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Derrick Pouliot | Defenseman | Portland (WHL) | 1st Round, 8th overall

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Old
06-24-2012, 06:58 AM
  #176
sniugneP
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I hate this place around the draft. Just came to that conclusion.
Me too. Too much negatives going on. They act like they know better than Shero.

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06-24-2012, 07:07 AM
  #177
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I was talking more Blueger and Sundqvist. Both totally out of left feild and taken pretty high. Blueger I saw once and he looks like a fine player, Krejci-ish, but was he even on the map as a 4th rounder. I guess SSM's is highly scouted so a lot of people knew about Blue.
maybe but it only takes one other team to like a guy and he's gone.

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06-24-2012, 07:09 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Are you talking about Alex Grant?
I guess you dont know what "similar offensively" means? Or that its different from saying they're completely alike?

He was qualified, obviously to be a pp QB in wbs at the very least. Everyone's forgot about him but the organization clearly thinks he has some value as an offensive d. Comparing his offensive game to gogo isn't much of a stretch, comparing the rest of it would be.

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06-24-2012, 07:14 AM
  #179
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I just hope that Pens scouts didn't become overly enamored with Pouliot just because they happened to see more of him, due to watching a lot of Winterhawks games to check on Morrow.

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06-24-2012, 07:16 AM
  #180
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Jesus, I get it, you drank the Shero kool-aid and will defend every pick he ever makes and that's awesome, but get off your high horse, bro. It must be nice being so much smarter and so much more informed on these guys than everyone else here, lol.

Just because I haven't scouted these players doesn't mean I can't form an opinion about them. I guess there should be a separate thread where the informed posters who actually watch all these prospects can talk, while all of us ignorant fans who read scouts and rankings can make wild speculations in another thread.

And just because Morrow had a great year doesn't automatically make every pick Shero makes a stud. That's just ignorance. Not to mention that Morrow was BPA (or close to it) so your comparison sucks. Pouliot was not BPA on anyone's list besides Shero and was a total reach at 8th overall. You can trust Shero all you want but untill Pouliot actually produced in the NHL, and proves that he's a better player than both Forsberg and Grigorenko I'm not going to be happy with the pick.
There should be a separate thread where you can go whine, because you are pouting like a little child in multiple threads about the DP pick. You have never seen any of these guys play, but are stating FP will be better than DP? Do you know how foolish that sounds?

And I'll be frank when I say you have a lot of stones preaching about ignorance. Anyone who forms an opinion around reading a few scouting reports, doesn't have a clue.

There is one pick I am not happy about and I wanted the Pens to draft another player in that slot (and I at least saw both play) but I'm not whining about it.

A wise man knows when to speak up or when his opinion is better left unsaid. A man with an uninformed opinion who makes a lot of noise... Well, I'll let you figure out how he is perceived.

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06-24-2012, 07:50 AM
  #181
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From what I read, I'd rather have had Trouba with that #8, but I would never take the stand some people have here. I know absolutely nothing about either guy, so I'll just let things play out. Shero has a huge leash with me, so I trust his judgement much more than I trust my own.

I do know Forsberg had a few huge question marks for me. Word is he wasn't good playing against men and hasn't really produced that much aside from one tournament, not mentioning, he plays in Sweden and plans on doing so for a few more years, then he has to come to North America and get adjusted to that. I don't think that pick is as sexy as some believe, but again, what do I know?

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06-24-2012, 07:53 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
There should be a separate thread where you can go whine, because you are pouting like a little child in multiple threads about the DP pick. You have never seen any of these guys play, but are stating FP will be better than DP? Do you know how foolish that sounds?

And I'll be frank when I say you have a lot of stones preaching about ignorance. Anyone who forms an opinion around reading a few scouting reports, doesn't have a clue.

There is one pick I am not happy about and I wanted the Pens to draft another player in that slot (and I at least saw both play) but I'm not whining about it.

A wise man knows when to speak up or when his opinion is better left unsaid. A man with an uninformed opinion who makes a lot of noise... Well, I'll let you figure out how he is perceived.
With trouba there, there was no reason to reach on poulliot. If we really were sticking to being "hard to play against", Trouba should have been the pick, hands down. One of the most well rounded defenders in the draft, there's very little you could argue poulliot does better. Maybe his vision and passing are a few ticks better. But trouba screams difficult to play against, in your face, pound you down and put the puck in your net hockey. Instead we took the defender who looks for every opportunity to act like a winger on the rush.

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06-24-2012, 08:04 AM
  #183
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by sina220 View Post
With trouba there, there was no reason to reach on poulliot. If we really were sticking to being "hard to play against", Trouba should have been the pick, hands down. One of the most well rounded defenders in the draft, there's very little you could argue poulliot does better. Maybe his vision and passing are a few ticks better. But trouba screams difficult to play against, in your face, pound you down and put the puck in your net hockey. Instead we took the defender who looks for every opportunity to act like a winger on the rush.
I was far from sold on Trouba and I'll just leave it at that.

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06-24-2012, 09:11 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Neither. Just like the majority of everyone here. That doesn't mean I can't read scouting reports and form an opinion. Although I'm sure you scouted all these guys and would have picked Pouliot as well, right?

Not at all dude. I was hoping for an elite FWD prospect at 8 but I'm far from an expert and that's the point: I'm not prepared to say because the guys on NHL Network and The Hockey News and TSN projected a guy somewhere a half dozen spots later (and I read and accepted their word for it), and Shero picked him earlier... that Shero made a mistake.

I think Shero and his scouts know more than both us AND 99% of the media guys reporting on this sport. Media rankings are just guesses; they're not objective measurements or rankings of a player. They're subjective. I guess you can argue Central Scouting and ISS are absolute authorities and GMs who deviate are often shown to be wrong in their choices but in that case I'd be interested in seeing the numbers over time (If anyone has them).

What bugs me about the Pouliot complaints is this:

If Maatta had gone 8th and Pouliot 22nd, almost no one would complain because that latter was slated somewhere in the 15-20 range. So we're going to split hairs and get pissed we moved a guy 8 slots forward in a draft that had maybe 2 can't miss F prospects (both gone by pick 8) and which was D heavy? Even though the guy is considered by some to be THE best D prospect in terms of overall skill? I can't see it. I think Shero and the guys have a very specific plan and the plan is home-grow stud D and use trades and FA to fill gaps with experienced F, rather than trying to develop them. Given the premium teams play for even very young and inexperienced offensive D (see also: Alex Goginovskowicz), and the success they've shown with Despres, Morrow and Harrington (in terms of developing rapidly), I'm willing to see where this leads us.


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06-24-2012, 09:16 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
So I should expect to see you criticizing Jiggy for being certain that it was a great pick?
Way to not acknowledge the point.

Stating with certainty that Forsberg will be better than Pouliot and that Pouliot wasn't as high on anyone's draft list, with zero evidence to support either claim (and I'll assume a lack of a time machine) is just ridiculous.

You don't like the pick. That's fine. You think one player is better than the other. That's fine, too. Just don't speak with certainty that in the future one player will definitely be better than the other or that you know how everyone has ranked players in a draft.

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06-24-2012, 10:08 AM
  #186
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It doesn't matter where Pouliot was ranked. PITTSBURGH liked him all year and scouted him, he probably wouldn't have been there at 22 so they took him at 8 while they could. It's not about rank, it's about who a GM thinks fits their team. Anaheim could have used Forsberg instead of the D they picked at #6 and they have Selanne who could retire next year. Tampa Bay picked Slater Koekkoek at #10, and they have St. Louis in his mid 30's.

Some Pens fans wanted Forsberg, that's fine. But don't say Pouliot is a bad pick because it's who Shero wanted for awhile and he played with Morrow and we got another good D in Maata at 22.

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06-24-2012, 10:33 AM
  #187
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I think another interesting note is that there was really only one trade where teams swapped 1st round picks to "move up or back". All the talk during the draft shows was that there definitely wasn't a consensus for rankings after the first 3 or 4 picks. For all we know maybe Shero and company thought they could trade back a few spots and still get DP and maybe not. But there sure wasn't a lot of teams doing that in the 1st round. They liked their guy and they snagged him at 8. Works for me.

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06-24-2012, 10:59 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
I just hope that Pens scouts didn't become overly enamored with Pouliot just because they happened to see more of him, due to watching a lot of Winterhawks games to check on Morrow.
Maybe they did, but for good reason.

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06-24-2012, 12:58 PM
  #189
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Let's move on, gentlemen. Many thanks.

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06-24-2012, 01:14 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I was far from sold on Trouba and I'll just leave it at that.
It doesn't matter. The point is if were really sticking to our team philosophy of tough to play against, or our drafting philosophy of always taking bpa, then trouba was an ideal pick. Which is why I've been so critical of Shero and those who act like we always go bpa, and why I've been so critical of a team thats been pushed around 3 years in a row, ever since its management became obsessed with possession dmen and not dmen who make it tough to play in their end.


And there's absolutely no way you couldve been "more sold" on poulliot, no matter how much tape you saw. I've seen plenty of Portland games this year and the kid is highly questionable in his end and along the boards, and his favorite play is joining the rush and playing wing, driving the net or slot. He just doesn't look to be much more than a pp specialist who could get picked apart 5v5. I've seen little, or very slow, improvement in his own end this year. There weren't many glaring differences from the begining to the end of the season, as far as I could tell.

Imo we need to get back to wanting to be a tough, nasty, team to play against, and we need to shift our draft strategy back toward that end a bit more. Target kids who fit our mold. And it appears Shero is starting to steer the ship back that way judging by his returns and comments about some of the picks.

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06-24-2012, 01:52 PM
  #191
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Trouba or Ceci would have been my choices... Pouliot was a reach...

But let'S say he has the more offensive upsides of all the d-men in the draft... I think it's easier to play defense than offense... Next year he will be counted as the man for Portland so he will evolve a lot...

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06-24-2012, 03:24 PM
  #192
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by sina220 View Post
It doesn't matter. The point is if were really sticking to our team philosophy of tough to play against, or our drafting philosophy of always taking bpa, then trouba was an ideal pick. Which is why I've been so critical of Shero and those who act like we always go bpa, and why I've been so critical of a team thats been pushed around 3 years in a row, ever since its management became obsessed with possession dmen and not dmen who make it tough to play in their end.


And there's absolutely no way you couldve been "more sold" on poulliot, no matter how much tape you saw. I've seen plenty of Portland games this year and the kid is highly questionable in his end and along the boards, and his favorite play is joining the rush and playing wing, driving the net or slot. He just doesn't look to be much more than a pp specialist who could get picked apart 5v5. I've seen little, or very slow, improvement in his own end this year. There weren't many glaring differences from the begining to the end of the season, as far as I could tell.

Imo we need to get back to wanting to be a tough, nasty, team to play against, and we need to shift our draft strategy back toward that end a bit more. Target kids who fit our mold. And it appears Shero is starting to steer the ship back that way judging by his returns and comments about some of the picks.
From what I've read about your opinions on prospects I've seen, let's just say the way you evaluate them and the way I do is about a complete 180.

Apparently Shero and his staff of scouts disagree with you also. So I'll take the combination of what I believe coupled with what the Pens scouts feel, over your opinion.

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06-24-2012, 03:39 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by sina220 View Post
I guess you dont know what "similar offensively" means? Or that its different from saying they're completely alike?

He was qualified, obviously to be a pp QB in wbs at the very least. Everyone's forgot about him but the organization clearly thinks he has some value as an offensive d. Comparing his offensive game to gogo isn't much of a stretch, comparing the rest of it would be.

Well, I think it's completely irrelevant. The likelihood of Alex Grant ever being a regular Dman for the Penguins is < 5%. When you're drafting a defenseman in the top 8 of the draft, you're projecting him to be a top-4 defenseman in the NHL.


The implication of your statement is that because we have an "offensive" guy in Grant in the AHL, it obviates the need for a guy with similar offensive skills who's likely to one day play in our top 4 on our NHL club NHL. That seriously has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

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06-24-2012, 03:59 PM
  #194
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For anyone complaining about this pick, how many of you live within the WHL viewing area?

Here is Blades colour-commentator on Pouliot:

Quote:
Some people were shocked to see Derrick Pouliot go as high as he did. I wasn't one of those people. I've called him the best playmaking D in the draft and that he might end up as the most offensively gifted WHL D of the draft. Obviously Pittsburgh thinks along those lines, too.
Read the rest of his WHL Draft recap here: http://whl-from-above.blogspot.ca/20...aft-recap.html

I do not see as much Jr. hockey as I have in years past w/ working nights at a bar Wed-Sat so I put a great deal of trust into the opinions of people like him. Sure, he may end up being wrong but everyone can be. I believe we have an extremely strong base on defense and a heck of a lot of cap space to add some valuable pieces to the team.

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06-24-2012, 04:02 PM
  #195
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I really don't get the "reach" talk. You can not like the pick...that's fine. Just because someone doesn't like it doesn't mean the kid was a reach. He was picked right about where he was ranked, and honestly, rankings are subjective. If you look at guys who are ranked 8-12, the difference in skill between any of the 4 will be marginal. Most of the rankings I've seen had Pouliot in the 8-16 range...hardly a reach. Now doing what Calgary did...that's called a reach.

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06-24-2012, 05:40 PM
  #196
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For those who haven't seen him play, he's not bad defensively, he just doesn't stand out in his zone. Not only that, but working on improving his play in the d-zone is easier than teaching someone to show his poise with the puck. Imo he is a smaller but more offensive Gormley.

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06-24-2012, 06:22 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Not at all dude. I was hoping
What bugs me about the Pouliot complaints is this:

If Maatta had gone 8th and Pouliot 22nd, almost no one would complain because that latter was slated somewhere in the 15-20 range. So we're going to split hairs and get pissed we moved a guy 8 slots forward in a draft that had maybe 2 can't miss F prospects (both gone by pick 8) and which was D heavy? Even though the guy is considered by some to be THE best D prospect in terms of overall skill? I can't see it. I think Shero and the guys have a very specific plan and the plan is home-grow stud D and use trades and FA to fill gaps with experienced F, rather than trying to develop them. Given the premium teams play for even very young and inexperienced offensive D (see also: Alex Goginovskowicz), and the success they've shown with Despres, Morrow and Harrington (in terms of developing rapidly), I'm willing to see where this leads us.
I think this is a very good point. The organization seems to have shown real proficiency in picking and or developing defensemen. It could actually be very smart to play to this strength. If Pouliot develops along the lines of his potential, that's huge. The Pens might be stacked at this position, but that's just fine because good d-men are valuable commodities, especially intelligent puck moving/offense creating ones. Goligoski after all became James Neal (from the Penguin's perspective) -- a forty goal scorer that just got signed for less than six million a year.

Pretty hard not to drink the Shero kool aid at this point, though the guy is certainly not perfect.

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06-24-2012, 06:47 PM
  #198
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i like this pick by then pens...iv been saying that since goligoski got moved, the pens have lacked legit danger from the blueline other than letang..now the pens have several prospects in the pipe who are phenomenal skaters and multi dimensional..as for the corps not being tough enough, i saw no indication from depres of being intimidated by the flyers and i wouldn't expect morrow to be timid either...i like this pick, the future of our d, and the possibilities in free agency.

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06-24-2012, 07:25 PM
  #199
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Starting to warm to this pick. However I think Shero has to work some magic now at July 1. If we get Parise things are great, or if we get Suter things are great because we make a trade for someone like Ryan. Pretty much this pick is tied to Staal and now Shero does to replace the impact forward he was.

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06-25-2012, 04:31 AM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
It doesn't matter where Pouliot was ranked. PITTSBURGH liked him all year and scouted him, he probably wouldn't have been there at 22 so they took him at 8 while they could. It's not about rank, it's about who a GM thinks fits their team.
if that was the case, then Forsberg would have been the player to pick, as he was absolutely the perfect fit for Pittsburgh.

So the only way for that pick to make sense is the Pens staff thinking of Pouliot as the best player available.
Personally i have my doubts about it, but i'm not familiar enough with Pouliot's game to be sure.
Personally #2, i think the Pens went into this draft determined to get Pouliot no matter what, never thought they had a chance at Forsberg and simply put their heads in the sand and went with the original plan.

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