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Is the Blue Jacket defense a finished product?

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Old
06-24-2012, 07:18 AM
  #51
EspenK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NashPF61 View Post
id trade Nikitin before i let go Methot, IMO Wis and Nikitin can both be trade bait for some 2nd/3rd line scoring
Brash rookie. Why would you keep Methot over Nikitin?

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06-24-2012, 09:07 AM
  #52
MoeBartoli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NashPF61 View Post
id trade Nikitin before i let go Methot, IMO Wis and Nikitin can both be trade bait for some 2nd/3rd line scoring
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I have to agree. I know folks look at them and think it shouldn't work, but it did. I'd like to see them start out with what was successful and go from there:

JJ-Wiz
Tyuts-NikNik

Then work in Methot, Moore, Sevard, and Murray as 5-6-7-8.
I have to agree with Pete and The Cap. It seems like we have some area of strength and before building on it, some want to trade some of that corp. I am concerned we have a lot of money tied up into the group, and it's one reason I would like to see Methot as his hit is a lot for a third pairing. But you can't put Moore and Murray together....way too green. So Methot is needed for now. For those who are slotting Murray as a first pairing with JJ, what are you drinking. Haven't we played that fantasy before projecting Filly and Z and Johansson into those slots before ever playing game?

Here is one thing I feel confident about....generally I would say this team is not good enough to make the playoffs. But if you have a solid D Corp and can get some goaltending, any team has a chance to finsih higher than their offense might otherwise allow...that we have have a new netminder who is being said likley to compete with Mason leaves me thinking we certainly don't have that issue solved (and why a single draft pick for Vokoun might have been a better route).

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06-24-2012, 09:10 AM
  #53
MoeBartoli
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Brash rookie. Why would you keep Methot over Nikitin?
Adding that I would ask the same question. Nikitin and Fedor were pretty solid.

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06-24-2012, 12:10 PM
  #54
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I can't make any sense of the top pairing 3 years from now.

Does JJ pull another disappearing act if Murray pans out as Niedermayer 2.0? Hopefully not as JJ-Murray compliment each other perfectly.

Johnson-Murray
Wiz-??
??-??

I don't think Tyutin will be here in 3 years. The organizational flotsam and jetsam should fill out the bottom pairing.

I guess we still need a second pairing shutdown guy.

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06-24-2012, 12:10 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
I agree with Cap. Ultimately you may be right, but until they break lets not fix them. If they do then we have options;if they don't great we have a pretty good d corps.
Today's shocker: Viqsi agrees with EspenK and CapnCornelius on something!

Seriously, though. They showed remarkable chemistry in their brief time together, so it's at least worth a try starting out. I'm not sure if that'll remain, but let's let that be decided on the ice rather than on paper.

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Old
06-24-2012, 12:16 PM
  #56
CapnCornelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoeBartoli View Post
that we have have a new netminder who is being said likley to compete with Mason leaves me thinking we certainly don't have that issue solved (and why a single draft pick for Vokoun might have been a better route).
Or, we could have done both and now not be worrying about the goaltending at all.

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06-24-2012, 12:27 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Or, we could have done both and now not be worrying about the goaltending at all.
Let me see if I have this straight.

Last year, the team signs Mark Dekanich, who has no injury history to speak of, and he gets hurt. When he comes back, he gets hurt. When he comes back again, he gets hurt. Somehow, the team was supposed to be clairvoyant enough to know that this would have happened, and therefore all the criticism for Dekanich being injured is warranted.

This year, we're supposed to believe that acquiring Vokoun was a magic answer. The same Tomas Vokoun who had a severe groin tear partway through last season, then tried to come back and injured it again. He'll be 36 when next season starts, and groin injuries for goalies aren't something that just go away...ask Pascal Leclaire how it can start there, but it inevitably leads to knee or hip injuries as well.

So if Vokoun were picked up by Columbus, and got hurt again or simply wasn't able to come back before the start of the season, you'd have been fine with a pat on the back and praise for a good effort to go get him? Somehow I doubt that. Somehow I can see a lot of damnation that would involve why a guy coming off a severe injury would have been looked at as the answer to anything, even in the short term, and even on a part-time basis.

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06-24-2012, 12:37 PM
  #58
CapnCornelius
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Let me see if I have this straight.

Last year, the team signs Mark Dekanich, who has no injury history to speak of, and he gets hurt. When he comes back, he gets hurt. When he comes back again, he gets hurt. Somehow, the team was supposed to be clairvoyant enough to know that this would have happened, and therefore all the criticism for Dekanich being injured is warranted.

This year, we're supposed to believe that acquiring Vokoun was a magic answer. The same Tomas Vokoun who had a severe groin tear partway through last season, then tried to come back and injured it again. He'll be 36 when next season starts, and groin injuries for goalies aren't something that just go away...ask Pascal Leclaire how it can start there, but it inevitably leads to knee or hip injuries as well.

So if Vokoun were picked up by Columbus, and got hurt again or simply wasn't able to come back before the start of the season, you'd have been fine with a pat on the back and praise for a good effort to go get him? Somehow I doubt that. Somehow I can see a lot of damnation that would involve why a guy coming off a severe injury would have been looked at as the answer to anything, even in the short term, and even on a part-time basis.
If my choices are between Vokoun and Mason, I'll go with Vokoun, injuries or not.

Just curious, what does Scott Howson having to acquire 3 goalies for his AHL and NHL squads and drafting 2 goalies in one off-season say about the level of attention he's paid to this position in 5 seasons?

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06-24-2012, 12:43 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
If my choices are between Vokoun and Mason, I'll go with Vokoun, injuries or not.

Just curious, what does Scott Howson having to acquire 3 goalies for his AHL and NHL squads and drafting 2 goalies in one off-season say about the level of attention he's paid to this position in 5 seasons?
I didn't ask whether you preferred Vokoun or Mason. I asked whether, if Vokoun had been acquired and signed, then was in no shape to play at a high level this year, whether or not you'd be on here blasting away with both barrels for banking on a goalie with a known recent injury history.

To your second question, don't forget that in 2010, there were two goalies drafted as well (Corbeil and Ouellette), and that the two AHL goalies (Lalande and LaCosta) weren't qualified. Personally, I have to wonder how much the goalie issue (which goes all the way back to the beginning of the franchise) had to do with yesterday's ouster of the four scouts.

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06-24-2012, 12:57 PM
  #60
NashPF61
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Brash rookie. Why would you keep Methot over Nikitin?
I just think that methot has more defensive upside than Nikitin and he plays tough , also hes a natural leader, theres plenty of offensive talent in our back-end.

I like Nikitin he kinda came outta nowhere and had a good pro season but id move forward with Marc.

Wis - Jj
tyutin - moore
murray - methot

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06-24-2012, 02:43 PM
  #61
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The Defense is solid. I like the 7 we have slated for the coming season, and I'm looking to Methot to really step it up in the "shut down" department this season.

The future looks good too, with this young core we have now, plus the addition of Murray who I think was the least risky of all the top 10 picks in this draft.

Goaltending I'm much less optimistic about.

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06-24-2012, 04:40 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
The Defense is solid. I like the 7 we have slated for the coming season, and I'm looking to Methot to really step it up in the "shut down" department this season.
Methot? Oh boy.

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Old
06-24-2012, 05:28 PM
  #63
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Barring a trade, I'm not sure why everyone is so quick to hand a spot to Moore over Savard. Moore didn't exactly finish the season that strongly, and even though Savard isn't our strongest need right now I say if he has a stronger camp we got to use him. It's not like he's horrid in the d-zone.

JMFJ-Wiz
Tyutin-Nikitin
Murray-Methot
Moore/Savard

Rotate in one of Moore/Savard with Methot depending on what we need that night.

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Old
06-24-2012, 05:28 PM
  #64
gojackets1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NashPF61 View Post
I just think that methot has more defensive upside than Nikitin and he plays tough , also hes a natural leader, theres plenty of offensive talent in our back-end.

I like Nikitin he kinda came outta nowhere and had a good pro season but id move forward with Marc.

Wis - Jj
tyutin - moore
murray - methot
Nikitin has just as much if not more defensive upside than Methot. And the offense he brings is 1000x greater than Methot.

I would go with:
JJ-Wiz
Tyutin-Nikitin
Murray-Methot/Savard

I trade Moore in a package for needed offensive help.

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Old
06-24-2012, 05:34 PM
  #65
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It's good if we have league average goaltending and don't trade Methot.

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Old
06-24-2012, 07:47 PM
  #66
leesmith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Let me see if I have this straight.

Last year, the team signs Mark Dekanich, who has no injury history to speak of
Stop it right there! (channeling Davidge)
Dex had a season ending knee injury in Milwaukee before he was signed by Columbus.

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06-25-2012, 09:37 AM
  #67
CapnCornelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
To your second question, don't forget that in 2010, there were two goalies drafted as well (Corbeil and Ouellette), and that the two AHL goalies (Lalande and LaCosta) weren't qualified. Personally, I have to wonder how much the goalie issue (which goes all the way back to the beginning of the franchise) had to do with yesterday's ouster of the four scouts.
This makes me feel more comfortable that we just used their skills to draft two goalies.

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06-25-2012, 10:02 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
Stop it right there! (channeling Davidge)
Dex had a season ending knee injury in Milwaukee before he was signed by Columbus.
I can't seem to find any actual record of this, either in severity or in how much actual time was missed. I know he was out for the playoffs, but can't find when it happened.

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06-25-2012, 10:04 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
I trade Moore in a package for needed offensive help.
I wouldn't. In order of defense I would be willing to trade.

1. Methot
2. Tyutin
3. Wiz

Beyond that, it would take a trade of epic proportions to consider moving any of our other roster defense and, obviously, Murray.

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06-25-2012, 10:04 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
This makes me feel more comfortable that we just used their skills to draft two goalies.
I was expecting you to say that Corbeil and Ouellette not being on the roster is what we get for using late-round picks on goalies.

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06-25-2012, 10:15 AM
  #71
CapnCornelius
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I was expecting you to say that Corbeil and Ouellette not being on the roster is what we get for using late-round picks on goalies.
Well, now that you mention it...

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Old
06-25-2012, 11:06 AM
  #72
gojackets1
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I wouldn't. In order of defense I would be willing to trade.

1. Methot
2. Tyutin
3. Wiz

Beyond that, it would take a trade of epic proportions to consider moving any of our other roster defense and, obviously, Murray.
I would trade Methot before Moore too, actually. I just think we could get more in return for Moore than Methot. Methot really does nothing for me, to be honest.

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06-25-2012, 11:56 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
I would trade Methot before Moore too, actually. I just think we could get more in return for Moore than Methot. Methot really does nothing for me, to be honest.
Cool. I just have no interest in trading Moore, unless that return is far above what Moore is worth to me.

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06-25-2012, 02:16 PM
  #74
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I don't think Murray will see 10 games with the CBJ this season. There have been years past when we didn't have the defensive depth we do now, but for now I see 7 guys (assuming Nikitin is back) ahead of Murray this season.

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06-25-2012, 02:39 PM
  #75
gojackets1
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I don't think Murray will see 10 games with the CBJ this season. There have been years past when we didn't have the defensive depth we do now, but for now I see 7 guys (assuming Nikitin is back) ahead of Murray this season.
I think we will see one or maybe 2 of Methot, Moore, and Savard traded just to make space for Murray. There isn't any purpose of having him play juniors another year if he's already NHL top 4 ready, imo. Of course, I could be wrong. Wouldn't be surprised to see Methot traded to the Oilers for a young forward of theirs.

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