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2012 Draft Complete: Ode to the 5'10 Center

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Old
06-23-2012, 03:46 PM
  #51
Kloparren
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Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
So you don't think Schenn would help our D at all? The only dman on our team that is better currently is EJ.
We don't need more slow and immobile dmen without offensive ability.

If you're talking about Brayden Schenn on the other hand

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06-23-2012, 03:50 PM
  #52
chewey
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
IMHO Rotten Ronnie did a pretty good number on him, I really have a hard time seeing him bounce back from his time under Wilson.
He's young and smart. It may not show but he'll figure things out soon enough. Is he ever going to win a Noriss? Probably not. But I think he can still solidify himself as a sandpaper of a defense and will hurt you, push you and just plain be nasty on you (bow chicka bow.. oh what ever).

I think he can bounce back, he'll just need to learn how to shut the media and fans out.

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Originally Posted by Omar Comin View Post
I don't hate him, but I sure don't see top pairing potential in him either. I don't see any need at all to give up any assets for him when we've got young defensemen of our own knocking on the door and in the pipeline.
Welp, as drake says, we both live in a condo but have different views! I certainly wouldn't be upset if the center return was Scheen for Stastny. I'd expect there to be a "+" but nothing back breaking for the leafs.

As far as our prospects go, yea we got some but I honestly expect Barrie to be traded within the year. I think he'll make the team and Elliott stay and develop in the A. Then while Barrie's value is high he'll be traded around the deadline and Elliott called up to take his place.

I'd sooner take Scheen than Gauce as well. Nothing against Gauce but Scheen just has higher potential in my eyes and the ability to reach it still. Its just too bad that many here will think Gauce will be better after next season when he plays in the NHL since he'll have better support than Scheen did.


Either way we'll just agree to disagree. Nothing will happen.

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06-23-2012, 03:53 PM
  #53
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ugh I did a little bit of copy paste and edit because my post about torontos need for a #1 center was misplaced in the other thread.

And the message I wanted to deliver got lost.
We are doomed if TOR does not get Roy because we will be seeing a proposal of the likes of Stastny for

Liles ( Former fanfavorite returning home), Colborne ( Avs always only draft small guys, Colborne can fix that orgainzational hole), Bozak ( stud no explanation needed) , Gunnarson and 2017 4th rounder.

Welcome back to hell.

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06-23-2012, 03:58 PM
  #54
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Irrelevant now, Schenn was just traded to Philly for JVR.

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06-23-2012, 04:01 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Omar Comin View Post
Irrelevant now, Schenn was just traded to Philly for JVR.
Scheen is going to be a stud. PHI, DET, and Preds would've the only teams that would turn him into a top pairing dman. Great deal for the Flyers.

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06-23-2012, 04:11 PM
  #56
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Dmitri, for the Flying Spaghetti Monster's sake, please stop calling him "Scheen".

I think the Flyers will have the better of the deal long-term by the way. I don't have enough faith in JVR's consistency though it might be a bit early to say that.

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06-23-2012, 04:14 PM
  #57
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Some stuff on Michael Clarke, Joseph Blandisi, and Mitchell Heard.

I had Clarke rated 31st among OHL players. Blandisi at 48th. I had Heard as the 7th best overager from the O.

Here's what I wrote about them.

Michael Clarke got off to an absolutely blazing start with the Spits, scoring 8 goals in the first 11 games of the season. At one point early on, I think TSN draft guru Craig Button actually had him in his first round for the draft. But then the wheels fell off. As Clarke's play slipped, so did his ice time and play on special teams. But he caught fire again towards the end of the season and finished strong to help save his draft ranking. For Clarke moving forward, it's going to be about finding consistency, whether it's improving focus, conditioning, or whatever was preventing him from contributing through the middle part of the season. When he's on, Clarke is a very effective all around player. He's not big, but he's stocky and isn't afraid to go hard to the net without the puck. He's in your face. He's battling along the boards. And he's backchecking hard and playing the PK effectively. His offensive game is fueled by his play away from the puck. When he's not out there working and skating hard, he's not effective and not really noticeable. Interestingly enough, Clarke reminds me a lot of Former Spitfire Adam Henrique who had similar consistency issues in his draft season. He obviously figured it out and I think Clarke can too

The Attack had a very successful season thanks in part to contributions from up and comers like Blandisi. He's one of those meat and potatoes kind of guys who does all the little things on the ice to help his team win. He can play any forward position, but looks most comfortable down the middle. He plays hard at both ends of the ice. He battles on the forecheck and in the corners. He's not tall, but he seems to have a lot of strength and is pretty stocky. I actually think he's got more offensive upside in him, once he gains more confidence and gets more ice time. He shows flashes of puck skill coming down the middle and has an extra gear. I also like his hockey sense and ability to get to the net for garbage goals. Definitely a guy who's flying under the radar right now.

I was actually surprised that Heard didn't earn a contract from Toronto this offseason following a pretty impressive showing at their rookie camp and tourney. Heard is cut from the same cloth as other guys who've gotten themselves drafted as "re-entries" in recent years, like Andrew Shaw, Andy Andreoff, and Rob Flick. He's really a jack of all trades kind of guy. One thing that should garner a lot of attention from scouts is his faceoff ability, which is among the best among centerman in the league. On top of that, he plays in all situations for the Whalers and is an aggressive in your face forward. His offensive skills are pretty average overall, but I do think his playmaking ability is quite underrated. Bottom line is that he profiles pretty well as a potential checking line player in the NHL with his ability to win face-offs, work hard defensively, and protect the puck in the offensive zone. He'd probably get a few more points if he was bigger, but the fact that he's so fearless (in an Andrew Shaw kind of way) has to help his cause. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if the Leafs tabbed him in the later rounds.

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06-23-2012, 04:16 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NHL33 View Post
Dmitri, for the Flying Spaghetti Monster's sake, please stop calling him "Scheen".
Yea, I catch that mistake every now and then. W/E. Once the universe works on spelling Duchene and Stastny correctly then I'll reform. Till then if anyone has a problem,



Quote:
I think the Flyers will have the better of the deal long-term by the way. I don't have enough faith in JVR's consistency though it might be a bit early to say that.
I think JVR will be a good player. Top 6. But I think Schenn will be worth more to a team down the road than JVR will.

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06-23-2012, 04:17 PM
  #59
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Feel bad for JVR. Can't catch a break. Philly fans give him all kinds of grief, and now he goes to Toronto. yikes. Kid should have went somewhere quiet like Columbus.

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06-23-2012, 04:17 PM
  #60
chewey
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Brock you big beautiful *******. Thank you for that write up.

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06-23-2012, 04:19 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
Yea, I catch that mistake every now and then. W/E. Once the universe works on spelling Duchene and Stastny correctly then I'll reform. Till then if anyone has a problem,
Stastny will walk and Duchene will be traded. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
I think JVR will be a good player. Top 6. But I think Schenn will be worth more to a team down the road than JVR will.
I don't think he'll be a bad player, just not a great one; I bet Schenn will be better overall. Maybe Flyers now trade for Ryan...

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06-23-2012, 05:22 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
Yikes! A bit of Schenn hate on here. I think he'll end up being a top pairing guy. Toronto isn't the place for him to develop. Its a great ****ing city tho.
He might develop into one, but my god does he suck right now.

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06-23-2012, 06:02 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
Scheen is going to be a stud. PHI, DET, and Preds would've the only teams that would turn him into a top pairing dman. Great deal for the Flyers.
How is he gonna develop any better on Philadelphia than he is in Toronto? He's not a mobile dman, he's not a great passer, he is physical but the Flyers game is more fast paced than just checking people. He didn't show any signs of improvement and he was more likely to excel in a well-coached defensive system such as the one Carlisle will probably put in Toronto based on the end of last season than he is in Philadelphia where Laviolette though a good coach isn't exactly the best at running a tight offense.

Flyers steal that deal imo, JVR is gonna be a 60-80 pt guy whenever he's healthy.

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06-23-2012, 06:10 PM
  #64
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Here are my thoughts on this year's draft.

Overall I'm happy with the picks. I would have liked a bit more size but I'm ok with it. They needed to replenish the farm at F and so they did. I think it speaks volume on what the Avs think of their D and goalie prospects to go a full draft without drafting any guys at these two positions.

Most of the guys picked today seemed to be guys ready to breakout so it will be interesting to see them improve next year. Heard was really surprising but the Avs must have seen a lot of him with Meurs being on that team so I trust them taking him so early. Smith is an intriguing pick as well. Very small but obviously very talented. Bourke is a great pick at 3rd being on a very bad team this year. And I really like Clarke being compare to Henrique.

Welcome and good luck to all of them.

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06-23-2012, 06:32 PM
  #65
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I love you Brock! <3

As I said before, it seems that a lot of these players are ready for breakout years in 2012-13.

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06-23-2012, 06:47 PM
  #66
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How is he gonna develop any better on Philadelphia than he is in Toronto?
1. Coaching and Development

You can't tell me there isn't a difference between Wilson and Laviolette. One just sits back, calls out his players and does absolutely nothing to help a player develop. When was the last player you saw that developed in Toronto? All the players that are playing well now were traded or are entering their prime.

We'll also see how Gardiner does. He's had one good season but so did Schenn and Bozak. If Gardiner does succeed it'll be due to the coaching of Caryle and Ducks developing him properly (the Ducks are great for developing players - Perry, Ryan, Getzlaf etc.)

2. Mentoring

I am sorry, but there is a steep decent in intelligence, play and commitment between Phaneuf and Pronger. Not to mention the defensive roster difference between Leafs and Flyers. The Leafs had more depth which Schenn got buried under. The Flyers actually have high end defensmen.

Schenn will get his chance to play with Coburn, Pronger, Timonen. He won't be forced into a different role and just be allowed to settle in with a team. He also won't carry high expectations like he did in Toronto.

3. Change of Scenery

I lived in Toronto and trust me, a lot of people wanted more out of this guy and it'll get to a 23 year old's head. I don't see him having that with the Flyers.

4. Team

Yes, the team. Its pretty big part for a player. You'll excel as far as your environment can take you. And Toronto not only couldn't take him far, they couldn't even take themselves far.


Quote:
Flyers steal that deal imo, JVR is gonna be a 60-80 pt guy whenever he's healthy.
Funny, the guy has never hit past 40 points yet you expect him to hit 20 - double that output. Especially on a team with no number one center and strong depth on wing. You see him getting many 1st line minutes? PP minutes? There were only 21 LWs that hit 60+ points last season and only a handful of players played on the same team from that group.

1. Parise/Kovy - they played on the same line sometimes with Henrique and they are the best LWs in the game, have a proven track record of health and have shown to be able to score alone

2. Kutniz/Malkin - yea, I'd have a hard time hitting 60 playing with Malkin, Crosby (be it 22 games) and Staal too!

3. Benn/Ericksson - Benn switched around to center here and there, but still these two are great reliable players.

4. MacPac/Cole - not sure how the **** Cole got on there but he did.

I am not saying that JVR doesn't have the skill or potential to be on here with Lupul (if he repeats last season) but I don't see him hitting 60 - 80 points till his prime.

I see Schenn being in a similar role to what EJ was in St. Louis. Fans weren't happy with his development and felt he could be dealt with due to faster not better (tho I think Petro vs EJ will be closer than people think down the road) dmen emerging.

We'll agree to disagree and bump this thread up or recall it in a year from now.

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Originally Posted by cyberfan View Post
Here are my thoughts on this year's draft.
Was it you who I got in an argument with about Howden a few years ago?

Quote:
I think it speaks volume on what the Avs think of their D and goalie prospects to go a full draft without drafting any guys at these two positions.
I agree with defense but I am going to disagree on goaltending. I don't think it speaks about the volume of talent with our goalies but rather the depth. This team has so many goalies signed and Varly leading the helm that it's probably best to see how they develop and pan out before wasting picks on them. Not to mention I don't think there were many goalies worth drafting save the first two picked in the first round (from what I've read, not seen).

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Welcome and good luck to all of them.
This.

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Old
06-23-2012, 06:57 PM
  #67
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How is he gonna develop any better on Philadelphia than he is in Toronto? He's not a mobile dman, he's not a great passer, he is physical but the Flyers game is more fast paced than just checking people. He didn't show any signs of improvement and he was more likely to excel in a well-coached defensive system such as the one Carlisle will probably put in Toronto based on the end of last season than he is in Philadelphia where Laviolette though a good coach isn't exactly the best at running a tight offense.

Flyers steal that deal imo, JVR is gonna be a 60-80 pt guy whenever he's healthy.
More like 90-120. He has all the skill in the world. There is a reason the avs were about to trade EJ for him and CBJ was about to give Nash. Too bad for Blue Jackets fans Howson wasn't smart enough to pull the trigger on the deal.

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06-23-2012, 07:10 PM
  #68
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not thrilled with the lack of size but all the draftees sounds like tough gritty wingers and forwards who can give you a lot of talent and effort.

we reloaded at F and that was a huge need coming into the draft.
hopefully we landed a couple of studs for the future.

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06-23-2012, 07:35 PM
  #69
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More like 90-120. He has all the skill in the world. There is a reason the avs were about to trade EJ for him and CBJ was about to give Nash. Too bad for Blue Jackets fans Howson wasn't smart enough to pull the trigger on the deal.
There are many reasons why I am skeptical about that statement.

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06-23-2012, 07:38 PM
  #70
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So.... I saw this post of RS's in the Ebert thread from the prospect board. Thought it should be highlighted here, quite impressive man.

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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Once again the amazing crop of 2012-eligible WHL defenders aren't getting enough love in this thread.

Ryan Murray and Griffin Reinhart will definitely get some talk as being top 3-5.

Other guys like Pouliot, Rielly, Dumba will all likely go in the first round too.

It's crazy to see so many defenders in that age group being so good. I could honestly see 15 defenseman being taken in the first round alone.
13 defenders taken, Murray and Reinhart top 4 picks... calling out Pouliot, Rielly and Dumba (top 8 picks). Nice job man.

All from 2010.

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06-23-2012, 08:10 PM
  #71
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There are many reasons why I am skeptical about that statement.
He's messing with JB.

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06-23-2012, 08:14 PM
  #72
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He's messing with JB.
My (bad) mistake.

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06-23-2012, 08:34 PM
  #73
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More like 90-120. He has all the skill in the world. There is a reason the avs were about to trade EJ for him and CBJ was about to give Nash. Too bad for Blue Jackets fans Howson wasn't smart enough to pull the trigger on the deal.
Only 90-120? Really?

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06-23-2012, 08:36 PM
  #74
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Do you guys think heard can crack the lineup next season since he's an overager?

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Old
06-23-2012, 08:36 PM
  #75
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EJ > JVR. Any day of the week, D2M.

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