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Marc Staal to Carolina

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Old
06-23-2012, 02:17 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by EJS280 View Post
Oh I don't know maybe because nearly every year before this year the Rangers have made the playoffs by the skin of their teeth and matched up against Ovechkin in the 1st round where Staal played every minute against him and the top line? Is it possible that playing against teams best players night in and night out might have an effect on his plus minus? What a garbage argument for why a defensman is average.

His offensive skills are below average, yes. His defensive skills are top 5 in the league (You know, when he isn't recovering from a concussion playing 2nd or 3rd pairing minutes).

To cap off your idiotic argument, he wasn't voted in by the fans - they only vote in the starting lineups. But, obviously the NHL put him in because of his name.
Thanks for the laugh!

I have nothing more to say. There is no reversal of absurdity of this magnitude so I won't continue trying.

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Old
06-23-2012, 02:19 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Anton Jokinen View Post
Is that why Staal is a negative playoff performer? You make it seem like he's some sort of shutdown dynamo who makes Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin look human. Why is he an even or minus player in three of his four playoff appearances then?

We're talking about a guy whose average 82 game season is five goals and 14 assists. He brings very little to the offensive table and so is certainly not a true number one. As a second pairing defensive defenseman he is average. He is only a plus 7 career on a team that has made the playoffs every single season he's played for them.

He is the very definition of an average defenseman. The only reason he made the all-star game is because it is voted on my fans and he has Staal on the back of his jersey. He's not in the same league as his brothers.
This is extremely frustrating to respond to, but I'll do my best.
Second pairing? When he got back from his concussion this year, he averaged 19:53 of ice time a game. That's including third pairing minutes he started out in. By the end of the season and playoffs he averaged 25:17 a game.
Last year, he averaged 25:44 in the regular season (most on our team) and 28:01 in the playoffs (most on our team).
The year before, he averaged 23:07 in the regular season (most on our team) and we didn't make the playoffs, leaving your "He is only a plus 7 career on a team that has made the playoffs every single season he's played for them." comment extremely factual.
But please, continue thinking he's a second pairing defensman.

As for the All star game - he did not get voted into the game, he got picked based on merit. Only a few players get voted into it.

Playoffs - Besides his first year in the league, where he was a second pairing guy and was a strong + player in the playoffs, we were a bottom feeding team who barely squeeked into the playoffs.
He was a minus player the other ones because that's what happens when your team is outmatched. This past playoffs is the first time he wasn't outmatched in terms of teams and frankly, he was our best defenseman despite being an even player. McDonagh got all the flash because he was new, but Staal was the best dman on the team. Girardi got a whopping +6 in the playoffs, despite often making ridiculous defensive errors because he had incredible puck luck (12 points in 20 games - that's like a 50 point defenseman which Girardi is not). Except for Fedotenko, the rest of our team hovered between +2 and -4. We could not score even strength. Our PP started working and that frankly became the only time we could score in a lot of games.

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Old
06-23-2012, 02:21 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Anton Jokinen View Post
I have watched him play quite a bit. If you include playoffs I probably watch around 15-20 Rangers games a season. Over the course of four or five seasons that he's been in the league that adds up to having watched him quite a bit. He is a serviceable defensive defenseman with a poor release, average to below average shot, and average to below average playmaking abilities. He doesn't dominate physically but is solid positionally.

He's not an exceptional player and as I said I don't care if he comes to Carolina or not. He's not an impact player. Period. I'm not surprised at the overvaluations being thrown around in here though because he has been overrated on HF for a long time IMO.
You don't sound like you've seen him play at all. Him dominating physically is how he plays the game. He is the best board player on our team bar none.

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06-23-2012, 02:31 PM
  #179
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To those that say Carolina can just wait for Marc to be UFA then sign him, why didn't they wait for Jordan?
They gave up quite a ransom for somebody who refused to sign an extension and named carolina as his preferred destination.
Marc has a great contract, did not ask to be traded nor refused to sign an extension nor indicated he wants to be anywhere else besides NY.


Last edited by Kwayry: 06-23-2012 at 02:39 PM.
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Old
06-23-2012, 02:32 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Jokinen View Post
Thanks for the laugh!

I have nothing more to say. There is no reversal of absurdity of this magnitude so I won't continue trying.
Good, because nothing you said so far was intelligent.

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Old
06-23-2012, 02:36 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Disagree, even noting this is for overall, not just shutdown.

1. Weber yes
2. Karlsson = value, superior offensively, not as close defensively
3. Suter yes, superior offensively, close defensively
4. Pietrangelo yes, value close to McDonagh
5. Letang yes, but very close. Letang WAY better offensively, Staal WAY better defensively.
6. Yandle yes, superior offensively, close defensively
7. Timonen haven't seen enough to say
8. McDonagh yes
9. Doughty yes
10. OEL haven't seen enough to say
11. Chara yes, also kinda close Chara shot WAY better; defensively, both strong, Chara the greater bull, but Staal is much better skater, aiaec.
12. Phanuef way overrated, you must be joking
13. Boyle similar, prefer Staal, think he's better skater here also
14. Edler potentially better; right now close to even
15. Shattenkirk good, but not that good
16 Girardi ( my opinion) rated much higher than 16 as shotblocker non-parallel
17. Burns no, superior offensively, close but Staal better defensively
18. Meyers no
19. Keith close but Staal better version of same player
20. Seabrook no, superior offensively, close but Staal better defensively
of the following...
21. Bouwmeester
22. Campbell
23. Buff
24. Streit
25.Subban
26. J.Johnson
27. Enstrom
28. Erhoff
29. Goligoski
40. Bogo

only Subban + Streit merits consideration, and still prefer Staal

Accordingly, IMO
Staal = closest to top 12 overall
Joke? Staal 12th?... I'll take Subban, Streit, Erhoff, Enstrom, JJ and Seabrook from his 20-30 list in a heart beat over staal...

Did you seriously say Staal is close to Letang?? WTF? Edler close to even? Timonen is better by a big margin. Phanuef, maybe overrated but he's still better than Staal. Pietrangelo's value is close to Mcdonaughs? give me a break, I'll take Pietrangelo over Mcdonaugh+Krieder

In Summary: Full of Fail

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Old
06-23-2012, 02:37 PM
  #182
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can we sticky this thread until Staal plays for the Canes?

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Old
06-23-2012, 02:41 PM
  #183
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As a Pens fan, I really have no argument for either side, I have no doubt that Marc Staal loves it in New York and likes being a Ranger. I wouldn't say he wants to bolt from New York right away, but you have to look at it from his perspective. The Carolina Hurricanes have all 3 of his brothers under contract. That has to be enticing for him.

Like I said, I don't doubt that Marc loves it in New York, just like I didn't doubt that Jordan loved it in Pittsburgh, but like Jordan (and maybe Eric?) said, its not everyday you can play in the NHL with your brother on the same team, and maybe in their case, brothers. If Jared can be a bottom 6 forward, then his 3 brothers will be in the NHL, I think he would want to join them.

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Old
06-23-2012, 02:42 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
Joke? Staal 12th?... I'll take Subban, Streit, Erhoff, Enstrom, JJ and Seabrook from his 20-30 list in a heart beat over staal...

Did you seriously say Staal is close to Letang?? WTF? Edler close to even? Timonen is better by a big margin. Phanuef, maybe overrated but he's still better than Staal. Pietrangelo's value is close to Mcdonaughs? give me a break, I'll take Pietrangelo over Mcdonaugh+Krieder

In Summary: Full of Fail
Do you watch hockey?

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Old
06-23-2012, 02:43 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
Joke? Staal 12th?... I'll take Subban, Streit, Erhoff, Enstrom, JJ and Seabrook from his 20-30 list in a heart beat over staal...

Did you seriously say Staal is close to Letang?? WTF? Edler close to even? Timonen is better by a big margin. Phanuef, maybe overrated but he's still better than Staal. Pietrangelo's value is close to Mcdonaughs? give me a break, I'll take Pietrangelo over Mcdonaugh+Krieder

In Summary: Full of Fail
Streit, Phaneuf, Ehrhoff are all not even close. They are offensively there and defensively in the clouds. There were points in the season where Ehrhoff deserved to be a healthy scratch. Streit is a valuable player, but he's still a PP guy, not a go-to dman. Phaneuf is a nice, big, flashy pylon who has the occasional huge hit.


Honestly, we'll just keep our overrated defensemen and continue being a top 5 defensive team next year.

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Old
06-23-2012, 02:44 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
To those that say Carolina can just wait for Marc to be UFA then sign him, why didn't they wait for Jordan?
They gave up quite a ransom for somebody who refused to sign an extension and named carolina as his preferred destination.
Marc has a great contract, did not ask to be traded nor refused to sign an extension nor indicated he wants to be anywhere else besides NY.
That's not what's being said at all. Carolina can just wait until the price for Marc becomes lower, not wait for him to hit UFA.

Marc's value, right now, is quite high (obviously). He's still got plenty of years remaining on his deal and he's still a key contributor to the Rangers team. A few years down the road, however, his price may be lower due to one of these (or outside) factors changing. And that's why Carolina should wait. They're in no hurry to grab him, the Rangers are in no hurry to trade him.

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06-23-2012, 02:44 PM
  #187
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Do you watch hockey?
Same guy that thought Dennis Wideman would be our best defenseman. He is a Flyers fan that is clueless about the Rangers.

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06-23-2012, 02:44 PM
  #188
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It's not really surprising that Rangers fans would overrate Marc. They overrate all their players except for their big free agent signings who they trash after half a season.

I on the other hand have no reason to trash him or overrate him because I'm not a fan of the Rangers nor do I hate them. Marc Staal is not an elite defenseman. I wish he was, but he's just not. If he ever becomes a Hurricane I'll say the same thing but I'll probably be pissed if we trade for him and give up anything remotely close to the assets Rags fans are throwing out there.

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06-23-2012, 02:46 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
As a Pens fan, I really have no argument for either side, I have no doubt that Marc Staal loves it in New York and likes being a Ranger. I wouldn't say he wants to bolt from New York right away, but you have to look at it from his perspective. The Carolina Hurricanes have all 3 of his brothers under contract. That has to be enticing for him.

Like I said, I don't doubt that Marc loves it in New York, just like I didn't doubt that Jordan loved it in Pittsburgh, but like Jordan (and maybe Eric?) said, its not everyday you can play in the NHL with your brother on the same team, and maybe in their case, brothers. If Jared can be a bottom 6 forward, then his 3 brothers will be in the NHL, I think he would want to join them.
I wouldn't doubt it. And if that happens to be the case, in two years we'll be happy to accept the kind of return Jordan got.

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06-23-2012, 02:48 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Anton Jokinen View Post
It's not really surprising that Rangers fans would overrate Marc. They overrate all their players except for their big free agent signings who they trash after half a season.

I on the other hand have no reason to trash him or overrate him because I'm not a fan of the Rangers nor do I hate them. Marc Staal is not an elite defenseman. I wish he was, but he's just not. If he ever becomes a Hurricane I'll say the same thing but I'll probably be pissed if we trade for him and give up anything remotely close to the assets Rags fans are throwing out there.
'Rags' fans are perfectly fine with keeping Marc.

What you're saying is pretty much irrational and clueless. Bashing Marc over and over.

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06-23-2012, 02:49 PM
  #191
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Oh I don't know maybe because nearly every year before this year the Rangers have made the playoffs by the skin of their teeth and matched up against Ovechkin in the 1st round where Staal played every minute against him and the top line? Is it possible that playing against teams best players night in and night out might have an effect on his plus minus? What a garbage argument for why a defensman is average.

His offensive skills are below average, yes. His defensive skills are top 5 in the league (You know, when he isn't recovering from a concussion playing 2nd or 3rd pairing minutes).

To cap off your idiotic argument, he wasn't voted in by the fans - they only vote in the starting lineups. But, obviously the NHL put him in because of his name.
So Marc Staal is a Top 5 defensive player in the league who matched up against Ovechkin every minute in those series and allowed Ovechkin to run roughshod over him, putting up 13 points in 12 games over those 2 series (against what NYR fans claim is the best goalie in the league AINEC) ?

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06-23-2012, 02:50 PM
  #192
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We'll happily keep our horribly overrated Staal, if its alright with everyone else. Let us suffer with him.

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06-23-2012, 02:51 PM
  #193
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I'd say Jordan "I never scored more than 50 points" Staal and Eric "I only start producing when my team is already out of the playoff race" Staal are more overrated.

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06-23-2012, 02:52 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Anton Jokinen View Post
It's not really surprising that Rangers fans would overrate Marc. They overrate all their players except for their big free agent signings who they trash after half a season.

I on the other hand have no reason to trash him or overrate him because I'm not a fan of the Rangers nor do I hate them. Marc Staal is not an elite defenseman. I wish he was, but he's just not. If he ever becomes a Hurricane I'll say the same thing but I'll probably be pissed if we trade for him and give up anything remotely close to the assets Rags fans are throwing out there.
I have been an advocate of trading Staal for a long time because I think he's the most valuable piece we have to get another scoring threat and because I think in the long run, we can replace him. I think McDonagh makes him expendable unless Staal can just as easily play the right side. If he was right handed and Girardi was a lefty, I would say we should trade Girardi. Unfortunately, that's not the case. I would much rather trade G because he's just not as good as Staal is - but we can't.

However, I believe it was you who earlier called him an average, second pairing defenseman. That is just as wrong as calling Eric Staal a second line center.

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Old
06-23-2012, 02:52 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by n00bxQb View Post
So Marc Staal is a Top 5 defensive player in the league who matched up against Ovechkin every minute in those series and allowed Ovechkin to run roughshod over him, putting up 13 points in 12 games over those 2 series (against what NYR fans claim is the best goalie in the league AINEC) ?
Staal played against the Johanson-Backstrom-Semin line.

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06-23-2012, 02:54 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Staal played against the Johanson-Backstrom-Semin line.
Johansson wasn't even in the NHL for one of those series and Backstrom played w/ Ovechkin in the other.

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06-23-2012, 02:56 PM
  #197
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Johansson wasn't even in the NHL for one of those series and Backstrom played w/ Ovechkin in the other.
Was talking about the recent series.....

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06-23-2012, 02:57 PM
  #198
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Was talking about the recent series.....
EJS280 wasn't

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06-23-2012, 02:59 PM
  #199
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Skinner is far more valuable then Staal.I hate the Canes the most out of any team and even I can't deny that Skinner is an absolute beast.

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06-23-2012, 03:01 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Anton Jokinen View Post
Thanks for the laugh!

I have nothing more to say. There is no reversal of absurdity of this magnitude so I won't continue trying.
The hilarious thing is that you have no idea. Marc Staal has the ability to dominate a game defensively. It's all good though, we'll keep our Staal, thanks.

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