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Old
06-22-2012, 01:39 PM
  #651
SabresOnTheWarpath
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Here's a thought, let me know what you think:

To NYR: Myers, Roy
To Buffalo: Mark Staal, Dubinsky

To Pittsburgh: Ennis, Adam, 21st
To Buffalo: Jordan Staal

With brother Mark on board, I like our chances of Jordan signing an extension like what Jame proposed. For centers we'd have Staal, Hodgson, and Dubinsky.

Edit: I just remembered Mark's concussion. Not sure I make this deal after remembering that.

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06-22-2012, 02:52 PM
  #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresOnTheWarpath View Post
Here's a thought, let me know what you think:

To NYR: Myers, Roy
To Buffalo: Mark Staal, Dubinsky

To Pittsburgh: Ennis, Adam, 21st
To Buffalo: Jordan Staal

With brother Mark on board, I like our chances of Jordan signing an extension like what Jame proposed. For centers we'd have Staal, Hodgson, and Dubinsky.

Edit: I just remembered Mark's concussion. Not sure I make this deal after remembering that.
1) Myers > Staal (younger, a lot more offense...We need more offense a lot more than we need better defense)
Roy > Dubinsky (I like Dubi, but objectively, Roy is a top 6 player, Dubinsky is not)
No.

2) If we waste actual assets to acquire a guy who won't sign a contract here... Seriously, just wait til free agency and pitch an offer at him. It's not like Buffalo can't make a more attractive offer than Carolina.

So on conclusion: Guys, is it really that hard to wait a year for Staal to hit free agency and then try to sign him without throwing away valuable roster players?

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06-22-2012, 03:29 PM
  #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresOnTheWarpath View Post
Here's a thought, let me know what you think:

To NYR: Myers, Roy
To Buffalo: Mark Staal, Dubinsky

To Pittsburgh: Ennis, Adam, 21st
To Buffalo: Jordan Staal

With brother Mark on board, I like our chances of Jordan signing an extension like what Jame proposed. For centers we'd have Staal, Hodgson, and Dubinsky.

Edit: I just remembered Mark's concussion. Not sure I make this deal after remembering that.
I wouldn't trade Myers alone for that package and I wouldn't trade Ennis straight up for Jordan Staal. Those are my thoughts.

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Old
06-22-2012, 04:09 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Hey, Pens fan here. Just some thoughts:

1. I am not surprised at all that Staal rejected Shero's offer so emphatically. 10 years, 60M is a lot of money, but it's also 15-20% less per year than Staal could get if he ever hit July 1, 2013. Plus, asking him to take that much less for the privilege of playing a primarily defensive role and centering Cooke and Kennedy types doesn't strike me as a great pitch.

2. People read much too much into this whole 'Jordan only wants to play in Carolina BS'. This is a business decision. It's about money, role, and environment. He wants closer to 7M, he wants a prime role, and he prefers to play for a solid organization with good prospects moving forward and in a city where he doesn't have a light shined on him 24/7. Carolina hits those check marks, with the added benefit that his brother plays there. Buffalo hits those check marks too (the trade off is no brother in exchange for a team with more immediate prospects for success). If Reiger is looking to acquire him, it's with every intention of giving Staal right now exactly what he'd want on July 1, 2013 (that's something Shero could never do).

3. Jeff Marek on XM radio reported that the Canes offered Ruutu, Ryan Murphy, and the 8th overall. If this whole 'Staal only will play with his brother' thing were true, then he wouldn't have offered that. The reason: Rutherford knows that having Eric gets him to the negotiating table and maybe gets Jordan willing to take a little more less than what he'd want on July 1, 2013. BUT, he also knows if, for example, Reiger gets him, odds are that an overwhelming offer at a minimum gets Staal to the negotiating table. Why? Because it's in his interest not to wait to see how the CBA and perhaps an under performance once finally cast in that 1C role would affect his value when he can get exactly what he wants now.

I'll leave whether he's worth it and what it will take to get him to you guys, but I wanted to chime in with my thought that, if Reiger gets him, then he's got every bit as much of a chance of resigning him as Rutherford does, because Reiger can give him the money, the role, the solid organization, the low key city environment, and, instead of a brother on the roster, better prospects to win sooner.
Smart, realistic, level-headed post. Thank you!

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06-22-2012, 06:03 PM
  #655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
People read much too much into this whole 'Jordan only wants to play in Carolina BS'. This is a business decision. It's about money, role, and environment. He wants closer to 7M, he wants a prime role, and he prefers to play for a solid organization with good prospects moving forward and in a city where he doesn't have a light shined on him 24/7.
The same set of circumstances / conditions were widely presumed to be what Brad Richards was going to make his decision on last summer...

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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
if Reiger gets him, then he's got every bit as much of a chance of resigning him as Rutherford does, because Reiger can give him the money, the role, the solid organization, the low key city environment
...and the same reasons why many of us wanted to believe that the Sabres had a realistic chance at him....

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instead of a brother on the roster.
....yet, just like it was a coach that tipped the scales for Richards from the start, it will be a sibling that tips it for Staal.

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06-22-2012, 07:09 PM
  #656
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and thats all she wrote

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06-22-2012, 07:09 PM
  #657
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Time to move on, he's gone

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06-22-2012, 07:21 PM
  #658
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Good return for the Pens, solid move for the Canes.

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06-22-2012, 07:22 PM
  #659
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So if we were to translate that trade to the Sabres it probably costs us Ennis/Hodgson, McNabb, and our 1st(12th overall)

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06-22-2012, 07:22 PM
  #660
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Staal, Staal, Skinner is a pretty sick forward core going forward..

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06-22-2012, 07:25 PM
  #661
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Ok, done.

Wish he was a Sabre but his feelings were expressed to Shero.

Oh well, time for plan B. Looks like we can get a center at 12!!!!!!

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06-22-2012, 07:25 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by sabresfan129103 View Post
So if we were to translate that trade to the Sabres it probably costs us Ennis/Hodgson, McNabb, and our 1st(12th overall)
I don't think so. Ennis/Hodgson > Sutter IMO and McNabb is a worth more than the difference between 12th and 8th.

I'd say closer to Stafford, 12 overall, +.

Sutter, 8th overall was the right returd for Pitts. They got their 3rd center, a high pick, and freed up cap space.

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06-22-2012, 07:33 PM
  #663
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so what do you think carolina wants for him?

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06-22-2012, 07:44 PM
  #664
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so what do you think carolina wants for him?
10 yr 60-70 mil

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06-22-2012, 08:00 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by sabresfan129103 View Post
So if we were to translate that trade to the Sabres it probably costs us Ennis/Hodgson, McNabb, and our 1st(12th overall)
Not really, because Carolina gave that package up knowing they were the team that could keep him past next year. Buffalo, or any other team, would never match that knowing he wouldn't stay past next year. I said earlier that Shero couldn't expect much more than a 1st rd pick and a prospect. Carolina gave them that, plus Sutter since they knew they were the team Staal would re-sign with, which made it fair.

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06-23-2012, 06:25 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Havok89 View Post
I don't think so. Ennis/Hodgson > Sutter IMO and McNabb is a worth more than the difference between 12th and 8th.

I'd say closer to Stafford, 12 overall, +.

Sutter, 8th overall was the right returd for Pitts. They got their 3rd center, a high pick, and freed up cap space.
The Pens wanted a guy they could slot in at center behind Crosby & Malkin.

Sutter fit the bill better than anything the Sabres could offer NHL-ready big, physical center-wise.

The 8th overall was better than anything the Sabres could offer pick-wise.

The Sabres weren't putting together a package the Penguins needed more unless they were giving up Pysyk, McNabb, + and the Pens didn't care about the center.

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06-23-2012, 06:26 PM
  #667
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...2593--nhl.html

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Jordan Staal is a Carolina Hurricane, which means Brian Burke was free to talk about how he could have been a Toronto Maple Leaf.

"It's not tampering to talk about a player that just moved," said Burke after the 2012 NHL Draft was completed in Pittsburgh on Saturday. "We were in on that trade. Obviously, the price they fetched was higher than this team was willing to pay."

The Pittsburgh Penguins traded Staal for center Brandon Sutter and defenseman Brian Dumoulin and Carolina's No. 8 pick in the draft, selecting defenseman Derrick Pouliot on Friday night.

"Good for both teams," said Burke.

There is, of course, another factor in the Toronto Maple Leafs not having the assets to land Jordan Staal.

"We didn't have a brother named Staal," said Burke of Hurricanes captain Eric Staal.

"That's part of the problem. It's the same thing when we got Scott Niedermayer in Anaheim. We had a brother named Robbie, and I'm sure that was a deciding factor for him."
Gotta love Burke.

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06-23-2012, 06:28 PM
  #668
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Yesterday he said if they had #1 overall they would have taken Reilly still. #********

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06-24-2012, 10:24 AM
  #669
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So what are all the excuses going to be next year, when Jordan is a top line center scoring 70+ points?

this thread should be stickied for "crow serving" purposes.

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06-24-2012, 10:37 AM
  #670
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Uh...if anything has been proven, it's that Staal was not going to play for anyone but Carolina for more than one season. Carolina has the cap room to match any possible contract offer, and a few extra mil (maybe) that Pegula could offer in a front-loaded deal (that Rutherford may very well have matched anyway) would not make a difference compared to playing long-term with big brother.

What's there to serve crow over, for any fans of any team? This situation played out very predictably and no GM can be blamed for being on the outside looking in.

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06-24-2012, 10:38 AM
  #671
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So what are all the excuses going to be next year, when Jordan is a top line center scoring 70+ points?

this thread should be stickied for "crow serving" purposes.
I'm sure you'll dig it up if it happens.

Btw, what crow will we be eating if he is on a team playing 2nd fiddle to Eric? He still won't be a #1 center.

He was also never coming here.

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06-24-2012, 10:53 AM
  #672
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I'm sure you'll dig it up if it happens.

Btw, what crow will we be eating if he is on a team playing 2nd fiddle to Eric? He still won't be a #1 center.

He was also never coming here.
Now that is a truthy statement right there.
Jordan Staal never gave the Sabres a thought. He wanted to go to Carolina and Carolina is where he went.

Pegula and Black are correct in that the Buffalo Sabres need to rebrand themselves as a destination players would love to come and play, a part of that is building a storied successful team, another part is contributing to the continued construction of downtown and still, another part is the organization itself and how the players are received and so on...........

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06-24-2012, 10:55 AM
  #673
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I'm sure you'll dig it up if it happens.

Btw, what crow will we be eating if he is on a team playing 2nd fiddle to Eric? He still won't be a #1 center.

He was also never coming here.
That's the real epitaph of the situation - which renders all of the debates, opinions, speculations, etc. about Staal as a Sabre moot. Just like the entire Brad Richards saga of last summer, the Staal quest can be remembered as an impossibility regardless of the Sabres' efforts.

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06-24-2012, 10:57 AM
  #674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
So what are all the excuses going to be next year, when Jordan is a top line center scoring 70+ points?

this thread should be stickied for "crow serving" purposes.
I've seen a TON of Staal over the past few years, I think 70 points is a career year for him. He might hit it once or twice, but his offensive skills are overrated.

He's definitely an above average goal scorer, has a great shot...but his playmaking leaves a lot to be desired and he goes through serious bouts of stone hands every so often.

His numbers will slightly increase because of increased ice time and more PP time. But he's still a 60 point player most years.

And I don't get the point of eating crow when there was no way he was going to come here in the first place. He held the Pens hostage to go play with his brother, everyone involved has said this much.

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06-24-2012, 10:57 AM
  #675
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I'm sure you'll dig it up if it happens.

Btw, what crow will we be eating if he is on a team playing 2nd fiddle to Eric? He still won't be a #1 center.

He was also never coming here.
i think he'll be the #1 center in Carolina, and Eric will move to wing.

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