HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Columbus Blue Jackets
Notices

Is the Blue Jacket defense a finished product?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-23-2012, 07:04 AM
  #26
Crede777
Deputized
 
Crede777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 7,100
vCash: 500
Wonder how Jack Johnson's play is affected by this in the long run. Didn't we just spend a few months talking about how JJ looks like a completely different player when he is THE guy?

In reality I doubt it changes much, especially in the short run. But I think it is funny that as soon as he gets here Columbus drafts potentially a Doughty of their own.

Crede777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 07:22 AM
  #27
Matthew
F.A.R.T on Mike Todd
 
Matthew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 7,305
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Matthew
Maybe in 7 years, hah.

Matthew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 07:42 AM
  #28
Roadman
Moving On
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London OH
Country: United States
Posts: 2,592
vCash: 500
No roster is ever a finished product.

There are some nice pieces in place, now we have to see how they fit together. Nikitin still needs to be signed. I would be in no hurry to "get rid of" Methot, unless it is an absolute steal of a deal for top six help. Even if he plays in the 5/6 slot, and he is over paid for that, it would allow Savard some more time in SPR. I know a lot of people are high on him but his skating needs some serious work. Assuming Murry has a good camp and makes the squad as advertised, it will probably be a spoon fed acclimation as far as minutes go, with Moore, Methot and Murray rotating.

Still more questions than answers at this point, but it is the best defensive corps the CBJ have assembled to date and should be competitive.

__________________
__________________

I post, therefore I am.
Roadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 07:54 AM
  #29
Xoggz22
Registered User
 
Xoggz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 4,198
vCash: 500
I like the potential our defense offers but obviously we need to see how it all comes together on the ice. We didn't play with Tyutin, Wiz, Methot down the stretch due to injuries. I think the chances are good it's a very solid unit. The defense will be as good as the offense will allow it to be. We aren't a team that can win 2-1 games because of the other holes that still exist.

I'm excited but not ready to call it a finished product. And Murray plays on the 3rd pair with some press box time to start his career. We'll know more after 9 games when the decision needs made. Now we need to ensure there are 9 games for him to play in.... NO LOCKOUT PLEASE!

Xoggz22 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 08:54 AM
  #30
chunkbox
Registered User
 
chunkbox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Findlay , Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 189
vCash: 500
what about trading Methot to Edmonton for pick #32

chunkbox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 09:46 AM
  #31
FlaggerX
Registered User
 
FlaggerX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Columbus
Posts: 1,170
vCash: 500
The question is what do we get back for Methot.

I liked Nikitn's play last year, and he seemed to find chemistry with Tyutin as JJ and Wiz did. We may be banking too much, but Nikitin will be signed.

The point is that now guys who were regular starters last year should start the season in the AHL, maybe including John Moore. That way the young kids like Savard and Goloubef can develop with top four minutes, and when the injury bug bites we'll have some depth.

I wonder if the front office took a good look at Nashville, and decided to build from the back in. They looked at the blue line from the end of last year and decided, it's strong, let's make the blue line our strenght. Bobrovksky's numbers from last year were lousy, but he's 22 and they were great the year before. Dansk is young and talented. Maybe they've just decided to build from the rear. If successful that could make us very much like the Predators, a defense-first club that's not very fun to play against.

Of course one of the goaltenders has to show up like Pekka Rinne, a tall order. And like Nashville we will need scoring, and with Nash gone it's hard to see too many points. RyJo should be better next year as he grows up, and but Nashville's big weakness has always been offense. On the other hand, the Jackets have drafted a lot of forwards over the years and few have shown up.

FlaggerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 10:24 AM
  #32
CapnCornelius
Registered User
 
CapnCornelius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,933
vCash: 500
In my mind, this defense isn't a finished product. But, at this point, I'd be shocked if Howson did anything more with it this off-season. He's going to get his top 4 that finished the season a chance to stay together.

Or does he? The real question is whether he can trust Murray and Moore together as a third pairing. Or, does it make sense to have a veteran paired with one of them? How do you do that and manage ice time?

You can have a better defense on paper, but if the pairings don't work the performance of the whole is less than the sum of its parts. And that's a bit of a concern with this defense--chemistry and balance. It gets more complicated in that I'm not convinced Nikitin can work with a defensive partner other than Tyutin. Going to make for an interesting camp.

CapnCornelius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 10:49 AM
  #33
slightlystewpid420
Registered User
 
slightlystewpid420's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,318
vCash: 500
im interested to see how murray effects the other players. if hes really a hard worker, motivator, leader, type figure than maybe he can help change the attitude in the locker room. Cause in reality thats where it all starts.

slightlystewpid420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 11:09 AM
  #34
Fro
Yes Cbus has hockey
 
Fro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Drinking With Carts
Country: United States
Posts: 13,738
vCash: 500
still don't like keeping "Controlled Chaos" together...would rather see something like

JJ - Meth
Wiz - Moore
Tyut - Nikitin
Murray

then put JJ and Wiz together on PP and play Moore/Tyutin - Nikitin on the 2nd and Tyut - Methot on PK

Fro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 12:23 PM
  #35
jacketsinDC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 404
vCash: 500
if the front office believes nikitin needs to be with tyutin to be successful he better be traded. JJ/wiz are top-4 and each needs a reliable partner (not each other). tyutin doesn't belong on the last pairing salary-wise or skill-wise.

jacketsinDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 12:54 PM
  #36
CapnCornelius
Registered User
 
CapnCornelius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacketsinDC View Post
if the front office believes nikitin needs to be with tyutin to be successful he better be traded. JJ/wiz are top-4 and each needs a reliable partner (not each other). tyutin doesn't belong on the last pairing salary-wise or skill-wise.
Can someone explain why people are so insistent on breaking up Wiz and JJ? This was the ONE consistent pairing at the end of the season during the spate of injuries and they did pretty darn good out there together because both are physical forces and forwards can't have their head down or take that extra step with them out there together.

Leave the one thing that works as-is. Fix the rest.

CapnCornelius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 01:06 PM
  #37
pete goegan
HFBoards Sponsor
 
pete goegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,398
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Can someone explain why people are so insistent on breaking up Wiz and JJ? This was the ONE consistent pairing at the end of the season during the spate of injuries and they did pretty darn good out there together because both are physical forces and forwards can't have their head down or take that extra step with them out there together.

Leave the one thing that works as-is. Fix the rest.
I have to agree. I know folks look at them and think it shouldn't work, but it did. I'd like to see them start out with what was successful and go from there:

JJ-Wiz
Tyuts-NikNik

Then work in Methot, Moore, Sevard, and Murray as 5-6-7-8.

pete goegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 01:26 PM
  #38
alphafox
Registered User
 
alphafox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 842
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Wonder how Jack Johnson's play is affected by this in the long run. Didn't we just spend a few months talking about how JJ looks like a completely different player when he is THE guy?

In reality I doubt it changes much, especially in the short run. But I think it is funny that as soon as he gets here Columbus drafts potentially a Doughty of their own.
I think there is an element of needing to be THE GUY to JJ's game, but I think it is more that he needs some recognition, which he never got in LA under Doughty's shadow. However I think the big issue JJ has always had was that he needs a partner that is "steady" not another chance taking D-man. JJ is like a poor man's Shea Weber. They are physical, offensive juggernauts but they too often get exposed going for the big play. They get out of position going for a hit or commit to much to the offense and get beat going the other way. Players like this need a really solid partner who is very good at positional play and are defensively strong (i.e. Suter). Some of the best D-pairs currently in the game operate like that (Keith/Seabrook, Suter/Webber)

Personally I think that eventually the D will look like
JMFJ-Murray
Wiz-Moore
Tyutin-Nikitin

I don't know who the seventh will be Methot, Savard, Weber? I'd expect, like the most of you that one or more gets moved for offense. (Though given the prices at the Trade deadline for D-men this year I could see the club holding onto these guys till then, a first for Methot? Yes Please )

alphafox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 01:27 PM
  #39
leesmith
"We're NEVER Done!"
 
leesmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 15,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I have to agree. I know folks look at them and think it shouldn't work, but it did. I'd like to see them start out with what was successful and go from there:

JJ-Wiz
Tyuts-NikNik

Then work in Methot, Moore, Sevard, and Murray as 5-6-7-8.
That's close to what I was thinking.

JMFJ-Wiz
Tyuts - Nikki6
Meth - Murray
Moore or Savard (the other starts in the A, but we'll see him soon enough)

Ideally, I'd like to have a big guy who can rattle your fillings in Methot's place. If Murray is NOT NHL-ready just yet, no worries. Moore or Savard can play there.

leesmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 01:32 PM
  #40
leesmith
"We're NEVER Done!"
 
leesmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 15,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Wonder how Jack Johnson's play is affected by this in the long run. Didn't we just spend a few months talking about how JJ looks like a completely different player when he is THE guy?
Oh, he's still the guy. There's no one on the blue line better.

leesmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 01:43 PM
  #41
Roadman
Moving On
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London OH
Country: United States
Posts: 2,592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
Oh, he's still the guy. There's no one on the blue line better.

That would be THE guy.

Roadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 02:11 PM
  #42
joshjoshjosh
ಠ_ಠ
 
joshjoshjosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Guam
Country: Eritrea
Posts: 2,258
vCash: 500
Wiz JJ Toots Nikitin Murray

Then Methot Moore Savard in that order.

Wouldn't mind seeing Savard or Moore spend the whole year in Springfield.

Of course we have to account for the inevitable injury bug throwing a grenade at the lineup

joshjoshjosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 02:52 PM
  #43
Xoggz22
Registered User
 
Xoggz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 4,198
vCash: 500
I'm not putting Murray ahead of Moore, Savard or Methot at this point in time. He needs to perform first. Earn it like eveyone else. Prove what you can do and begin at the bottom.

I would go so far as to say if the Rangers wanted to include MDZ in a trade for Nash, I would be happy to have him. Something else would need to be lined up to alleviate the overage but I wouldn't turn down high end defenseman just because we like what we have. If you can improve, do it and then move someone from the group.

Xoggz22 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 03:03 PM
  #44
alphafox
Registered User
 
alphafox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 842
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
I'm not putting Murray ahead of Moore, Savard or Methot at this point in time. He needs to perform first. Earn it like eveyone else. Prove what you can do and begin at the bottom.

I would go so far as to say if the Rangers wanted to include MDZ in a trade for Nash, I would be happy to have him. Something else would need to be lined up to alleviate the overage but I wouldn't turn down high end defenseman just because we like what we have. If you can improve, do it and then move someone from the group.
I agree to an extent. I don't want to give Murray anything, but from everything i've seen of him and heard on these boards (i.e. sore loser ) seems to make him a perfect to pair with an offensive defenseman. I'd rather throw him into the fire with his long term partner (re: JMFJ) and let them develop chemistry through the year.

As to grabbing more defensemen, am absolutely in favor of grabbing one if we can. I think our D will be set, but more high end pieces never hurts and we can always trade those that get pushed out for help up front.

alphafox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 06:33 PM
  #45
FlaggerX
Registered User
 
FlaggerX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Columbus
Posts: 1,170
vCash: 500
Murray and Moore play or they go down. They need the ice time more then anyone, and in the minors they get top pairing minutes. Let us all remember how RyJo and Moore wore down as the season progressed, and both with an extra season in juniors behind them, and even a year of AHL time for Moore. Moore retains AHL eligibility, but it is reasonable to suspect Murray's options are Columbus or juniors. So who do you sit? Methot makes the most sense in the press box. Murray and Moore could be rotated through the press box on a schedule to keep them from wearing down

(A strategy I suggest we also employ for Vinny Prospal)

But seriously with Savard, Goloubef, et all in Springfield, we can afford to take time developing our defensive prospects. As badly as we need forwards, we aren't going to get the kind of guy we need for Methot or Savard, at least not without a lot of sides. If Savard's skating continues to improve, or the other kids come on our trading hand improves.

While I think we'll be a lot better next year, (an admittedly low bar) I can't see the playoffs unless somebody plays line a Venzina winner. Falling a bit short would please me. Let's look at next season as a development year unless we get some big surprises early. Hang on to that blue line depth and see where we sit in 2013.

FlaggerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 07:08 PM
  #46
Friedrich
This is not my hat.
 
Friedrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Salzburg
Country: Austria
Posts: 2,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I do think Murray will be a KLesla replacement but better... As Blah said not much will change this season but next year Methot will be gone. As for our many offensive defenseman the heat is on Moore....
I don't understand this. Moore was never touted as a true offensive defensemen. He was a smooth skating defensemen with a good first pass and having occasional difficulties in his own zone.

Savard wasn't either. Savard was touted as very good defensively, with a very good shot and can contribute on the offensive side but needs to work on his skating.

The closest player we have to Murray is actually Moore, except I heard Murray does have a really nice slap shot, and is probably defensively better, closer to Savard.

And I've disagreed with Blah about Johnson and Wiz on the same pairing. I think their chemistry overcomes their defensive short comings in that they've trained together and perhaps communicate a little better. Johnson was afterall a plus player after coming here and playing a lot with Wiz. Wiz was a plus player after Johnson came, and they were both logging tons of minutes.

If people are looking for a gritty defensemen, I don't think getting rid of our grittiest in Wiz is a good idea.

Friedrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 09:24 PM
  #47
NashPF61
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 19
vCash: 500
id trade Nikitin before i let go Methot, IMO Wis and Nikitin can both be trade bait for some 2nd/3rd line scoring

NashPF61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 02:24 AM
  #48
Fro
Yes Cbus has hockey
 
Fro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Drinking With Carts
Country: United States
Posts: 13,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Can someone explain why people are so insistent on breaking up Wiz and JJ? This was the ONE consistent pairing at the end of the season during the spate of injuries and they did pretty darn good out there together because both are physical forces and forwards can't have their head down or take that extra step with them out there together.

Leave the one thing that works as-is. Fix the rest.
i'm surprised you actually posted something like this...career wise, both are pretty bad defensively...i'm scared to see if that pair breaks down...two offensive defensemen paired together...I feel both need to be paired with a defensive defenseman so they can roam free and not have to worry about trecking back to cover for the other when they're out of place

Fro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 02:42 AM
  #49
SpinTheBlackCircle
Global Moderator
Life as a Sharks fan
 
SpinTheBlackCircle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,633
vCash: 500
Murray is playing day 1.

__________________
Gots all my pertinence on it and such
SpinTheBlackCircle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 07:16 AM
  #50
EspenK
Registered User
 
EspenK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fro View Post
i'm surprised you actually posted something like this...career wise, both are pretty bad defensively...i'm scared to see if that pair breaks down...two offensive defensemen paired together...I feel both need to be paired with a defensive defenseman so they can roam free and not have to worry about trecking back to cover for the other when they're out of place
I agree with Cap. Ultimately you may be right, but until they break lets not fix them. If they do then we have options;if they don't great we have a pretty good d corps.

EspenK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:31 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.