fan wouldn't trade Sean Courturier if it meant getting Bobby Ryan?
are you serious??? wow

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06-22-2012, 03:28 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
Am I to understand Flyers fan wouldn't trade Sean Courturier if it meant getting Bobby Ryan?
I would never accept that deal from a flyers point of view.

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Old
06-22-2012, 03:29 PM
  #168
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giroux briere couts talbot are really one of the tops groups of centers in the league, 2 scoring lines shutdown and grind lines. thats how winning teams are built. the problem there is bryz/pronger contract

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06-22-2012, 03:31 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by muckbin15 View Post
giroux briere couts talbot are really one of the tops groups of centers in the league, 2 scoring lines shutdown and grind lines. thats how winning teams are built. the problem there is bryz/pronger contract
The Pronger contract will be on LTIR for the next several years. Only Comcast sees that as a problem (financially).

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06-22-2012, 03:32 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Ghost of Dale Hunter View Post
my prediction

Anaheim gets:
Buffalo 1st (12)
Philly 1st
Buffalo 2nd
Sekera

Philly gets
Ryan

Buffalo gets
Anaheim 1st (so they can get Faksa)
JVR
That sure is great for Buffalo and Philly isn't it

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Old
06-22-2012, 03:35 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
Am I to understand Flyers fan wouldn't trade Sean Courturier if it meant getting Bobby Ryan?
Nope. On a team that lacks very savvy defensive forwards and centers. They will not be trading him. His value on the team is more then people understand. Any player that is used to match against the best players in the world at 19 isn't going to be traded at the moment.

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Old
06-22-2012, 03:35 PM
  #172
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That sure is great for Buffalo and Philly isn't it
It is great for Buffalo, fair for Philadelphia, and absolutely awful for the Ducks.

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06-22-2012, 03:36 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
The Pronger contract will be on LTIR for the next several years. Only Comcast sees that as a problem (financially).
Nope, Insurance will be paying out for Prongers contract considering he is injured.

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Old
06-22-2012, 04:34 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
I wouldn't give JvR and a top-10 pick for Ryan (and Schenn is worth much more then then just a pick in the back of the top-10 anyway.

I wouldn't give #20, #45, and next year's #20 for #6 unless gold fell to that spot. I looked through the last few drafts and didn't see anything like a move from 20 to 6 so there's really no precedent to look at.


I'm not claiming to have the only correct opinion, but yeah, it is at the very least debatable.
I probably wouldn't either, but that's fair worth for that pick. You can look at what it costs to move from the 20th to the mid teens, then from the mid teens to the low teens. And then extrapolate what it would take from 12 to 6.

Throwing players into the mix skews everything, I'm just going off what recent trades have said the picks are worth.

Just some food for thought on 1st round trades for picks (not players)


2011 - #22 for #30 + #39
2010 - #15 for #19 + #59
2010 - #22 + #113(4th) for #27 + #57
2010 - #30 for #35 + #58
2009 - #12 + #77(3rd) for #26 + #37 + #62(3rd) + #92(4th)
2009 - #12 for #16 + #77(3rd) + #182(7th)
2009 - #20 for #23 +#84(3rd)
2009 - #21 for #26 + #37
2009 - #29 for #32 + #75(3rd)
2008 - #5 for #7 + 2nd + 3rd
2008 - #7 for #9 + #40
2008 - #12 for #17 + #28
2008 - #12 for #13 + 3rd
2008 - #15 for #18 + 3rd
2008 - #21 for #24 + 3rd
Gave up on the rest of 2008, too many trades
2007 - #16 for #19 + 2nd
2007 - #18 for #24 +3rd
2007 - #21 for #30 + 2nd
2007 - #28 for 2 2nd's


It would be a minimum of 2-3 trades to get from 20 to 10-12, with increasingly higher 2nd's and 3rd's to do so each time, then at least another 2 high 2nd's to get from 10 to 6. I'm pretty sure Philly doesn't have 4-5 2nd's to trade, so it would take another mid-low 1st.

You may not like it, you may not trade it, but that's the worth of Philly's picks based on the recent market.

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