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How the JVR/Schenn trade can tip the pendulum in Leafs Favour

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Old
06-23-2012, 11:42 PM
  #26
topched
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchenntoRielly View Post
One thing, ******* Burke, but I'd think it'd be
Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
Gardiner-Schultz
Liles-Holzer

And another, ******* BURKE
" "



JVR to Reilly

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Old
06-23-2012, 11:43 PM
  #27
The Thin White Duke
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Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
We would be lacking that stay at home guy but I wouldn't exactly call our defense soft necessarily. Both the NJD and LAK defense corps hit less than the Leafs did during the regular season. Leafs had 5 people with 100+ hits (including Schenn) while NJ and LA each had 2. Not saying this proves you 100% don't need the stay at home physical guy, just trying to say that it isn't a must have.

Here are the teams defensemen sorted by hits if you felt like looking:
Toronto
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats
LA
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats
NJ
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats

From the draft interviews they kept on mentioning how the defensemen they drafted were mobile and had a high IQ, is Burke starting to switch to that instead of toughness on the backend?

Edit: Decided to look at how much the defense hit in Anaheim back in 2007 for their cup win, their top 4 hitters had 118, 82, 77 and 55 hits during the regular season. Toronto's top 4 hitters on the back end this year had 270, 214, 114 and 104.
That just shows that they weren't hemmed in their zone as much as we were IMO, especially considering the difference in size and defensive skill of the two forward corps. With Nieds and Pronger eating up half an hour of ice time, you'd figure they spend most of their time moving it out quickly instead of chasing the puck with hits.

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06-23-2012, 11:44 PM
  #28
Phion Keneuf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchenntoRielly View Post
One thing, ******* Burke, but I'd think it'd be
Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
Gardiner-Schultz
Liles-Holzer

And another, ******* BURKE
Your just mad you have to keep that username for a year.

Also, I like that D. That's how I would prefer it tbh.

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Old
06-23-2012, 11:52 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
My initial thought was that Schenn being moved meant that that would open up a spot for Holzer most likely. I never even thought about how the move might be done to make a roster spot more appealing to Schultz who is a player that everyone seems interested in to some degree.
Same here, thought the trading of schenn was meant to free up a spot for Holzer

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06-24-2012, 12:03 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Avnizzle View Post
We still gotta unload Komisarek to a team in need of hitting the cap floor.

Phaneuf
Gunnarsson
Schultz
Gardiner
Liles
Franson
Holzer (7th)
Only problem I see with that is that's roughly 5 offensive oriented guys and only one more defensively oriented guy (Gunnarsson) in the top six. Holzer might get a really good look now.

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06-24-2012, 12:05 AM
  #31
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My only surprise,no conditional pick.

A little concerned about JVR's concussion.This likely means the end of Kulemin and that to play Kadri,Burke had to give him someone with size to play with.Welcome Holzer,Schenn pt 2 but cheaper.Schenn needed a change and we needed size and still need more size.Move makes sense but I would have demanded a conditional pick for the concussion factor of JVR.Goodbye Luke,welcome to fickle leaf land.You will love Philly.

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Old
06-24-2012, 12:08 AM
  #32
TheKingSlayer
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If anything, I can see Burke trading Liles for a physical veteran d-man. We can run the pairings like so

Gunnar-Dion
Gards-Vet
Schultz-Holzer

Schultz will still get his 2nd unit PP minutes, probably with Gunnar, or maybe if he plays well enough, he can feed Dion the bombs from the point.

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Old
06-24-2012, 12:30 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hero View Post
Right now...

______ - Phaneuf
Garinder - ______
Gunnarsson - Holzer

With Liles/Komisarek/Franson not fitting in naturally.

Two spots could be filled with Suter/Schultz and really turn this team around.
Suter with Phaneuf, Schultz with Gardiner? Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Wouldn't that be a sexy looking Defence? Only difference I have is maybe Liles or Franson in Holzer's spot, and Holzer is the 7th.

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Old
06-24-2012, 01:43 AM
  #34
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Wow, people are just flat out stupid when it comes to Liles.

He is a top-4 defenceman and on the 2nd powerplay unit at least. He is one of few much-needed veterans on the team. He was one of our best defencemen before his injury. He comes at a discount (was JUST signed) and LOVES playing for Toronto. I don't know how else to say it.

HE. IS. GOING. NOWHERE.

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06-24-2012, 01:48 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Let's put it this way, if I am Justin, I may have been reluctant to sign with Toronto seeing Luke Schenn here, he would be far more comfortable signing here where there is a clear spot for a top 4 spot right beside Jake Gardiner, Leafs sent a not so subtle message, here's a spot for you if you want it. Coincidentally a guy you know well and have expressed interest in playing with. With Schenn in the picture, it wasn't clear he would have had a top 4 role.
My first thought when I heard Schenn was traded.

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06-24-2012, 01:51 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avnizzle View Post
We still gotta unload Komisarek to a team in need of hitting the cap floor.

Phaneuf
Gunnarsson
Schultz
Gardiner
Liles
Franson
Holzer (7th)
Phaneuf, Schultz, Gardiner, Liles and Franson are all better offensively then they are defensively thats ridicoulous imo, it should be the other way around 4 of your starting 6 dmen should be stronger defensively. and for those saying Gardiner and Shultz should play together should we sign him are way off base. both guys are known for being better offensively then defensively and being ones a sophmore and the other a rookie that would be a terrible decision to put them together, thats just asking for them to get lit up. should we sign Shultz both should be paired with a guy whose strong on the defensive end.

this of course is assuming playoffs are something were trying to make as opposed to it just being a developmental season.

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06-24-2012, 01:59 AM
  #37
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I hate to say it, but we need a defensive defenseman, because at this moment Gunnarson is our only one. hopefully Holzer or someone steps up.

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06-24-2012, 06:54 AM
  #38
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What if Rielly pulls a Gardiner out of camp.. I think Schultz will sign with Edmonton tbh, the incentive is so much higher there. Hope I'm wrong though.

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Old
06-24-2012, 07:31 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Wow, people are just flat out stupid when it comes to Liles.

He is a top-4 defenceman and on the 2nd powerplay unit at least. He is one of few much-needed veterans on the team. He was one of our best defencemen before his injury. He comes at a discount (was JUST signed) and LOVES playing for Toronto. I don't know how else to say it.

HE. IS. GOING. NOWHERE.
The few intelligent Leafs fans agree with you. The rest say "what have you done for me lately?"

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Old
06-24-2012, 09:10 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessely Snipes View Post
My first thought when I heard Schenn was traded.
You can look at it in 2 ways, whether Burke knows something or Schultz needed reassurance that he would make the lineup next year. Obviously with Luke here, he was Gardiner's partner for most of last year. With him gone, it leaves an obvious roster spot open. With due respect to Holzer, he's not a top 2 pairing D man. Neither is Liles on this team. Liles isn't a right handed shot either.

So Justin may be factoring it in right now and weighing his options. If I were him, I would automatically see a chance here to play with Jake and play an important role of the top 2 pairing.

We still have a hole on the #1 unit, we need a shut down D man to play with Phaneuf. Someone with size, we can go with Gunnar but preferably Gunnar would be a great 3rd pairing guy.

I see Liles, Franson, and Komi as interchangable parts until Blacker, Percy are ready, we have to give 1-2 years for Rielly and Finn to be NHL ready, no need to rush these 2.

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Old
06-24-2012, 09:12 AM
  #41
Saul Goodman
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It's amazing how quickly some of you forget when the offseason rolls around. There is no logjam of defensemen even if we sign schultz and keep komisarek. Gardiner could easily suffer from a sophmore slump, schultz being a rookie may take time to adjust and injuries will be inevitable. In the real world you need 8 nhl quality Dmen to be successfull.

I also find it interesting everyone pencils in gardiner and schultz to top 4 roles and liles/franson on the bottom pairing. I see it the other way around personally. Especially if liles can get back to where he was before the injury.

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06-24-2012, 09:19 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Saul Goodman View Post
It's amazing how quickly some of you forget when the offseason rolls around. There is no logjam of defensemen even if we sign schultz and keep komisarek. Gardiner could easily suffer from a sophmore slump, schultz being a rookie may take time to adjust and injuries will be inevitable. In the real world you need 8 nhl quality Dmen to be successfull.

I also find it interesting everyone pencils in gardiner and schultz to top 4 roles and liles/franson on the bottom pairing. I see it the other way around personally. Especially if liles can get back to where he was before the injury.
100% agreed.

Which is why I like the way this guys is thinking, and I agree, this does look like a position opening up move . . . and hopefully, a huge upgrade coming.

And, considering the high possibility of either Franson, Gunnarsson or Komisarek leaving via trade to acquire either Luongo or another asset . . . I think it's quite likely that the Leafs gun hard for Shultz.

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Old
06-24-2012, 09:33 AM
  #43
crump
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defenseman:

3 Dion Phaneuf 26 63″ 214 L April 10, 1985 Edmonton,
4 Cody Franson 24 65″ 213 R August 8, 1987 Salmon Arm,
24 Liles 31 510″ 185 L November 25, 1980 Zionsville,
51 Jake Gardiner 21 62″ 184 L July 4, 1990 Deephaven,
8 Mike Komisarek 30 64″ 243 R January 19, 1982 West Islip,
36 Carl Gunnarsson 25 62″ 196 L November 9, 1986 Orebro,

Komi must go.

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Old
06-24-2012, 09:39 AM
  #44
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great move. i'm stoked. i'm sure schenn will develop nicely in philly with his style of play... but if JVR can stay healthy, we win the deal handsdown.


jvr - grabo - kuli = great 2nd to me


Last edited by Porn*: 06-24-2012 at 10:22 AM.
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Old
06-24-2012, 09:58 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Only problem I see with that is that's roughly 5 offensive oriented guys and only one more defensively oriented guy (Gunnarsson) in the top six. Holzer might get a really good look now.
Exactly why Franson is likely out the door.

Not good enough to play over guys like Liles, Phaneuf, Gardiner and maybe soon even Schultz for power play time, to easy to play against 5 on 5 and won't ever see the penalty kill.

A Tampa like Tampa where he could get lots of powerplay time would get a lot more out of him.

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Old
06-24-2012, 10:03 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hero View Post
Right now...

______ - Phaneuf
Garinder - ______
Gunnarsson - Holzer

With Liles/Komisarek/Franson not fitting in naturally.

Two spots could be filled with Suter/Schultz and really turn this team around.
lol.. but I could only dream about:

Suter - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Schultz
Gunnarsson - Holzer

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Old
06-24-2012, 10:03 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Wanted to keep this separate from all the JVR/Schenn trade threads and focus on this. The Leafs trading of Luke Schenn sent a clear signal to Justin Schultz who may or may not have decided on which team he is going to sign with on July 1, that one team has a clear spot on their depth chart for a D man to play with Jake Gardiner on the 2nd pairing.

Now we know this, most insiders have hinted Justin is going to sign with a Canadian team, which one? It is uncertain, many have speculated Edmonton was a choice due to opportunity, opportunity for ice time and opportunity to play with it's young stars.

That opportunity may not have been as present on a Leafs team with Schenn, Phanuef and Gardiner on it, but now with today's trade, opportunity to play with his College teammate is only a signature away as he will be tenatively pencilled in on the 2nd unit. In addition the opportunity to play with exciting fwds as Lupul, Kessel and the newly acquired JVR offer further incentive.

So today's trade was as much abour acquiring much needed help up front, size and scoring as It was to clear a major obstacle of playing time for Justin Schultz.

This may have put a valuable checkmark on Justin's pros and cons list of choosing which team he will eventually sign with.
Doesn't do anything of the sort, how do you dream these things up? Schultz may or may not be able to step right into an NHL job, no one knows and no team can plan for it.

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Old
06-24-2012, 10:07 AM
  #48
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I think us drafting Finn and Rielly refrains the Leafs from being a preferable team for Schultz. I really think he signs with Edmonton.
Those two are years away. I doubt Schultz is concerned with a logjam two years from now, or that he feels heat from the 10% chance that a 2nd round pick makes the bigs. From his perspective Holzer is just another AHL player and Franson is a 6-7 guy and those aren't the spots he is after.

I can't read the guys mind but the allure of the club Edmonton may have in a couple years is not likely going to be an overwhelming incentive. He sees today a perpetual doormat, even more so than the Leafs, and a defensive corp that is kind of a mess. Does he want a savior tag and is he prepared for what could be a meat grinder for a couple of years until they add a bit more to get it straightened out? I happen to think Edmonton could be good for him but it promises to be the most challenging option for a year or two so it depends on his confidence level whether he wants to bite that off.

He's BC born so isn't that a more likely landing spot, given the club has opportunity, but is also a powerhouse? Not knowing the motivation for him bailing on Anaheim it's a tough call. Maybe Anaheim and Toronto are just a bit too big. Madison WI has only around 250,00 people. If he wants to stay in the east because of his life in Wisconsin then Minneapolis and Chicago are much closer than any other clubs. If he has actually said he wants Canada that's different.

Okay so my pick is Edmonton too If he really wants Canada but has never lived in a city the size of Toronto, and his family is from the west, it makes sense he would want to come to a western club. I think Tambellini would promise him whatever he had to, because he is way overdue to pull off something big as a GM(drafting 1st every year isn't a plus on his resume).

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Old
06-24-2012, 10:10 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Wanted to keep this separate from all the JVR/Schenn trade threads and focus on this. The Leafs trading of Luke Schenn sent a clear signal to Justin Schultz who may or may not have decided on which team he is going to sign with on July 1, that one team has a clear spot on their depth chart for a D man to play with Jake Gardiner on the 2nd pairing.

Now we know this, most insiders have hinted Justin is going to sign with a Canadian team, which one? It is uncertain, many have speculated Edmonton was a choice due to opportunity, opportunity for ice time and opportunity to play with it's young stars.

That opportunity may not have been as present on a Leafs team with Schenn, Phanuef and Gardiner on it, but now with today's trade, opportunity to play with his College teammate is only a signature away as he will be tenatively pencilled in on the 2nd unit. In addition the opportunity to play with exciting fwds as Lupul, Kessel and the newly acquired JVR offer further incentive.

So today's trade was as much abour acquiring much needed help up front, size and scoring as It was to clear a major obstacle of playing time for Justin Schultz.

This may have put a valuable checkmark on Justin's pros and cons list of choosing which team he will eventually sign with.
I disagree 100%. This trade is about accodating Holzer. Holzer does it better than Schenn.

Yes.

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06-24-2012, 10:11 AM
  #50
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I'd be happy with something like this

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Schultz
Liles - Holzer/Franson/Komi

I ordered in list of preference on the last pairing. Losing Schenn does hurt the backend, because I did want to see what Gardiner - Schenn could become, but oh well.

Logically, it would make sense to trade Franson and MacArthur away to get something that would help us (Luongo, 1b/2a centre, etc.)

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