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06-23-2012, 08:07 AM
  #101
Damaged Goods
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
to get a player like Ryan you have to give up a player you may not want to part with. Would I trade JVR for him? absolutely. It sounds like Schenn is a player the Ducks would want in return. JVR or Schenn as the centerpiece is a deal I would do. I wouldnt deal both of them for Ryan.
Sure there is the argument that JVR could end up being the player that Ryan is. key word could. Ryan is the more rounded player then JVR and for only 850k more.
I would make the deal.

Then why do it? Is landing Bobby Ryan that much of an imperative?

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06-23-2012, 08:15 AM
  #102
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The reason the Flyers could be after Ryan is because the players(defenders) they want to acquire in a trade are just not there, or the asking price is way to much. If you can't improve your team in one area because the demand or price is too high, then try and improve your team in another way. Bobby Ryan would improve your team, but not at the cost of Schenn and Coturier, hence them not wanting to trade both of them for him.

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06-23-2012, 08:17 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
On paper it might, depending on what we would give up to get him. Why trade for him though? Are we trying to score 350 goals next year?
For all of our scoring prowess, we don't have any truly elite goal-scorers. I love Hartnell, but i'll be shocked if he can duplicate his numbers next year. Ryan would give the team a different look, and in my opinion would make us even better offensively than we already are. If I'm dealing either JVR or Schenn plus picks or replaceable assets, I'm on board. If we're talking more than that then I balk.

If I had to choose I'd look to acquire a frontline Dmanfirst, but if one isn't to be had, I could live with adding Ryan.

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06-23-2012, 08:21 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Then why do it? Is landing Bobby Ryan that much of an imperative?
Imperative is putting it a bit strongly, but I don't understand the confusion, really.

No one wants to overpay. If what we would have to give up for Ryan is an overpayment, I think most would be uncomfortable with it.

That said, there is an organizational need for a top-line scoring winger. Hartnell won't likely pot 35+ again, Jagr looks poised to leave, etc.

Could that player be JVR or Voracek? Maybe. But I'm not sold, even if they progress and reach their potential.

Voracek, I think, will be a very good, two-way playmaking type, but I'm not sure he's a good bet ever to score 30 consistently, even playing with Giroux. He's instinctively pass first, it seems.

JVR is more likely to turn into that kind of player, but he's far from a sure thing to do so.

Simmonds, Read, etc. are all good young players, but I don't think anyone thinks that they will be top-line players.

If we have the chance to move _EITHER_ JVR or Voracek + a secondary asset (read: non-roster player, non-1st pick, etc.), then I think it is a pretty easy decision.

To answer my own question from above: the least I think we could give up would be one of JVR / Voracek / Simmonds + Matt Read--hopefully for Ryan + a prospect in return. I'm not sure that the Ducks wouldn't value Voracek more highly than JVR at this point--he would be incredible on the line with Perry and Getzlaf.

Maybe Voracek, Read, and a 2nd for Ryan and Smith-Pelley? (From what the Ducks fans suggest, Simmonds has acted as something as a mentor for DSP since his draft year, and I think he'd fit extremely well as an above-average 3rd-liner).

JVR-Giroux-Ryan
Hartnell-Briere-Schenn
DSP-Couturier-Simmmonds
Rinaldo-Talbot-Wellwood

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06-23-2012, 08:33 AM
  #105
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Really the only thing I would be interested in moving is JVR and some picks. Him coming out and saying he wants to leave really hurt Anaheim's leverage over anyone.

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06-23-2012, 08:35 AM
  #106
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How good is Ryan defensively? I think everyone knows about his scoring but I don't here much else about his game since he plays out in Anaheim.

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06-23-2012, 08:44 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Bobby Ryan could be a 50 goal scorer. Even if he isn't that he can score 30. JVR hasn't proved anything.
This>>>>X2

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06-23-2012, 08:53 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by LegionofDoom627 View Post
Really the only thing I would be interested in moving is JVR and some picks. Him coming out and saying he wants to leave really hurt Anaheim's leverage over anyone.
I'm sure another team would offer more than JVR and a pick. The Flyers will have to compete with other teams, it's not like the Ducks will just send Ryan to the Flyers because he wants to be there, they are going to get the best return for their team. They may not set the asking price high, but another team, the Rangers for example, could conceivably outbid the Flyers.

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06-23-2012, 08:53 AM
  #109
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I think more people need to interview Ryan, and keep getting quotes about how he wants out. Need to drive his price down.

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06-23-2012, 08:55 AM
  #110
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I would love for this Ryan deal to go through... and I hope they don't go for Nash... we need to work on defense.

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06-23-2012, 09:02 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by tsquad View Post
I'm sure another team would offer more than JVR and a pick. The Flyers will have to compete with other teams, it's not like the Ducks will just send Ryan to the Flyers because he wants to be there, they are going to get the best return for their team. They may not set the asking price high, but another team, the Rangers for example, could conceivably outbid the Flyers.
Yea I understand that I'm just saying that they don't have to make a deal but Ryan would be nice. Anything involving Schenn or Couturier I'm not interested.

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06-23-2012, 09:09 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by LegionofDoom627 View Post
Yea I understand that I'm just saying that they don't have to make a deal but Ryan would be nice. Anything involving Schenn or Couturier I'm not interested.
Yeah exactly. I wasn't trying to single you out or anything, just stating that the price for Ryan will probably be too high for us Flyers fans, given there are other teams that will top us. Apparently Buffsauce is in on him too and I'd think they have the pieces to top JVR+

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06-23-2012, 09:29 AM
  #113
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Why would Ryan score 50 on the flyers if he can't do it with Getz and Perry?

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06-23-2012, 09:30 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Why would Ryan score 50 on the flyers if he can't do it with Getz and Perry?
While I think 50 is a bit high, I don't think it is that much of a stretch to suggest his production will improve.

1. He doesn't always play with Perry and Getzlaf. Even when he did, Perry is a shoot-first player. If Ryan ends up, for instance, with Giroux and Voracek, he's the only pure scorer on the line.

2. He gets zero 1st unit PP time, and apparently Anaheim's 2nd unit has been pretty poor for the last few years.

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06-23-2012, 10:14 AM
  #115
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I still have hope for a JVR-G-Ryan line, but they might balk at us not giving up similar talent with wanting to give them bulk. Now if we could get the rights to Schultz and get him signed before he becomes a free agent with Ryan the deal could make more sense.

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06-23-2012, 10:20 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
I still have hope for a JVR-G-Ryan line, but they might balk at us not giving up similar talent with wanting to give them bulk. Now if we could get the rights to Schultz and get him signed before he becomes a free agent with Ryan the deal could make more sense.
That would be great, sign me up for that deal

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06-23-2012, 10:22 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
I still have hope for a JVR-G-Ryan line, but they might balk at us not giving up similar talent with wanting to give them bulk. Now if we could get the rights to Schultz and get him signed before he becomes a free agent with Ryan the deal could make more sense.
Doesn't he become a free agent in like 6 hours?

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06-23-2012, 10:25 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Why would Ryan score 50 on the flyers if he can't do it with Getz and Perry?
Because he'd be playing with Giroux?

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06-23-2012, 10:54 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Can someone give me an honest reason as to why they would trade for Ryan, other than making a spectacular move?

What would be the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
On paper it might, depending on what we would give up to get him. Why trade for him though? Are we trying to score 350 goals next year?
To give Giroux an elite winger. We have 0 of those until Briere breaks out again and JvR breaks out....period.

Plus the other teams in our division are improving/planning to improve drastically. It'd be a mistake to make panic, kneejerk moves....but it'd also be a mistake to wait for Pittsburgh to dictate what players are available.

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06-23-2012, 11:06 AM
  #120
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To give Giroux an elite winger. We have 0 of those until Briere breaks out again and JvR breaks out....period.

Plus the other teams in our division are improving/planning to improve drastically. It'd be a mistake to make panic, kneejerk moves....but it'd also be a mistake to wait for Pittsburgh to dictate what players are available.
that's what im saying, if homer doesnt make an improvement on winger and defense and other teams get better, it could a very bad year for flyers, if that happens, i could see homer stepping down from gm or fired and a new coaching staff as well.

my gut feeling is telling me flyers are going to turn into the phillies this year.

i dont care how great the draft is, right now this offseason could be a make or break season, especially with jagr leaving and pronger not coming back. you have to replace them i dont care who, but do something, dont sit back. clarke did that, look what happened, it doomed the flyers in 06-07.

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06-23-2012, 11:09 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
that's what im saying, if homer doesnt make an improvement on winger and defense and other teams get better, it could a very bad year for flyers, if that happens, i could see homer stepping down from gm or fired and a new coaching staff as well.

my gut feeling is telling me flyers are going to turn into the phillies this year.

i dont care how great the draft is, right now this offseason could be a make or break season, especially with jagr leaving and pronger not coming back.
While it is certainly possible that they take a step back, the Flyers are in in almost exactly the opposite position of the Phillies: The Phillies are depending too heavily on a group of aging former stars; the Flyers have a wealth of young and prime-aged talent. Excepting Timonen and Briere, we really don't have any key contributors who are obviously on the wrong side of their peak. (Bryz is harder to place).

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06-23-2012, 11:20 AM
  #122
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Doesn't he become a free agent in like 6 hours?
I'm a tad conflicted on time, it will either be today at 5 pm or when all players become free agents July 1. Either way if a deal is done and he is signed - it could all be done within 4 hours and 40 mins. Or we sit and hope he just signs with us and Ryan could fall into our laps along with Parise and Suter.

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06-23-2012, 11:22 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
I'm a tad conflicted on time, it will either be today at 5 pm or when all players become free agents July 1. Either way if a deal is done and he is signed - it could all be done within 4 hours and 40 mins. Or we sit and hope he just signs with us and Ryan could fall into our laps along with Parise and Suter.
I'm fairly certain that his is UFA as of this evening, but can sign for about $50,000 more per year if he waits until July 1.

If that's the case, logically, he can begin to openly talk with other teams now, knowing he won't sign for another week.

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06-23-2012, 11:24 AM
  #124
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that's what im saying, if homer doesnt make an improvement on winger and defense and other teams get better, it could a very bad year for flyers, if that happens, i could see homer stepping down from gm or fired and a new coaching staff as well.

my gut feeling is telling me flyers are going to turn into the phillies this year.

i dont care how great the draft is, right now this offseason could be a make or break season, especially with jagr leaving and pronger not coming back. you have to replace them i dont care who, but do something, dont sit back. clarke did that, look what happened, it doomed the flyers in 06-07.
I hate to do double posts, but I strongly feel this way as well. Sitting back and letting other teams get better via free agency and trades - after trading away our core regardless of the return - could put us in the same position the Phillies are in. Good players, but with some bad luck, injuries, and other teams getting better - we're going to be in a very possibly rough season. The worse we do the better the chances of a clean house and a high draft pick, which I guess could be a blessing in disguise depending on how the season goes. Or we could be fine (not likely).

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06-23-2012, 12:26 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Then why do it? Is landing Bobby Ryan that much of an imperative?
if you think Ryan makes your team better then you do it. Ryan is the player JVR people hope he becomes. He hasnt yet. All we have gotten is glimpses, flashes. I like JVR. i have defended him since we drafted him and when he played at UNH. But if you have a chance to make your team better you have to take it.
The Flyers have an abundance of young forwards with promise that have yet to reach their potential. Now I would prefer to use those resources on defense, but they also need a top scoring winger as well. Can JVR become that? sure. but he hasnt yet. Ryan has.
I also dont think the window to make a trade closes this weekend. Dont know why people think that.

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