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Derrick Pouliot | Defenseman | Portland (WHL) | 1st Round, 8th overall

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06-23-2012, 06:29 AM
  #101
jmelm
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
This thread smacks of when people freaked out when we took Despres instead of Ferraro, Morrow instead of Puempel, and Harrington instead of pretty much anybody else. Some will never learn to trust the front office and scouting staff.
Agreed. Even if he only turns into another "Goligoski", we've needed a Goligoski ever since we moved him. And just like Alex, he will have time to develop.

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06-23-2012, 06:36 AM
  #102
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I'm not so heart broken about Forsberg because I think one dominating performance in a tournament put him where he was in the rankings. Statistically, I don't think he's all that impressive.

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06-23-2012, 06:37 AM
  #103
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No way, Jonsson was like Lidstrom-lite. Brilliant hockey sense and silky smooth. Maatta has you thinking that way one minute, and then he'll make a blatantly obvious turnover. It's just that his passes so often get picked off, and he makes some predictably bad plays, so he's a bit of a high-risk player in that regard. Think 'Geno' when he's not focused and making dumb plays.

If Maatta can become more steady and make better, instinctual decisions and better reads on the ice, then we have a gem. It's just a matter of whether these things will come with developing good habbits with practice, or if he is just going to be a guy who always has those brain farts.

Again, given how highly he was thought of by some or in some areas of his game, there is a clear reason why he fell and why he wasn't very high on some people's lists (i.e. Button's, other teams picking before us). He was a very fair gamble at #22, but I would have been very unhappy with him at #8.
Yeah I've noticed those give aways too. I'm actually hoping he becomes more of a defensive defenseman that can make the defensive play and turn it up ice. Kind of like a Paul Martin that doesn't have wet rag-itus.

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06-23-2012, 06:51 AM
  #104
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I'm not so heart broken about Forsberg because I think one dominating performance in a tournament put him where he was in the rankings. Statistically, I don't think he's all that impressive.
I wanted Forsberg but have to agree, his statistical performance last season was less than impressive compared to other picks who were playing in their nation's elite league, like Hertl and Teravainen. He had a great WJC but so have other players in recent years who have done nothing.

I think Forsberg will be a bust but would have liked for Shero to throw a pick at him anyway.

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06-23-2012, 06:56 AM
  #105
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I think what gets lost is what Shero did last night.

He trades for Brandon Sutter who is on a great, great deal, and is a player that still has some room to grow. He's really emerging as one of the better two-way centers in the game. He's also a RFA after this deal is up for him, so that means Ray controls this situation.

Ray added 3 prospects who many would call blue chippers. People can get upset that we didn't draft forwards, but what if Shero signs Sid and Geno long term, signs Parise, and has Neal? I mean, we have the prospects in the system already to fill out that top 6, if they develop, meanwhile, there will be much more turnover on the blueline in the next 10 years, than the top 6, IMO.

He also cleared up serious cap room to retool this team in free agency.

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06-23-2012, 07:32 AM
  #106
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Agreed. Even if he only turns into another "Goligoski", we've needed a Goligoski ever since we moved him. And just like Alex, he will have time to develop.
No, we haven't. Ever since hes left we've needed a big physical defender, not another puck mover. We already have an Alex who's similar offensively to our old Alex.

When are ya'll going to realize our d corps started going down hill the year we traded for Leopold and the org became obsessed with possession dmen. We've become nothing but softer and weaker to play against since then, and we've had 3 embarrassing playoff exits since. The most recent of which our d was dismantled in. Its almost like bylsma is getting his way with the dman over sheros original "tough to play against" model.

And thats my main beef. When Shero first came I loved him because his whole montra was being difficult to play against physically. Guys like gill and McKee were what he wanted to add. Now its guys like leopold, martin, and yandle, apparently.

WE need to get back to the old model. Look no further than all the most recent cup champs going back to Anaheim before us. Ana, Det, us, chi, bos, and la all were physically dominant in their clinching series, and throughout most of their post season runs. That's absolutely no coincidence.


And I just thought of this, but part of our playoff problem could have to do with the fact that as playoff games get tighter and have more mucked up with clutching n grabbing it neutralizes the 2way ability of a lot of dmen who aren't strong enough to fight through the checks.


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06-23-2012, 07:45 AM
  #107
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No, we haven't. Ever since hes left we've needed a big physical defender, not another puck mover. We already have an Alex who's similar offensively to our old Alex.

When are ya'll going to realize our d corps started going down hill the year we traded for Leopold and the org became obsessed with possession dmen. We've become nothing but softer and weaker to play against since then, and we've had 3 embarrassing playoff exits since. The most recent of which our d was dismantled in. Its almost like bylsma is getting his way with the dman over sheros original "tough to play against" model.

And thats my main beef. When Shero first came I loved him because his whole montra was being difficult to play against physically. Guys like gill and McKee were what he wanted to add. Now its guys like leopold, martin, and yandle, apparently.

WE need to get back to the old model. Look no further than all the most recent cup champs going back to Anaheim before us. Ana, Det, us, chi, bos, and la all were physically dominant in their clinching series, and throughout most of their post season runs. That's absolutely no coincidence.


And I just thought of this, but part of our playoff problem could have to do with the fact that as playoff games get tighter and have more mucked up with clutching n grabbing it neutralizes the 2way ability of a lot of dmen who aren't strong enough to fight through the checks.
100% agree. Its cool to have 1 or 2 of those guys but not a whole roster of them. It's a losing formula and they just don't seem to get it. Small and weak does not win in this league

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06-23-2012, 08:03 AM
  #108
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100% agree. Its cool to have 1 or 2 of those guys but not a whole roster of them. It's a losing formula and they just don't seem to get it. Small and weak does not win in this league
Is James Neal small and weak? Because we traded our asset Goligoski to get him.

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06-23-2012, 08:15 AM
  #109
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100% agree. Its cool to have 1 or 2 of those guys but not a whole roster of them. It's a losing formula and they just don't seem to get it. Small and weak does not win in this league
The best player in the world is generously listed at 5'11". I'll wait a few years before I judge this pick.

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06-23-2012, 08:23 AM
  #110
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OK, ive slept some steam off now after we picked poulliot. Im now only angry, not completely mad... Thing is im not even angry we went defenseman @ 8. Im all for picking BPA. But there were at least 2-3 better D on the board wich we didnt take. I think poulliiot is just a clone of morrow tbh. Would have done flips from the sofa if we could have grabbed Ceci. Another thing im wondering is why we didnt try to:

1. trade down with our 8 pick
or
2. trade up with our 22nd pick

Poulliot would defenitly have been there in the early-mid tens (if not late tens).

As usual, im hoping i get this post showed up somewhere in a a couple of years proving me wrong

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06-23-2012, 08:30 AM
  #111
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That's fine and you very well could be right. I just don't like the idea of drafting a player just to trade him later to fill a hole, which this feels like. Especially with a right handed winger with huge upside still on the board, which is a definite hole in this org.

Pens have sick D depth and almost no O depth. Drafting Forsberg would help the org more than Pouliot will, IMO.
We have no idea who gets traded. Maybe DP makes Despres or Morrow expendable and they are part of a deal for a legit winger.

If you honestly watched both players extensively and don't like the DP pick, ok cool. If you are ranting because of things you read and wanted the Pens to draft based on an org weakness, I again say look at the big picture.

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Originally Posted by KeepitinPitt View Post
Okay so you pretty much just wanted us to stockpile more D. So would you have been upset if they drafted Forsberg instead of Pouliot and if so wouldn't that make you a whiner? I don't totally disagree with what you're saying but I also don't see how you can dismiss everyone that wanted Forsberg (or any of the top forward prospects available) as being "whiners" either. I agree with Ragamuffin, the Pens are thin when it comes to forward prospects and we both wanted them to address the issue at the draft. You obviously think differently and that's cool but why not lay off the whole "if you don't agree with the pick, you're a crybaby" routine. I'd say you have a pretty good point, D is valuable but legit top 6 wingers don't grow on trees either. It would be nice to have some in our system. That's all people are trying to say really.
Good luck ever finding one post where I whine about who the Pens have picked in the past and I watch more of these prospects than your avg poster on here.

People whine like this every year and despite how you want to spin it, it is indeed whining.

As TD said, Groundhogs Day

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06-23-2012, 08:42 AM
  #112
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I think what gets lost is what Shero did last night.

He trades for Brandon Sutter who is on a great, great deal, and is a player that still has some room to grow. He's really emerging as one of the better two-way centers in the game. He's also a RFA after this deal is up for him, so that means Ray controls this situation.

Ray added 3 prospects who many would call blue chippers. People can get upset that we didn't draft forwards, but what if Shero signs Sid and Geno long term, signs Parise, and has Neal? I mean, we have the prospects in the system already to fill out that top 6, if they develop, meanwhile, there will be much more turnover on the blueline in the next 10 years, than the top 6, IMO.

He also cleared up serious cap room to retool this team in free agency.
I think that gets lost amidst discussion about the trade.

Pierre alluded to Shero going after Parise. I don't think Shero will target him specifically, but I do think he'll do something significant. He has a fair amount of room after dealing Staal and Michalek (8 mill per season), and taking very little (2 mill) back in salary.

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06-23-2012, 09:59 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Is James Neal small and weak? Because we traded our asset Goligoski to get him.
When did neal switcch to defense?

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06-23-2012, 10:09 AM
  #114
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When did neal switcch to defense?
You seem to be missing the point. The draft is used to collect the best possible assets. Those assets can then be used to shore up other areas - including big power forwards who go on to score 40 goals, 80 points, and make the First All-Star Team.

Never mind the fact that 2 of the 3 major defense prospects we picked up yesterday were 6'2" and 6'4", and nobody classified either of them as soft or weak.

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06-23-2012, 10:19 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
You seem to be missing the point. The draft is used to collect the best possible assets. Those assets can then be used to shore up other areas - including big power forwards who go on to score 40 goals, 80 points, and make the First All-Star Team.

Never mind the fact that 2 of the 3 major defense prospects we picked up yesterday were 6'2" and 6'4", and nobody classified either of them as soft or weak.
I get what you're saying. But, the only way those players can become 'assets', is if they're showcased in some way for other teams to see. How is that going to happen? Should we unload Orpik, Martin, and Niks, and go with essentially 4 rookies in the lineup? Will those guys play in the minors for a few years before they come up and play? If so fine, but they aren't fetching a solid NHL-caliber winger anytime soon. So what is the real value of having a ton of good prospects in the minors, especially when you're supposedly a SC contender/favorite NOW.

That being said, if we bring in Parise and Suter, then it'll make a bit of sense. I would have just much rather drafted Forsberg and a physical d'man.

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06-23-2012, 10:28 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
I get what you're saying. But, the only way those players can become 'assets', is if they're showcased in some way for other teams to see. How is that going to happen? Should we unload Orpik, Martin, and Niks, and go with essentially 4 rookies in the lineup? Will those guys play in the minors for a few years before they come up and play? If so fine, but they aren't fetching a solid NHL-caliber winger anytime soon. So what is the real value of having a ton of good prospects in the minors, especially when you're supposedly a SC contender/favorite NOW.

That being said, if we bring in Parise and Suter, then it'll make a bit of sense. I would have just much rather drafted Forsberg and a physical d'man.
None of these defensemen are being drafted to play in the league right now. None. They are being drafted to be value assets who can potentially help the team years down the road, either as roster players or trade bait.

I liked the potential for Forsberg too, considering his consensus top 5 ranking and how well he fit our needs (skilled RH winger), but the Pens obviously felt differently. We'll see if that was the right decision...given how Shero traded Whitney for Kunitz and Tangradi and Goligoski for Neal, and how we took Despres over Ferraro in '09 and Harrington over a bunch of other sexier picks in '11, I'd say we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

For the record, Forsberg isn't even projected to come over for another year at the very earliest because he's committed to Sweden for next season.

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06-23-2012, 10:32 AM
  #117
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OK, ive slept some steam off now after we picked poulliot. Im now only angry, not completely mad... Thing is im not even angry we went defenseman @ 8. Im all for picking BPA. But there were at least 2-3 better D on the board wich we didnt take. I think poulliiot is just a clone of morrow tbh. Would have done flips from the sofa if we could have grabbed Ceci. Another thing im wondering is why we didnt try to:

1. trade down with our 8 pick
or
2. trade up with our 22nd pick

Poulliot would defenitly have been there in the early-mid tens (if not late tens).

As usual, im hoping i get this post showed up somewhere in a a couple of years proving me wrong
he was a rising prospect. im sure many teams had him in their top 12 at least. 8th is not as much of a reach as people think.

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06-23-2012, 10:33 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
None of these defensemen are being drafted to play in the league right now. None. They are being drafted to be value assets who can potentially help the team years down the road, either as roster players or trade bait.

I liked the potential for Forsberg too, considering his consensus top 5 ranking and how well he fit our needs (skilled RH winger), but the Pens obviously felt differently. We'll see if that was the right decision...given how Shero traded Whitney for Kunitz and Tangradi and Goligoski for Neal, and how we took Despres over Ferraro in '09 and Harrington over a bunch of other sexier picks in '11, I'd say we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

For the record, Forsberg isn't even projected to come over for another year at the very earliest because he's committed to Sweden for next season.
I agree with you. But I'm trying to figure out WTF we are doing to improve NOW. And thus far, the answer is nothing. Are we in full out rebuilding mode? We've basically traded Staal and Z for a run of the mill 3rd line center and a bunch of defensive prospects. I would have hoped one of those trades/picks would have brought a winger, or at least a wing prospect.

I guess I"ll grudgingly accept the fact that Shero MAY know a tad more than I do. lol. But I'm just not getting it, yet.

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06-23-2012, 10:36 AM
  #119
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I agree with you. But I'm trying to figure out WTF we are doing to improve NOW. And thus far, the answer is nothing. Are we in full out rebuilding mode? We've basically traded Staal and Z for a run of the mill 3rd line center and a bunch of defensive prospects. I would have hoped one of those trades/picks would have brought a winger, or at least a wing prospect.

I guess I"ll grudgingly accept the fact that Shero MAY know a tad more than I do. lol. But I'm just not getting it, yet.
say this again on july 1st. until then yes; you dont get it.

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06-23-2012, 11:07 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
I agree with you. But I'm trying to figure out WTF we are doing to improve NOW. And thus far, the answer is nothing. Are we in full out rebuilding mode? We've basically traded Staal and Z for a run of the mill 3rd line center and a bunch of defensive prospects. I would have hoped one of those trades/picks would have brought a winger, or at least a wing prospect.

I guess I"ll grudgingly accept the fact that Shero MAY know a tad more than I do. lol. But I'm just not getting it, yet.
Patience. Free agency hasn't even started yet, and by most accounts, Shero is trying to get a jump start on it and land an impact player.

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06-23-2012, 11:21 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
I agree with you. But I'm trying to figure out WTF we are doing to improve NOW. And thus far, the answer is nothing. Are we in full out rebuilding mode? We've basically traded Staal and Z for a run of the mill 3rd line center and a bunch of defensive prospects. I would have hoped one of those trades/picks would have brought a winger, or at least a wing prospect.

I guess I"ll grudgingly accept the fact that Shero MAY know a tad more than I do. lol. But I'm just not getting it, yet.
Dude, it's June.

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06-23-2012, 11:31 AM
  #122
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Everyone keeps bringing up Despres, Morrow, and Harrington....have they accomplished anything at the pro level yet? Only Despres has even skated a shift in the NHL, and sure he looked good, but he has yet to see any real quality competition at the pro level. While Morrow and Harrington may be making splashes in their respective leagues they are still just prospects. Let's wait to see what they become at the pro level before we use them as a defense to the organizations drafting abilities.

Maybe I am one of few fans soured by yesterdays moves. Michalek moved before Martin? Staal gone, moving up to make a reach pick...a pick which was supposedly going to fall to our original draft spot? For what? Do we really think we have a shot at one of Parise, Suter, or Ryan?

Watching the draft now and they are interviewing Bylsma. He said they were very high on Pouliot, and may not be done making moves.

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06-23-2012, 11:35 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by StaalForOne View Post
Everyone keeps bringing up Despres, Morrow, and Harrington....have they accomplished anything at the pro level yet? Only Despres has even skated a shift in the NHL, and sure he looked good, but he has yet to see any real quality competition at the pro level. While Morrow and Harrington may be making splashes in their respective leagues they are still just prospects. Let's wait to see what they become at the pro level before we use them as a defense to the organizations drafting abilities.

Maybe I am one of few fans soured by yesterdays moves. Michalek moved before Martin? Staal gone, moving up to make a reach pick...a pick which was supposedly going to fall to our original draft spot? For what? Do we really think we have a shot at one of Parise, Suter, or Ryan?

Watching the draft now and they are interviewing Bylsma. He said they were very high on Pouliot, and may not be done making moves.
so far they look like they will be NHL players. i dont see anything in their games that suggest otherwise. i can only assume NHL execs see the same thing.

Why would you be sour? michalek didnt fit. we cleared cap room. Staal was fantastic but we gained cap room and beast prospects and a more than adequate ideal 3rd liner.

we absolutely have a shot at Parise. and Ryan. maybe not Suter.

The only main question you should be asking is what do we do with the D?

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06-23-2012, 11:51 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
so far they look like they will be NHL players. i dont see anything in their games that suggest otherwise. i can only assume NHL execs see the same thing.

Why would you be sour? michalek didnt fit. we cleared cap room. Staal was fantastic but we gained cap room and beast prospects and a more than adequate ideal 3rd liner.

we absolutely have a shot at Parise. and Ryan. maybe not Suter.

The only main question you should be asking is what do we do with the D?
I am glad we got something for Staal since it seemed his days were unfortunately numbered anyway. Seems to me like Shero just took the first decent offer he could get for one of Martin/Michalek. (Which I'm sure isn't actually the case) I just think it makes more sense to dish Martin. He makes more money, and I like Michaleks game better. I'm not unsure we could have gotten more for Staal either.

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06-23-2012, 11:55 AM
  #125
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I am glad we got something for Staal since it seemed his days were unfortunately numbered anyway. Seems to me like Shero just took the first decent offer he could get for one of Martin/Michalek. (Which I'm sure isn't actually the case) I just think it makes more sense to dish Martin. He makes more money, and I like Michaleks game better. I'm not unsure we could have gotten more for Staal either.
you've been playing too much NHL12. we got plenty for staal.
michalek was a cap dump. doesnt matter what we got back. Matrin is impossible to move with his clauses and weak play. we're stuck with him for a bit. all we can do is hope he trains his ass off and comes to play next season.

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