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Did Katz overrule the Oil brass?

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06-23-2012, 04:05 AM
  #51
oilwings
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Might that mean that his kids are smarter than the men that he pays millions of dollars to manage the team if they didn't want Nail?

I'm just happy that we got Nail, how it got to that point doesn't really matter anymore.
Exactly. The Oilers were given a gift from the Hockey Gods.

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06-23-2012, 04:11 AM
  #52
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Like I had posted in the "Tambo Re-signed" thread:

I think if/when we choose Yak, all the pessimist/"negative nancys" here will believe that:
a) Tambo was forced by higher-ups to pick Yakupov
b) Tambo was incapacitated (due to alcohol, drugs, stroke etc.) and was not his normal self
c) Tambo went up to the podium and mistakenly said Nail Yakupov instead of Murray (D'oh!)
d) Tambo went through HF boards and read every post (as he does everyday before going to sleep), which caused him to have a change of heart
e) Tambo must have been replaced by someone or something (ex. clone,twin,cyborg)


I guess a) has come true already. Everyone needs too relax. All i know is, Tambo looked pretty excited and happy has he went up to the stage

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06-23-2012, 04:22 AM
  #53
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Base on the videos that i saw, i thought Stu Macgregor was kinda uncomfortable and did not answer the questions with confidence. He answered some of the questions with a dull face, looking up,a sigh of air while answering. Anyways to the question, Do i think Katz forced them to draft Yak? No

I do agree with OP that Stu was in the minority of drafting Murray or Reinhart.

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06-23-2012, 04:31 AM
  #54
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this may be true if stu resigns or something, remember if it happens.

but when tsn interviewed tambo, he seemed pretty confident that yak was numba 1

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06-23-2012, 04:45 AM
  #55
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RNH didn't seemed thrilled at all with the pick..
after they asked him what he thought of passing the puck to Yakupov, or somethin like that, he responded "yeah it we would be great passing to him..or anybody"
Not the exact quote..
He just seemed irritated, kid needs to loosen up, we got prospects with similar skillsets to Murray(maybe not character)
Setting up Yakupov is a playmakers dream..

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06-23-2012, 07:05 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers2k10 View Post
RNH didn't seemed thrilled at all with the pick..
after they asked him what he thought of passing the puck to Yakupov, or somethin like that, he responded "yeah it we would be great passing to him..or anybody"
Not the exact quote..
He just seemed irritated, kid needs to loosen up, we got prospects with similar skillsets to Murray(maybe not character)
Setting up Yakupov is a playmakers dream..
I think it's just RNH's 'thing'. He never really sounds excited about anything.
Maybe he also didn't want to sound too bias so that people would have coloured him disappointed or frustrated if they had taken a defenceman instead.

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06-23-2012, 08:08 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I don't think the OP is reading too much into it at all.
There appeared to be a lot of uncomfortable feelings at the Oilers table before they went up to the stage and Tambo seemed very uneasy the whole time, it was pretty unsettling to watch actually.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter because they made the right pick but i bet that there was some dissention in the room leading up to the minutes immediately before the draft.
It probably has something to do with waiting for the whole ordeal to be done. As well as maybe waiting for a last minute call back that may or may not have been a possibility. Its common knowledge that the scouts didn't even know who was to be drafted, so it was close, but I don't think there is any dissention in the ranks.

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Old
06-23-2012, 08:34 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers2k10 View Post
RNH didn't seemed thrilled at all with the pick..
after they asked him what he thought of passing the puck to Yakupov, or somethin like that, he responded "yeah it we would be great passing to him..or anybody"
Not the exact quote..
He just seemed irritated, kid needs to loosen up, we got prospects with similar skillsets to Murray(maybe not character)
Setting up Yakupov is a playmakers dream..
RNH wanted Murray they roomed together at the World Championship and became fast friends. I'm sure far as Nuge is concerned he already has his linemates in Hall and Eberle what's he need this Russian guy for. What Yakupov will help is our scoring depth and pairing him with Gagner or Hemsky or both will hopefully lead to some great statistical seasons for Hemsky and/or Gagner

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06-23-2012, 08:39 AM
  #59
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I'm sure at least one rational person has said it.... But this is all f n priceless.

For weeks we've been hearing how incompetent our mgmt team is "because I read from so and so that they might take x"

Now, for the third year in a row they took the guy we wanted, and moreover MANAGED a very tight ship, not leaking it to anyone.

Now the implication is that they didn't even make the decision, it was their boss!?

Unbelievable.

Just admit it.... Many of you were wrong about mgmt on this issue

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06-23-2012, 08:41 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Boom4 View Post
Base on the videos that i saw, i thought Stu Macgregor was kinda uncomfortable and did not answer the questions with confidence. He answered some of the questions with a dull face, looking up,a sigh of air while answering. Anyways to the question, Do i think Katz forced them to draft Yak? No

I do agree with OP that Stu was in the minority of drafting Murray or Reinhart.
I disagree. I think some of you are looking for something that isn't there. He doesn't have the same twinkle in his eyes that he did in 2010 but I think it has less to do with Yakupov and more to do with drafting 1st overall just not being as exciting after 3 straight years.

Here he is talking about RNH last year. Very similar mannerisms. I think that's just him.
http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocen...sole?id=119469

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06-23-2012, 08:44 AM
  #61
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Tambo was definitely uncomfortable.

Also count me into the group that Montreal made a pitch for #1 in a package likely including Subban.

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06-23-2012, 08:45 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
I'm sure at least one rational person has said it.... But this is all f n priceless.

For weeks we've been hearing how incompetent our mgmt team is "because I read from so and so that they might take x"

Now, for the third year in a row they took the guy we wanted, and moreover MANAGED a very tight ship, not leaking it to anyone.

Now the implication is that they didn't even make the decision, it was their boss!?

Unbelievable.

Just admit it.... Many of you were wrong about mgmt on this issue
And by the way, this is called "errors of attribution" and it is often referred to by psychologists to describe the way conspiracy theorists and other wackos twist facts that are inconguent with their theories.

Just sayin'

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Old
06-23-2012, 09:42 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Slatsmsg View Post
It seems to me by the tone of your comments, and of course without hearing the inflection in your voice, that you feel the Oilers made a mistake in not drafting Murray.

Historically speaking, and if I need to present examples I will, defencemen taking a longer time to make a positive impact than forwards do. Further, Yakupov was the consensus BPA and, when there is a clear cut, you have to make that call or trade down if the BPA is not what your current needs are.

Looking at the Oilers prospects on D, and given that they have had some rime to develop of the last 1-3 years, the influx of talented young D men has begun (insert Petry) and will grow rapidly with adds like Klefbom. The Oilers D may be lacking today but Murray would not have been able to impact the team the way Yakupov can today.
Many times Tambo speaks of his players as assets and, again today, he added another significant asset. This add allows the Oil to move one of the top 4, if the appetite is indeed there, to add that elite defencemen that has already established himself and that we don't have to wait forever to realize.
Lastly, we still don't have a coach and I believe that speaks volumes. The Oilers need to get that decision right. The next coach needs to be able to work with the young guns and put into place a system that accentuates the talent of the players they have accumulated. He needs to have the proper posture to hold them accountable yet garner their respect. A good coach does wonders to a group, Hitchcock, Darryl Sutter as prime examples.

While frustrating for the fan base, a wholesale rebuild takes time and I believe we are close. It wasn't that long ago when Horcoff was the number one center.

A couple of key free agent adds with some grit to stand up for the young guys (I saw a thread for Ott and thought that he was a great fit) and one or two D men, coupled with a good coach and I see this team pushing for a playoff spot.

Just my 2 cents. As for the OP, if Katz did over rule the hockey ops people, good on him. The right decision was made today.
Actually I completely agree with your post except for the last sentence and the coaching to a lesser degree. With the 2012 pick my players of choice were Galchenyk and Yakapov. This team needs defencemen that will help the team immediately...not in 5 years. I also agree about the need for grit. I have been pounding the dman and grit drum for 3 years now. Still waiting for Tambo to figure this out and actually do something of value.
Maybe he has learned from his mistakes and this year is finally the year. Doubtful but it might happen.

As for the OP and a possible Katz over rule....right decision or not it lends itself more to failure than success when a non hockey person starts making player acquisition decisions.

Regarding the coaching...a coach does matter but Hitchcock and Sutter had balanced rosters to work with. Renney had a junk defence, below average goaltending and a small soft forward group to work with. No system is going to resolve that...too many holes in the roster.

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Old
06-23-2012, 09:55 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Everyone makes mistakes. As such, letting people who understand how to perform a function, perform a function with no oversight is a sure way to fail.
When mistakes become a pattern then it becomes cause for concern. This management group (while great at making the obvious #1 pick) is very poor at evaluating the roster and resolving the issues. A pattern has evolved and the potential reasons are less than flattering. Either its incompetence or involvement from the owner. Both are extremely problematic IMO.

Quote:
Additionally, when an issue is this significant, there are larger issues at play. Issues that you can't reasonably expect a group of people with a circle of competence limited to the evaluation of young hockey players to fully consider.

For the sake of argument, let's say the Oilers' scouting staff was right and 3 years down the road Ryan Murray is a Norris Trophy Candidate playing for the Blue Jackets and Nail Yakupov is a second line, 70 point winger playing for the Oilers. You'd likely argue, at this point, that the Oilers made a mistake in taking Yakupov over Murray but you'd be wrong. The world isn't that linear.
Of course the world isn't linear and this isn't about which player got chosen as much as it is about the process you are presenting. They picked the best player (right now) which is exactly what they should have done. That aside your comment about winning Norris 3 years down the road is highly unlikely consider that Murray is an offensively challenged dman. Offense doesn't get easier when the competition gets better.

Quote:
Given that the rest of the hockey world rated Yakupov higher than Murray, had the Oilers taken Murray first overall, some, if not all, of the following would have happened:

1) The organizations who were in discussions with the Oilers to trade the pick would come to believe that the Oilers won't call their bluff in negotiations, seriously degrading the Oilers' ability to make future deals.
2) Murray fails to reach his full potential as an Oiler because the extreme pressure of being an unpopular pick coupled with the normal development time for a defenseman poisoned his ability to flourish here.
3) The relationship between the team and its fans is strained creating a toxic environment for everyone.
4) A number of unforeseen roster changes come to pass making the 70 point winger more valuable than the Norris Trophy winning defenseman

Katz has given no indication that he is interested in becoming as involved in the day to day operations of the club as Ballard was for the Leafs. And I agree with you that if he wants his team to be successful he should leave nearly all of the hockey decisions to the hockey people. However, this particular situation was unique, his hockey people waded into an area that could have caused irreparable harm to his franchise and as a self-made billionaire with a law degree he was almost certainly the most qualified person in the room to consider the wider ramifications and tell them they were off base.
I will borrow a line from a previous post....right decision or not it lends itself more to failure than success when a non hockey person starts making player acquisition decisions. This should never happen if the people running the show are competent hockey people.

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Old
06-23-2012, 10:06 AM
  #65
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I believe it's possible, I think Lowe was pulling hardest for Murray. One of Matheson's tweets yesterday alluded to this being a possibility.

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06-23-2012, 10:35 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by czar99 View Post
Go re watch the hall and rnh draft and compare it to this one and you can clearly see tambo is not excited with his choice. Especially the way those guys are patting him on the back before the pic. It was also suggested in the Armageddon thread that he might of nicksed a trade that he was struggling with. What Ever it was he looked really uncomfortable.
It wasn't necessarily that Tambo was uncomfortable about the pick.

Maybe it was the 2 beef n bean burritos he had for lunch saying "Hey Senor, we want to leave right away. Open the door pronto, por favor!"

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06-23-2012, 11:11 AM
  #67
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You guys are paranoid, all the interviews I've heard including stu right now on ched seems pretty normal. Loves nails attitude, compares his attitude to Taylor hall. Passion and drive

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06-23-2012, 11:20 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by awesomo View Post
You guys are paranoid, all the interviews I've heard including stu right now on ched seems pretty normal. Loves nails attitude, compares his attitude to Taylor hall. Passion and drive
I would have to agree. Stu actually seemed pretty happy and Tambo seemed downright giddy in his interview, i'm not sure what some of you are talking about.

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06-23-2012, 11:23 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I would have to agree. Stu actually seemed pretty happy and Tambo seemed downright giddy in his interview, i'm not sure what some of you are talking about.
Overreacting on HFoil? Never.

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06-23-2012, 11:41 AM
  #70
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maybe just after a long week of deciding who to pick, they were all just drained and tired. I agree, from interviews i heard today, tambo and stu seem excited.

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Old
06-23-2012, 11:54 AM
  #71
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Slight discomfort only because Tambellini was waiting for a potential trade call on the first overll pick. That is all. He wasn't doubtful in his first selection IMO. He had a silk screened jersey in Stus hands with Yaks name on it. He just wanted to be sure that whoever was bidding for our pick didnt throw an offer to knock his socks off prior to approaching the podium. It was a very Hitchcock as in Alfred like move.

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Old
06-23-2012, 12:10 PM
  #72
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who cares if stu is uncomfortable. yakupov is an oiler now *****essss

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06-23-2012, 03:11 PM
  #73
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The selection of Yakupov does go against the grain. Tambellini is the first guy to pull out those cliche's he prides himself in.

Seeking kids with admirable character traits.
Beleives in what the Oilers are doing.
Wants to be apart of the Edmonton Oilers hockey club.

All indicators point towards Ryan Murray being the Oilers unanimous choice yesterday, not Nail Yakupov. Everytime Yakupov's up for renewal now he'll probably wield that KHL hammer.

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06-23-2012, 03:17 PM
  #74
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I think you guys are reading too much into their demeanor. Stu was the exact same way with the Nugent Hopkins pick, and RNH is probably the last excitable of our kids.

Yakupov was always the pick IMO. The fact that Katz only had dinner with him and not the other prospects pretty much says it all.

I'm sure they did their due diligence in debating it and what not, but that's about it.

Hall/Seguin a few years ago was likely the closest the Oilers went to going the other way.

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06-23-2012, 03:18 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
I'm sure at least one rational person has said it.... But this is all f n priceless.

For weeks we've been hearing how incompetent our mgmt team is "because I read from so and so that they might take x"

Now, for the third year in a row they took the guy we wanted, and moreover MANAGED a very tight ship, not leaking it to anyone.

Now the implication is that they didn't even make the decision, it was their boss!?

Unbelievable.

Just admit it.... Many of you were wrong about mgmt on this issue
I was praying that drafting Yak would have ended the whining, but unfortunately it looks like nothing has changed. Since when did the average age of HF become 12.

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