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All Bobby Ryan Talk - Bobb(y)ing for Ryan Part III

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06-23-2012, 11:44 PM
  #51
Dark Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Couturier AND Voracek? How has Ryan's value gone UP after his comments?
If you carefully read my post you'll see that I implied that while Couturier by himself might not be enough for Anaheim to pull the trigger, Couturier + Voracek will not be the smartest thing for Philadelphia to do either.

Couturier by himself is not enough and the Flyers don't have enough prospects in the system to add to him and make it enticing for Anaheim.

The Flyers will need to trade FROM their team right now and I'm struggling to come up with what it will take along with Couturier for Anaheim to seriously consider it. Read is not enticing enough. So isn't Meszaros, although Anaheim does lack defensive depth in their squad with the trading away of Visnovsky.

I think Anaheim will need to hit a homerun if they're trading a guy like Ryan and while many will try to hype up Ryan to Flyers, its not as set in stone as I think teams like New York Rangers can offer better packages.

An offer of Chris Kreider + Michael Del Zotto + J.T Miller is better than anything the Flyers can realistically offer.

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Old
06-23-2012, 11:46 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
If you carefully read my post you'll see that I implied that while Couturier by himself might not be enough for Anaheim to pull the trigger, Couturier + Voracek will not be the smartest thing for Philadelphia to do either.

Couturier by himself is not enough and the Flyers don't have enough prospects in the system to add to him and make it enticing for Anaheim.

The Flyers will need to trade FROM their team right now and I'm struggling to come up with what it will take along with Couturier for Anaheim to seriously consider it. Read is not enticing enough. So isn't Meszaros, although Anaheim does lack defensive depth in their squad with the trading away of Visnovsky.

I think Anaheim will need to hit a homerun if they're trading a guy like Ryan and while many will try to hype up Ryan to Flyers, its not as set in stone as I think teams like New York Rangers can offer better packages.

An offer of Chris Kreider + Michael Del Zotto + J.T Miller is better than anything the Flyers can realistically offer.
The Rangers will not be trading Chris Kreider. If there is a trade with the Ducks for Ryan, Kreider won't be a part of it.

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06-23-2012, 11:49 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ayshplaysh View Post
Voracek + is all the Flyers could give, and the + certainly isn't either of Couturier or Schenn.
Ducks would have no reason to do that trade then. They need a 2C +

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06-23-2012, 11:50 PM
  #54
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Wasnt my point, Fowler had a sophmore slump just like MDZ did, after having a strong rookie season why should we not believe Fowler will have a strong 3rd season?
That depends. MDZ spent the entire last summer watching tape and having Sauer teach him how to actually play positional defense. Thus going from a -20 player to a +20 player, despite putting up even more points than his rookie season.

Sure, Fowler can come back and have another "strong season" just like his rookie season and MDZ's.

But to come back and be an impact player on both sides of the ice will require work.

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06-23-2012, 11:53 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
The Rangers will not be trading Chris Kreider. If there is a trade with the Ducks for Ryan, Kreider won't be a part of it.
Unlike some of my fellow Ducks fans, I'd be willing to sub Miller in for Kreider, but Stepan is still an essential inclusion.

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06-24-2012, 12:01 AM
  #56
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Well if the relationship between the Ducks and Ryan has indeed soured you can nearly guarantee that the Flyers is the last club that he will be traded to.

Why would they send him where he wants to go after pulling a stunt like this?

Unless of course the best offer for the Ducks comes from the Flyers.

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06-24-2012, 12:02 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by ayshplaysh View Post
Voracek + is all the Flyers could give, and the + certainly isn't either of Couturier or Schenn.
then theres no point, without 1 of those centers coming back there's no deal to be made

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06-24-2012, 12:04 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
If you carefully read my post you'll see that I implied that while Couturier by himself might not be enough for Anaheim to pull the trigger, Couturier + Voracek will not be the smartest thing for Philadelphia to do either.

Couturier by himself is not enough and the Flyers don't have enough prospects in the system to add to him and make it enticing for Anaheim.

The Flyers will need to trade FROM their team right now and I'm struggling to come up with what it will take along with Couturier for Anaheim to seriously consider it. Read is not enticing enough. So isn't Meszaros, although Anaheim does lack defensive depth in their squad with the trading away of Visnovsky.

I think Anaheim will need to hit a homerun if they're trading a guy like Ryan and while many will try to hype up Ryan to Flyers, its not as set in stone as I think teams like New York Rangers can offer better packages.
I wouldn't do Couturier straight up for Ryan, so I guess that ends that.


Quote:
An offer of Chris Kreider + Michael Del Zotto + J.T Miller is better than anything the Flyers can realistically offer.
And that is major overpayment for a disgruntled Bobby Ryan. In fact, I'd be happy if the Rags made that deal.

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06-24-2012, 12:04 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
That depends. MDZ spent the entire last summer watching tape and having Sauer teach him how to actually play positional defense. Thus going from a -20 player to a +20 player, despite putting up even more points than his rookie season.

Sure, Fowler can come back and have another "strong season" just like his rookie season and MDZ's.

But to come back and be an impact player on both sides of the ice will require work.
Fowler played first pairing minutes all season at 19/20 years old, MDZ has been lucky to get easier minutes and less difficult matchups

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06-24-2012, 12:12 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
The Rangers will not be trading Chris Kreider. If there is a trade with the Ducks for Ryan, Kreider won't be a part of it.
How many untouchables do you guys have? I feel liek every player is "untouchable". You are getting an elite winger who is good for 30-35 goals with upside that is way higher once he gets #1 PP time.

Kreider is so overated. What do you think his upside is? 50 goals? Like how good does he have to be to be "untouchable".

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06-24-2012, 12:23 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by gliff View Post
How many untouchables do you guys have? I feel liek every player is "untouchable". You are getting an elite winger who is good for 30-35 goals with upside that is way higher once he gets #1 PP time.

Kreider is so overated. What do you think his upside is? 50 goals? Like how good does he have to be to be "untouchable".
I am simply telling you the way it is. The Rangers will not be trading Chris Kreider. It has nothing to do with me. My personal belief is that Chris Kreider will be a great second line LW, 25-30 goals, terrific on special teams, with incredible speed and strength. I can understand why they don't want to trade him. He has tremendous value.

Now, few Ranger fans have been pushing for Ryan on HFBoards like I have. But Ryan is not an elite winger. I can name 25-30 forwards that have more value, and if I can do that, that means he is not elite. He is very good, with the potential to become elite.

The Rangers have the following untouchables: Lundqvist, Richards, Callahan, Gaborik (for now), McDonagh, Staal, Girardi, Stepan, Kreider. They would deal Del Zotto, but I don't think the Ducks will want Del Zotto. Stepan is untouchable not necessarily because he is that great, although he is a very nice young player, but because the Rangers are trying to win a Stanley Cup and if they deal him, they don't have a second line center. While apparently the Rangers wouldn't move one of Staal or Girardi for Ryan, I would have no problem doing so, but I don't believe that the Rangers would have to add more than one of Dubinsky or Anisimov or a good prospect like Miller or McIlrath. Either Staal or Girardi is as good a shut down defenseman as Ryan is a scoring winger.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the rest of the untouchable list (Lundqvist, Richards, Gaborik, Callahan, McDonagh, Kreider). They're all worthy of that label, at least to our team, or they simply aren't realistic options for trade due to clauses/contracts/age/cap hits.

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06-24-2012, 12:27 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
If you carefully read my post you'll see that I implied that while Couturier by himself might not be enough for Anaheim to pull the trigger, Couturier + Voracek will not be the smartest thing for Philadelphia to do either.

Couturier by himself is not enough and the Flyers don't have enough prospects in the system to add to him and make it enticing for Anaheim.

The Flyers will need to trade FROM their team right now and I'm struggling to come up with what it will take along with Couturier for Anaheim to seriously consider it. Read is not enticing enough. So isn't Meszaros, although Anaheim does lack defensive depth in their squad with the trading away of Visnovsky.

I think Anaheim will need to hit a homerun if they're trading a guy like Ryan and while many will try to hype up Ryan to Flyers, its not as set in stone as I think teams like New York Rangers can offer better packages.

An offer of Chris Kreider + Michael Del Zotto + J.T Miller is better than anything the Flyers can realistically offer.
I wouldn't move Couturier straight up for Ryan. Highly doubt New York is even open to considering moving Kreider.

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06-24-2012, 12:28 AM
  #63
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Anaheim fans, Ryan would look absolutely sick in a Hawks uniform. Since Ryan is disgruntled, what would be a realistic addition to Saad in a deal?

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06-24-2012, 12:28 AM
  #64
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^ Ryan isn't an elite winger?

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06-24-2012, 12:28 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Cullksinikers View Post
Anaheim fans, Ryan would look absolutely sick in a Hawks uniform. Since Ryan is disgruntled, what would be a realistic addition to Saad in a deal?
They'd want Seabs, man.

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06-24-2012, 12:29 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Cullksinikers View Post
Anaheim fans, Ryan would look absolutely sick in a Hawks uniform. Since Ryan is disgruntled, what would be a realistic addition to Saad in a deal?
You need a second line center. We need a second line center. We aren't good trading partners.

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06-24-2012, 12:36 AM
  #67
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^ Ryan isn't an elite winger?
There can only be so many wingers (or any position) that are elite, or else there ceases to be a difference between elite and whatever comes after it: great...good...above average...whatever you want to call it.

How many elite wingers are there?

Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Hossa, D. Sedin, St. Louis, Kane, Perry, Parise, Eriksson, Nash, Iginla. Arguably Gaborik and Kessel.

You have to rank those guys above Ryan. Maybe not in terms of age or contract, but in terms of today.

So, again, how many guys get to be called elite? In my opinion, that term is reserved for a select few. Ryan would be one of the guys who would come right after those guys. He's a very, very good player.

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06-24-2012, 12:36 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Stepan+
Coturier+

Catching a theme here?

You're good at math?


Last edited by RyanCallahan24*: 06-24-2012 at 12:42 AM.
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06-24-2012, 12:40 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
There can only be so many wingers (or any position) that are elite, or else there ceases to be a difference between elite and whatever comes after it: great...good...above average...whatever you want to call it.

How many elite wingers are there?

Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Hossa, D. Sedin, St. Louis, Kane, Perry, Parise, Eriksson, Nash, Iginla. Arguably Gaborik and Kessel.
Loui Eriksson is elite? And Kessel is arguably elite?

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06-24-2012, 12:43 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Trance Kuja View Post
Loui Eriksson is elite? And Kessel is arguably elite?
Kessel just put up 1 PPG which Ryan has never done. Kessel is worth more. Ryan is a real good solid 30+30 player. But 60 points does not make you elite. Eriksson is more of an elite player than Ryan is. 70 point player on a great deal, and his good in all zones. great 2-way.

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06-24-2012, 12:45 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Trance Kuja View Post
Loui Eriksson is elite? And Kessel is arguably elite?
That's not what I said. Loui Eriksson is more valuable than Ryan, though. I personally prefer Ryan to Kessel, but they're more or less even in terms of value. You could make an argument either way.

I reserve the term elite for the first few names on that list.

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06-24-2012, 12:46 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Kessel just put up 1 PPG which Ryan has never done. Kessel is worth more. Ryan is a real good solid 30+30 player. But 60 points does not make you elite. Eriksson is more of an elite player than Ryan is. 70 point player on a great deal, and his good in all zones. great 2-way.
Bobby Ryan is a great two-way player, too.

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06-24-2012, 12:47 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
There can only be so many wingers (or any position) that are elite, or else there ceases to be a difference between elite and whatever comes after it: great...good...above average...whatever you want to call it.

How many elite wingers are there?

Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Hossa, D. Sedin, St. Louis, Kane, Perry, Parise, Eriksson, Nash, Iginla. Arguably Gaborik and Kessel.

You have to rank those guys above Ryan. Maybe not in terms of age or contract, but in terms of today.

So, again, how many guys get to be called elite? In my opinion, that term is reserved for a select few. Ryan would be one of the guys who would come right after those guys. He's a very, very good player.
IMHO, Elite to me is Stamkos, Malkin, D. Sedin, Ovechkin, and Kovalchuk.

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06-24-2012, 12:48 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
If you carefully read my post you'll see that I implied that while Couturier by himself might not be enough for Anaheim to pull the trigger, Couturier + Voracek will not be the smartest thing for Philadelphia to do either.

Couturier by himself is not enough and the Flyers don't have enough prospects in the system to add to him and make it enticing for Anaheim.

The Flyers will need to trade FROM their team right now and I'm struggling to come up with what it will take along with Couturier for Anaheim to seriously consider it. Read is not enticing enough. So isn't Meszaros, although Anaheim does lack defensive depth in their squad with the trading away of Visnovsky.

I think Anaheim will need to hit a homerun if they're trading a guy like Ryan and while many will try to hype up Ryan to Flyers, its not as set in stone as I think teams like New York Rangers can offer better packages.

An offer of Chris Kreider + Michael Del Zotto + J.T Miller is better than anything the Flyers can realistically offer.
No way on GOD'S GREEN EARTH is Kreider getting traded.

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06-24-2012, 12:48 AM
  #75
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Bobby Ryan is a great two-way player, too.
Eriksson is one of the few Selke caliber wingers.

Bobby Ryan plays ten minutes a game and any Ducks fan that says otherwise knows they're lying.

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