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Jordan Staal traded to Carolina for Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin, 8th overall

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Old
06-22-2012, 09:37 PM
  #1
shureshot66
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Jordan Staal traded to Carolina for Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin, 8th overall

OK. Draft night winding down.

Had a chance to take a deep breath? Maybe a beer or five?

Let's hear it. Whether you love or hate the return, tell us why. Looking forward to some (hopefully) civil discussion.

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06-22-2012, 09:43 PM
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vecens24
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I was at the draft, it was an interesting reaction. People really liked getting Sutter (he is going to be beloved by Penguins fans I think), and the 8th. Then, Bettman announced there was an "and" along with that and the crowd went nuts when they heard it was Dumoulin. It's defintiely a great value deal.

However, unless we get either Parise or Suter, this team is worse next season. Gotta assume Martin goes and one of the youngsters steps in, plus the downgrade from Staal to Sutter. We'll reap the benefits of this deal in two years for sure, but until then unless we get a big free agent, this team is worse in the present. Hopefully it works out for Parise.

And I hope Rossi is wrong as far as trading for Suter's rights, although it wouldn't surprise given the obvious Nashville connection.

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06-22-2012, 09:44 PM
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Darth Vitale
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Don't have to go searching for a good 3C replacement, who can play good defensive hockey as well potting a few? Check.

Good cap hit? Double-check.

Prospect who projects into strong two-way D or physical D role? Check.

#8 Pick? Check.

Like what was done with the pick? Not really but don't hate it either. In the end most people who follow prospects seem like they would've been happy getting Maatta at 8 and Pouliot at 22 (as noted in the other thread), so it worked out, oddly

Do I think it was the best possible deal? Not that I conjur in my infinite HFB wisdom, but the key here is that I didn't hear the other offers and Shero did. So I'll choose to feel good about it because his integrity and no-nonsense approach is beyond questioning for stuff like that. I don't believe Shero would leave a better deal on the table just to make Staal happy. Or if it was better it was only marginally so.

All in all I think Shero had a very good night and that he should hire McGuire as his PR agent. If he hasn't already.

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06-22-2012, 09:47 PM
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66-29-33
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LOVE IT!!! I rather deal Staal NOW then lose him for nothing. Now THAT would be beyond retarded....Awesome return! especially since people were laughing at some of the offers....

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06-22-2012, 09:48 PM
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Illinest
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Seems fine for value but I lost my favorite player.

My brother said it for both of us "I'm so depressed. I loved that tall blonde b@$tard." I laughed but it's also how I feel.

Sutter seems like a fine player and you'd have to be a fool to argue that he's not a capable 3C but he's also completely replaceable. There are tons of Sutters in the league. Jordan Staal has a unique blend of size and skill that - in my opinion - isn't even close to being finished developing.

The other part of the 'fine for a 3C argument' that you need to consider is that we didn't use our 3C like other teams used their 3C. I guarantee that Sid's going to see more defensive zone faceoffs. He'll do fine with them but it's not the role I wanted for Sid.

The run on defensemen is interesting but I think it'll be a few years before we can properly judge the quality of those pieces.

What really kills me is that we need to replace offense now and it seems that everyone wants Parise but I do not want him. I DO NOT WANT PARISE.
First - because I can't hear his name without imagining a sleazy voice saying "it aint easy bein' parise". It pisses me off!
Second - because he's got Paris as part of his name, which is a dirty city in a crap country.


So now I have to get a new Penguins jersey and I have to put the Staal jersey in the back of the closet next to Ben Rapistberger's jersey that I can't wear anymore either.

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06-22-2012, 09:48 PM
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rmartin65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Don't have to go searching for a good 3C replacement, who can play good defensive hockey as well potting a few? Check.

Good cap hit? Double-check.

Prospect who projects into strong two-way D or physical D role? Check.

#8 Pick? Check.

Like what was done with the pick? Not really but don't hate it either. In the end most people who follow prospects seem like they would've been happy getting Maatta at 8 and Pouliot at 22 (as noted in the other thread), so it worked out, oddly

Do I think it was the best possible deal? Not that I conjur in my infinite HFB wisdom, but the key here is that I didn't hear the other offers and Shero did. So I'll choose to feel good about it because his integrity and no-nonsense approach is beyond questioning for stuff like that. I don't believe Shero would leave a better deal on the table just to make Staal happy. Or if it was better it was only marginally so.
Pretty much my thoughts. I like getting Sutter, the 8th, and Dumoulin really fits an organizational need.

But, I am not wild with who we chose. I am not an expert by any means, I just worry that we grabbed yet another smaller D who was described as "shy". I love the Maatta pick though, so all things considered, today was a good day. Hopefully we can grab a scoring winger prospect or two tomorrow.

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06-22-2012, 09:51 PM
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Darth Vitale
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Illinest: if you don't eventually retract your Parise comments, I am going to infract you for retardation.

You DO want Parise on this team. Because he will help bring Cups. He is a BETTER player than Staal and by a wide margin. Yes... yes, my friend... you DO want Parise on this team. He IS the droid we are looking for.

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06-22-2012, 09:57 PM
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Love it, under the circumstances I don't think Shero could of done better. Sutter's contract situation is really, really nice as well, two years at 2 mil, then he is still a RFA afterwards.

Dumoulin is a real strong prospect as well who is likely to be NHL ready by 2013-2014.


Last edited by Sivek: 06-22-2012 at 10:07 PM.
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06-22-2012, 09:59 PM
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Illinest
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Illinest: if you don't eventually retract your Parise comments, I am going to infract you for retardation.

You DO want Parise on this team. Because he will help bring Cups. He is a BETTER player than Staal and by a wide margin. Yes... yes, my friend... you DO want Parise on this team. He IS the droid we are looking for.
In my defense I refuse him on grounds that have nothing to do with his ability to play hockey.

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06-22-2012, 10:00 PM
  #10
Parise9Crosby87
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its parise or ryan

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06-22-2012, 10:01 PM
  #11
Darth Vitale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinest View Post
In my defense I refuse him on grounds that have nothing to do with his ability to play hockey.
Haha. I'll let it slide... for now. Eventually you will see the light (if we're lucky).

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06-22-2012, 10:01 PM
  #12
Jacob
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Sutter was an ideal return in that he can plug into the 3rd line center role and do just as well as Staal has done prior to his offensive awakening this past season, but at a better cap hit and with more of a willingness to play in those kind of defensive situations than Staal has been. I think swapping Staal for Sutter straight up, while certainly a downgrade as a whole, makes us a better defensive hockey team if nothing else, and that's what we need.

And of course the trade will mostly hinge on the development and eventual impact of Pouliot and Dumoulin.

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06-22-2012, 10:03 PM
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SidGenoMario
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Something tells me JordanStaal#1Fan might not be too happy.

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06-22-2012, 10:26 PM
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bathroomSTAAL
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This is more emotional than anything but I ****ing hate it. I ****ing loved Staal, he was one of my favorite players. Sutter is nice, I have no idea who the **** Doumoulier is and don't give a **** about yet another defensive prospect.

Reminds me of the Seinfeld routine - we're just rooting for laundry now. ****ing hate it.

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06-22-2012, 10:26 PM
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vecens24
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Wait Illinest, why does Sid need to take more defensive zone draws? Isn't this kinda the reason we got a guy like Sutter?

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06-22-2012, 10:27 PM
  #16
Le Magnifique 66
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Thanks for everything Jordan

Welcome to Pittsburgh Sutter, Dumoulin, Pouliot and Mattaa

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06-22-2012, 10:28 PM
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66-29-33
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Originally Posted by bathroomSTAAL View Post
This is more emotional than anything but I ****ing hate it. I ****ing loved Staal, he was one of my favorite players. Sutter is nice, I have no idea who the **** Doumoulier is and don't give a **** about yet another defensive prospect.

Reminds me of the Seinfeld routine - we're just rooting for laundry now. ****ing hate it.
You need a few days you get your head in check with these trades. Staal was a KEY member of this teams core, and now he's gone. It's a HUGE trade. After a few days, the feelings will be normal again. After Staal and Michalek gone from here, i need a few days to recover.

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06-22-2012, 10:28 PM
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I think Shero did well considering his leverage was compromised. Not sure how many teams expressed serious interest. But I am sure we will find out at some point.

If Carolina and Rangers were the two main teams with offers I think it shows that his impending UFA status with an agent statement of 'no contract talk wanted till then' really hurt us. The thing those teams had in common was each had a Staal brother on it. With Shero talking to Rangers, maybe Rangers figured 'hey, we got a Staal brother on our team too', it could be a selling point to Jordan. I am sure we will learn about it in the coming days.

Considering the situation, I like our return.


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06-22-2012, 10:28 PM
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eXile59
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Just got back from the draft. I'm happy we did get some value for him considering it look like for a second that Shero was just going to let him walk for nothing. I would have rather had Forsberg with that pick but no on picked after the top three are going to play this year anyways. Also gives us a little bit more wiggle room with the cap. Not a horrible deal but could have gotten more under different circumstances.

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06-22-2012, 10:30 PM
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bathroomSTAAL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
You need a few days you get your head in check with these trades. Staal was a KEY member of this teams core, and now he's gone. It's a HUGE trade. After a few days, the feelings will be normal again. After Staal and Michalek gone from here, i need a few days to recover.
For sure, like I said I'm just really torn up right now.

Have to change my ****ing username again

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06-22-2012, 10:34 PM
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Illinest
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Wait Illinest, why does Sid need to take more defensive zone draws? Isn't this kinda the reason we got a guy like Sutter?
Two reasons:

1. My feeling is that Disco Dan Bylsma may need some time before he trusts Sutter as much as he trusted Staal.

I'm not knocking Sutter's ability to play defense but I'd be shocked if he gets 20 mins a game like Staal did.

2. Sid and Geno both are going to have to play more minutes, and the majority of the Staal minutes started in the defensive zone. Verifiable if needed.

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06-22-2012, 10:39 PM
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I liked the return. Didn't really like the pick but what are you gonna do.

Reaction was pretty positive from the crowd though.

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06-22-2012, 10:41 PM
  #23
jmelm
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Pittsburgh filled one of their biggest organizational needs, as I've said since Gonchard left: an elite, offensive Dman. (I'm not sure either Despres or Morrow is that guy, but we likely have it now in Pouliot & possibly Maatta).


Maatta also adds some size to our left-side, as does Dumoulin, which we need going forward especially with Orpik not getting any younger and possibly on his way out the door...

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06-22-2012, 10:46 PM
  #24
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Hey guys...

Dumoulin's from my hometown, I've watched him closely over the years. He's a solid player and a great kid. Smart too.

I'll be rooting for him!

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06-22-2012, 10:51 PM
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As much as I like Staal, after word leaked about the extension, Shero's hand was forced. I think Shero got a good return for Staal, though I would have rather seen Forsberg @8.
While I think Staal's a star, I don't think the 3 center theory is really viable in the NHL today with the salary cap. A number 3 center who can do what a #3 center needs to do, should not cost as much as Staal. This should leave Shero financial flexibility to upgrade at other areas of need. It would be foolish to spend 6-7m on a third liner.

I know we all love our favorite players and I am still sad we broke up the 91 Pens, but the roster must evolve and become more balanced.

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