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Ryan hopes to be traded to Flyers

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Old
06-22-2012, 11:23 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I'll save this post for the future lol.
Now now maybe something comes along that blows them away, but for now they are building down the middle again. Giroux, Schenn, Couts will be centers here for sometime. With Laughton, Schenn might be converted to a winger. Flyers might see him better fit to play the wing.

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06-22-2012, 11:23 PM
  #77
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Bobby Ryan could be a 50 goal scorer. Even if he isn't that he can score 30. JVR hasn't proved anything.

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06-22-2012, 11:24 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I don't understand the relationship between parts 1 and 2 of your post, on the one hand, and part 3, on the other.
Seems like he is trying to say that he would rather just stay the course with the forwards for now and see how JVR can play on the wing with Giroux next year. But, if we do trade for Ryan, the most he wants to give up is JVR and a pick, not any of the young centers we have

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06-22-2012, 11:30 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
Seems like he is trying to say that he would rather just stay the course with the forwards for now and see how JVR can play on the wing with Giroux next year. But, if we do trade for Ryan, the most he wants to give up is JVR and a pick, not any of the young centers we have
This, thanks for clearing that up

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Old
06-22-2012, 11:30 PM
  #80
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The one thing I worry about with all of this trade talk is that Holmgren might start trading away all of our first round picks again. And then we will have to blow up the core again in a few years, which in my opinion was at least a part of the reason Richards and Carter were traded. We have to have that flow of draft picks to bring into the lineup, especially the first rounders, since we seem to be pretty successful with those selections

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06-22-2012, 11:32 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
Seems like he is trying to say that he would rather just stay the course with the forwards for now and see how JVR can play on the wing with Giroux next year. But, if we do trade for Ryan, the most he wants to give up is JVR and a pick, not any of the young centers we have
Makes sense.

I guess I was a bit surprised, because I don't consider JVR, a 1st, and a 2nd the sort of "lowest possible" deal I was asking about.

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06-22-2012, 11:33 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Cyborg LeClair View Post
This, thanks for clearing that up
I could be wrong, but that was they way I read it. I think most people are on the same page with that as well.

Although if we traded Schenn and not JVR in the package we could have a pretty good offensive core.

Ryan-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Briere-Simmonds/Read
JVR-Courutier-Simmonds/read

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06-22-2012, 11:35 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Now now maybe something comes along that blows them away, but for now they are building down the middle again. Giroux, Schenn, Couts will be centers here for sometime. With Laughton, Schenn might be converted to a winger. Flyers might see him better fit to play the wing.
I don't think I ever advocated for just trading one of our young forwards, but looking at the way this draft shaped up, we should have been the ones trading up with Calgary to number 14 at the cost of 20 and a 2nd (even add in one of our 4ths, if necessary).

At that point, you have Ceci, and TT both sitting there. Both of those players match our core (assuming we are being patient) a lot better than Laughton who will under the best scenario be stuck as a third center. Even that requires that Schenn become a winger (not optimal imo) AND that he waits the 3 years for Briere to retire.

Not moving up for TT will go down as a massive blunder with how this draft played out and how our roster is currently aligned.

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06-22-2012, 11:37 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Makes sense.

I guess I was a bit surprised, because I don't consider JVR, a 1st, and a 2nd the sort of "lowest possible" deal I was asking about.
Yea. The MOST I would probably pay would be JVR and a first. I think JVR and a prospect like cousins might be fair considering all of Ryan's comments recently about wanting to play for the flyers. It seems pretty obvious that he is tired of being trade bait each and every year.

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Old
06-22-2012, 11:41 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I don't think I ever advocated for just trading one of our young forwards, but looking at the way this draft shaped up, we should have been the ones trading up with Calgary to number 14 at the cost of 20 and a 2nd (even add in one of our 4ths, if necessary).

At that point, you have Ceci, and TT both sitting there. Both of those players match our core (assuming we are being patient) a lot better than Laughton who will under the best scenario be stuck as a third center. Even that requires that Schenn become a winger (not optimal imo) AND that he waits the 3 years for Briere to retire.

Not moving up for TT will go down as a massive blunder with how this draft played out and how our roster is currently aligned.
I am not ready to call this draft a blunder. Go back and look at the scouting reports of Richards. Richards was supposed to be a third line center, maybe a 2nd liner if he reaches his max. He ended up being our number 1 while he was here. Giroux, same thing, how are we writing this pick off as a blunder the first round just ended last night. The kid needs time to develop, at least give him that. If we don't he already lost in our eyes then.

And trust me, I was really really pushing TT for the Flyers. I won't hold that against Laughton though.

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06-22-2012, 11:44 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I am not ready to call this draft a blunder. Go back and look at the scouting reports of Richards. Richards was supposed to be a third line center, maybe a 2nd liner if he reaches his max. He ended up being our number 1 while he was here. Giroux, same thing, how are we writing this pick off as a blunder the first round just ended last night. The kid needs time to develop, at least give him that. If we don't he already lost in our eyes then.
We should all wait to say if he is a bust until after he has play a couple full seasons in the NHL, just like any other player. Some people have called Schenn a bust, but he has only played one full season and even then he was injured.

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Old
06-22-2012, 11:46 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
I could be wrong, but that was they way I read it. I think most people are on the same page with that as well.

Although if we traded Schenn and not JVR in the package we could have a pretty good offensive core.

Ryan-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Briere-Simmonds/Read
JVR-Courutier-Simmonds/read
That's true but Schenn is another guy I'd rather not trade as well because I feel like he could really be a big contributor for this team.

I guess what I really want is for us not to trade anything and still get a #1 defenseman

Scratch that, what I really want is for Pronger to be healthy

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Old
06-22-2012, 11:50 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I am not ready to call this draft a blunder. Go back and look at the scouting reports of Richards. Richards was supposed to be a third line center, maybe a 2nd liner if he reaches his max. He ended up being our number 1 while he was here. Giroux, same thing, how are we writing this pick off as a blunder the first round just ended last night. The kid needs time to develop, at least give him that. If we don't he already lost in our eyes then.

And trust me, I was really really pushing TT for the Flyers. I won't hold that against Laughton though.
So, if I highlight players that we took that were projected to be good that haven't been and then mention players that were taken later that are really good is that the counter-argument for Giroux and Richards?

I'm not doubting the Flyers ability to select good forwards. I'm suggesting that even if they are 100% right about Laughton, he's redundant to an 18 year old and 20 year old that we already have on our roster.

We didn't have a horrible draft. We just had one that supposes we'll be trading an asset to make it work, I suppose. It would have been the same thing as drafting Subban is all I'm saying.

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Old
06-23-2012, 12:06 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
So, if I highlight players that we took that were projected to be good that haven't been and then mention players that were taken later that are really good is that the counter-argument for Giroux and Richards?

I'm not doubting the Flyers ability to select good forwards. I'm suggesting that even if they are 100% right about Laughton, he's redundant to an 18 year old and 20 year old that we already have on our roster.

We didn't have a horrible draft. We just had one that supposes we'll be trading an asset to make it work, I suppose. It would have been the same thing as drafting Subban is all I'm saying.
Your problem is expecting things to stay the same. I wanted TT also, but at the same time, the Flyers clearly believed that Laughton was a player worth selecting otherwise they would have selected Maata or traded up for TT when he was falling.

But you're not drafting to construct some mythical, perfect future team. If you project Laughton to be more valuable than TT or Maata or whoever, you take him. You worry about the consequences later because it's always easier to shift things around when you have the talent rather than not having the talent at all.

So while Laughton seems redundant right now in 2012, by 2014 Schenn could be converted to wing, battling injuries, or just plain not developing anymore. Same with Couturier. He may never round out his offensive game. You just dont know.

Sure, Schenn and Laughton could be clones in 3 or 4 years, but if that's the case, you make adjustments and you build your team based on that. You dont try to build your future team before you know the actual value of your assets.


In 2006, we had Richards and Carter on the cusp of breaking out. They were just older than Schenn and Couturier. But we drafted Giroux anyways. We could have traded up to draft Sanguinetti who was dropping, but we didnt. Ivan Vishnevski was projected to be a defenseman that we should have been interested in-- but we drafted the player who the organization projected to be the best even if it may have been redundant.

Now Laughton probably wont develop into a superstar, but questioning a pick simply because he projects to be redundant to what a current roster player projects to be is stupid. You just dont know what will be the case when it comes time to put Laughton in the lineup.

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Old
06-23-2012, 12:09 AM
  #90
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I would love to have Ryan in a Flyers uniform, but I would hate to overpay to have it happen. Especially when we need help on defense not at forward. Sometimes the Flyers scare the crap out of me.

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06-23-2012, 12:11 AM
  #91
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I just read that article written by Randy Miller, and wow there is some compelling statements in there. I would never expect a player to say the things he did. He clearly is frustrated with management and wants to move on. Will be fun watching this saga play out.


Last edited by Prongo: 06-23-2012 at 12:14 AM. Reason: Lol called him Randy Jones
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06-23-2012, 12:12 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg LeClair View Post
That's true but Schenn is another guy I'd rather not trade as well because I feel like he could really be a big contributor for this team.

I guess what I really want is for us not to trade anything and still get a #1 defenseman

Scratch that, what I really want is for Pronger to be healthy
I really don't want to trade anyone one the roster at the moment. There are really only about 3 roster spots that need to be filled. The important one is the defenseman.

JVR-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Briere
Read-Courturier-Simmonds
Wellwood-FA-Talbot
Shelley or Rinaldo(hopefully not Shelley)

Coburn-Grossman
Timonen-Meszaros
Gus-(FA or trade)

Bryz
(FA,Prospect, or trade)


Visnovsky from Anaheim would have been a pretty good deal to fill that d-man spot. But the other two should be pretty easy to find

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06-23-2012, 01:13 AM
  #93
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Voracek + a non-roster future in the most I would part with. That might seem like a low-ball offer, but I don't think the Flyers ought to overpay for pricey veterans on other teams when they have already established a great young core that is fully capable of improving from within.

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06-23-2012, 01:42 AM
  #94
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to get a player like Ryan you have to give up a player you may not want to part with. Would I trade JVR for him? absolutely. It sounds like Schenn is a player the Ducks would want in return. JVR or Schenn as the centerpiece is a deal I would do. I wouldnt deal both of them for Ryan.
Sure there is the argument that JVR could end up being the player that Ryan is. key word could. Ryan is the more rounded player then JVR and for only 850k more.
I would make the deal.

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06-23-2012, 01:53 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg LeClair View Post
I just want to see JVR play the full season next year. I really believe he's ready to take his game to the next level

I'd love Ryan if he came here but imo it's not worth trading JVR for him when JVR could turn into a player like Ryan or better.

Most I'd offer is JVR and a 1st or 2nd rounder
This is pretty much exactly where I'm at. Let the forward group come together. Give them some time damn it. Just get your D-man and chill the **** out.

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06-23-2012, 03:27 AM
  #96
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I feel like if this was going to happen, it would have happened today.

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06-23-2012, 03:49 AM
  #97
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Can someone give me an honest reason as to why they would trade for Ryan, other than making a spectacular move?

What would be the point.

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06-23-2012, 07:12 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Can someone give me an honest reason as to why they would trade for Ryan, other than making a spectacular move?

What would be the point.
To make the team better.

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06-23-2012, 07:57 AM
  #99
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If the price is JvR and picks, Id be ok with it, simply because I love Bobby Ryan and want him here, if the price is right. Getting Ryan without losing Schenn/Coots will be more than worth it, and the more this plays out, the lower the asking price, the more i feel JvR/picks becomes their best option.


No offense to JvR either, hes had horrible luck here, and maybe like Carter a change of scenery will wake him up and kick start his career. Either way Id be happy, I love JvR and think hes gonna develop into a good player, but I just flat like Ryan more. Theres no true hockey rationale, hes from my home town, loves my home town team, plays a sick game, hes young, and he could be Giroux's wingman for years. Im all for it

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06-23-2012, 08:05 AM
  #100
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To make the team better.
On paper it might, depending on what we would give up to get him. Why trade for him though? Are we trying to score 350 goals next year?

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