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Your 2012-2013 St. Louis Blues...part zwei

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06-21-2012, 03:12 AM
  #76
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Umm yes. Dreger is on Bob McKenzie level.
False. Nobody is on Bobby Mac level.

It holds some weight with Dreger, but Bobby Mac saying it would have meant more

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06-21-2012, 03:44 AM
  #77
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I can't understand why a few on here want to trade Cole. He's not going anywhere. Granted nothing is a given, Cole will have to earn it, but I do see Cole taking Cola's Spot on the Defense at the start of next season.

I'd love to see Suter or Garrison, or a stud Defender aquired via trade as well, as we wait to see what chips Armstrong has up his sleeve soon.

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06-21-2012, 03:47 AM
  #78
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False. Nobody is on Bobby Mac level.

It holds some weight with Dreger, but Bobby Mac saying it would have meant more
Agreed that no one is on the level of Bob Mac.

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06-21-2012, 10:51 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue1967 View Post
I can't understand why a few on here want to trade Cole. He's not going anywhere. Granted nothing is a given, Cole will have to earn it, but I do see Cole taking Cola's Spot on the Defense at the start of next season.

I'd love to see Suter or Garrison, or a stud Defender aquired via trade as well, as we wait to see what chips Armstrong has up his sleeve soon.
If we do sign another defenseman, then there is no doubt that Cole would be available in the right deal. Otherwise he is a good 7th guy, but that isn't doing much for his value./

The same is with D'Agostini, I don't understand why people think about moving him for a 3rd and a going nowhere prospect. He is depth, and considering the injuries issues we've had over the years I'm surprised any Blues fan thinks he won't see significant time next season.

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06-21-2012, 11:41 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue1967 View Post
I can't understand why a few on here want to trade Cole. He's not going anywhere. Granted nothing is a given, Cole will have to earn it, but I do see Cole taking Cola's Spot on the Defense at the start of next season.

I'd love to see Suter or Garrison, or a stud Defender aquired via trade as well, as we wait to see what chips Armstrong has up his sleeve soon.
Its a couple things:

Playing the 7th man is going to be counerproductive for Cole's continued development. It would be better if he had a fulltime spot either in AHL or NHL...and Armstrong has gone out of his way to mention that Cole is ready for full-time NHL duty.

Now, might that mean a roster spot, but frequent healthy scratches? He did that a fair bit this season.

The pluses for the Blues are that he gives some solid NHL depth at the position, and he's inexpensive being on his ELC. THe negatives are that his long-term future may be hampered with the lack of playing time.

However, injuries are a given...and I think the team will end up keeping him if they're able to sign (say Garrison) as UFA. If that occurs, I think they'll get a couple bottom 6 guys (maybe just re-sign some of last year's players) and the off-season will be all but done. But Cole is also a piece they can afford to move if a team need hasn't been addressed yet (this is all assuming they get a top pairing guy either as UFA or in trade).

But I don't believe I've seen anyone advocating trading Cole for the sake of moving him alone.

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06-21-2012, 12:16 PM
  #81
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Personally I would rather go after Kuba then get into a huge contract with Garrison. The Jay McKee contract still haunts me I guess.

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06-21-2012, 12:38 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Its a couple things:

Playing the 7th man is going to be counerproductive for Cole's continued development. It would be better if he had a fulltime spot either in AHL or NHL...and Armstrong has gone out of his way to mention that Cole is ready for full-time NHL duty.

Now, might that mean a roster spot, but frequent healthy scratches? He did that a fair bit this season.

The pluses for the Blues are that he gives some solid NHL depth at the position, and he's inexpensive being on his ELC. THe negatives are that his long-term future may be hampered with the lack of playing time.

However, injuries are a given...and I think the team will end up keeping him if they're able to sign (say Garrison) as UFA. If that occurs, I think they'll get a couple bottom 6 guys (maybe just re-sign some of last year's players) and the off-season will be all but done. But Cole is also a piece they can afford to move if a team need hasn't been addressed yet (this is all assuming they get a top pairing guy either as UFA or in trade).

But I don't believe I've seen anyone advocating trading Cole for the sake of moving him alone.
I don't think it'll hurt Cole at all to serve as the 7th guy. He himself said he leaned a ton from Shaw and others just by practicing with the team and playing here and there. He's got nothing left to learn in the AHL but I don't think he'll be hampered at all serving as the 7th guy at the start of the year. Besides, it only takes one injury and all of a sudden, he's a top 6 regular.

I also don't recall Army saying that Cole was ready for or a full time job (or perhaps if he did, maybe he was just talking about a top 7 role with no more shuffling between STL and Peoria). In his interview with JR a few days ago, Army said that Cole was ready for the top 7 and that it would be up to him to steal icetime and earn his way into the top 6. That all but told me that their plan is for Cole to start the season as the 7th guy and then go from there.

Cole was 8th on the depth chart last season and now he's moved up to 7th. I think he's progressing just fine.

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06-21-2012, 12:38 PM
  #83
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Personally I would rather go after Kuba then get into a huge contract with Garrison. The Jay McKee contract still haunts me I guess.
Um I disagree on Kuba. Garrison would be a cheaper alternative the Suter.

on a sidenote, can someone send me the " Trap Fiction " avatar via email or how do I get this since I am older then dirt? LOL I love it !

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06-21-2012, 01:04 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue1967 View Post
Um I disagree on Kuba. Garrison would be a cheaper alternative the Suter.

on a sidenote, can someone send me the " Trap Fiction " avatar via email or how do I get this since I am older then dirt? LOL I love it !
It isn't that I wouldn't want Garrison over Kuba, it's just that I think his contract is going to be a mistake to whoever gives it to him if its what is being rumoured. If the Blues were willing to go 5 mil per year on Garrison, they might as well go all in on Suter if he would be willing to sign.

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06-21-2012, 01:48 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue1967 View Post
Um I disagree on Kuba. Garrison would be a cheaper alternative the Suter.

on a sidenote, can someone send me the " Trap Fiction " avatar via email or how do I get this since I am older then dirt? LOL I love it !
If you search the forums, there is a whole thread about "playoff avatars" where you can see dozens of these.

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06-21-2012, 01:49 PM
  #86
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...playoff+avatar

This thread. Just read it back to front.

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06-21-2012, 06:53 PM
  #87
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Personally I would rather go after Kuba then get into a huge contract with Garrison. The Jay McKee contract still haunts me I guess.
To be honest this is some poor logic. I mean, anyone can insert a name of some other contract that wasn't that great and then say that contract haunts them, but there's nothing logically connecting Garrison to McKee. At all.

A big one that many are overlooking is that at the time McKee was signed the cap was around 44M. 4M per year was almost 11% of the cap for a player who was a #4/#5 defenseman.

The other thing most people aren't understanding about Garrison is how strong a defensive defenseman he is. Those of us who are high on him recognize that coming into the league for your career's first 200 games and playing against top lines and shutting them down is NOT easy. But that's what he's done. He is coveted for his defense against other teams' best lines, first and foremost.

He has only had one season being used in an offensive capacity but lo and behold it turns out he has a slapshot that ranks in the very top echelon of the NHL. Play him with an offensive defenseman like Campbell who defenses also have to guard and that slapshot can eat opponents alive.

What do the very best defensive defensemen get nowadays? They get high threes and low fours. But none of them have the slapshot Garrison has. It's a unique weapon. It forces teams to adjust. So not only will he tally 8-15 goals a year with it depending on shooting percentage, it frees up your whole PP because opponents can't leave him alone blasting away. So you add some $$ onto what the best defensive defensemen get and voila.

He played tons of PP, tons of PK, faced all kinds of top lines and played huge minutes. He may have taken longer to develop by playing all the way through college but there are plenty of examples of defensemen who became coveted in the NHL who bloomed later. At 27, he's about to enter his prime years. Blues are a perfect situation for him and they have the perfect need for him at this exact time.

Nothing like Jay McKee signing at all. I hope the Blues wind up trading a 3d at this draft for his rights and that Armstrong can get him for 5 x 4.5M because he's pretty good at that. But 5 x 5M is a top price and every once in awhile you have to pay something expensive. There are Blues fans who want Jay Boumeester at 6.7M!!

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06-21-2012, 07:08 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
False. Nobody is on Bobby Mac level.

It holds some weight with Dreger, but Bobby Mac saying it would have meant more
Nice nitpicking. McKenzie is the best but Dreger is certainly almost on his level. He's very reliable.

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06-21-2012, 07:56 PM
  #89
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Maybe it's just me, but I haven't seen one mention of the Blues having a budget this year. Last year we heard all about how much we could afford to spend. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we go out and sign Suter or some other big name free agent. Makes you wonder if the new ownership basically gave army a blank check and said go get what you need...

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06-21-2012, 08:39 PM
  #90
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Im still skeptical. I don't think youll see a contract top 5 mil AAV.

Hope I am wrong.

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06-21-2012, 09:02 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
Im still skeptical. I don't think youll see a contract top 5 mil AAV.

Hope I am wrong.
Hell, I hope you're right! I want Garrison at about 4.25/year.

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06-21-2012, 09:17 PM
  #92
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Hell, I hope you're right! I want Garrison at about 4.25/year.
If we trade for his rights i guarentee/hope he wont be getting 5x5. T

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06-21-2012, 09:20 PM
  #93
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Maybe it's just me, but I haven't seen one mention of the Blues having a budget this year. Last year we heard all about how much we could afford to spend. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we go out and sign Suter or some other big name free agent. Makes you wonder if the new ownership basically gave army a blank check and said go get what you need...
JR said that Stillman has given Army his budget but he's not telling anybody what it is. Stillman has said countless times that he's looking to cut losses so a blank check wouldn't make any sense in that case. Something tells me the budget is probably pretty much the same as it was this past season.

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06-22-2012, 01:11 AM
  #94
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Maybe it's just me, but I haven't seen one mention of the Blues having a budget this year. Last year we heard all about how much we could afford to spend. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we go out and sign Suter or some other big name free agent. Makes you wonder if the new ownership basically gave army a blank check and said go get what you need...
That's not how I remember it. We all KNEW there was a budget, but Armstrong would be foolish to tip his hand prior to negotiations. I remember being surprised there was money to sign Arnott AND Langenbrunner.

Every team has a budget. The Blues included. But I suspect they have a green light to get an elite piece at LHD if its available, even if expensive.

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06-22-2012, 01:51 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
That's not how I remember it. We all KNEW there was a budget, but Armstrong would be foolish to tip his hand prior to negotiations. I remember being surprised there was money to sign Arnott AND Langenbrunner.

Every team has a budget. The Blues included. But I suspect they have a green light to get an elite piece at LHD if its available, even if expensive.
I'll bet they'll be allowed to spend $4.5-$5 million on Garrison, but, maybe not $7 million on Suter. My worry is that no matter what The Blues can offer Suter, Detroit will be able to bid significantly above. The only chance The Blues have there, is if Suter would much rather play for The Blues, and will take 7-12% less salary to play for St. Louis, and live there.

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06-22-2012, 03:47 AM
  #96
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If you search the forums, there is a whole thread about "playoff avatars" where you can see dozens of these.
Thanks...

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06-22-2012, 05:42 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
JR said that Stillman has given Army his budget but he's not telling anybody what it is. Stillman has said countless times that he's looking to cut losses so a blank check wouldn't make any sense in that case. Something tells me the budget is probably pretty much the same as it was this past season.
A budget can mean anything. Teams that can spend to the cap are still on a budget in a sense. I'm sure you can cut losses in other areas and still increase the budget to sign players. Plus they have the extra income from 2 playoff series last season.

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06-22-2012, 05:51 PM
  #98
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A budget can mean anything. Teams that can spend to the cap are still on a budget in a sense. I'm sure you can cut losses in other areas and still increase the budget to sign players. Plus they have the extra income from 2 playoff series last season.
It all comes back to 2013/14. We are in a good position on the financial front for next season, but the following season will see a rise in the region of $8m in salary and that is taking into account losing McDonald and Crombeen.

I'm sure there is money to spend, but it isn't as simple as the fact we only have $39m committed for next season.

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06-23-2012, 05:14 PM
  #99
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Does anyone else see a lot of Parise in Schwartz? im really hoping he develops into a Parise type player.

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06-23-2012, 05:25 PM
  #100
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I think Stillman is proving how bad Checketts was at running the club from a business side. Stillman has appeared to already cut some of the costs; the budget doesn't seem to be a major issue this offseason; and since we have been rumored to be interested in players that have higher salaries, it must mean the budget is significantly higher than last season. I don't expect us to be a cap team, but all signs suggest that the budget will be high enough to allow Armstrong all the flexibility that he needs to reasonably find the player(s) that he wants.

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