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All Bobby Ryan Talk - Bobb(y)ing for Ryan Part III

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06-24-2012, 11:58 AM
  #251
mercury
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Damn, I hope this rumor has no legs. Taken from PhilaPhans, via Orange and Black.net.


"Jeff Rimer (Blue Jackets play by play) was just on the radio here in Columbus and said he heard it will be Voracek and Coburn to Ducks for Ryan, that the Schenn trade was absolutely a precursor.


I know it's Eklund - but for what it's worth, he says "Bobby Ryan rumors heating up this morning( to the Flyers), because they now have DEF.depth that Ducks want."

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06-24-2012, 11:59 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Jesus Teemu View Post
You're probably right, but there are certainly a couple other teams that could create a better package. Also, I wouldn't be surprised at all if a Voracek + package was already rejected at the draft by Anaheim. Safe to say there won't be a trade between the teams right now.
I think it is safe to assume Anaheim passed on a package around JVR before he was sent to Toronto.

I also think that if the Flyers offered Voracek, Read (a displaced center), and a 2013 1st, they are foolish, and Anaheim would be hard-pressed to turn it down, unless someone else went even crazier.

Relatively few players will provide more value, in sense of production per cap hit, then Matt Read, over the next two years. I could easily see the 1st being in the 20-22 range again next year.

I said it before, but, IMO, the Flyers can reasonably offer two baseline packages:

- Voracek, Mezsaros, 3rd

- Read, Mezsaros, 1st.

I wouldn't quibble with adding Cousins into either package. Voracek, Mezsaros / Read, and a 1st is insane, frankly.

I doubt _most_ teams will offer significantly more than the 1st one, though a few might. If the Rangers are willing to part with Stepan, it will be tricky for the Flyers to match. Ditto Nasvhille and Wilson, Buffalo and Hodgson, etc. With the exception of Stepan, none of those pieces are as valuable as Voracek, in my opinion, but they do suit Anaheim's needs better.

The second is more like the "kick the tires" kind of proposal that I would expect the Flyers to offer to start a conversation, realizing that it probably wouldn't be enough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Damn, I hope this rumor has no legs. Taken from PhilaPhans, via Orange and Black.net.


"Jeff Rimer (Blue Jackets play by play) was just on the radio here in Columbus and said he heard it will be Voracek and Coburn to Ducks for Ryan, that the Schenn trade was absolutely a precursor.

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06-24-2012, 12:00 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by captain richie18 View Post
Couturier and schenn arent getting traded. Anaheim has lost leverage and philly has the other assests to get it done besides these two.
Yeah, Philly has another assest to get it done ... which is Claude Giroux. Seriously, we are talking about Ryan here, he is still young, yet proven 30 goal scorer, i really don't think Anaheim give him without young center with top end potential (i.e. Schenn, Couturier) going the other way.

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06-24-2012, 12:00 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
If Parise said he doesn't want to go to NY, what makes you think he will go to Philly. If he goes anywhere it will be in the Western Conference so he won't have to play NJ much.
Arguably the dumbest logic I've heard today. Philly is not NY.

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06-24-2012, 12:00 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Preds fan, trying to make a point.

Quality >>> Quantity. Anaheim would rather have one really good asset then a 2/3rd liner, a 2nd pairing dman, and some picks. Obviously that proposal isn't fair, I'm just showing you that quality assets are better than a mess of average ones.
Vora will put up the same numbers as ryan next year. He made big strides considering bobby is mainly a goal scorer. Ill call those two a wash plus now you have mesz a solid solid prospect in cousins and a first. Those arnt just some "messy assests". They will al have a positive impact on the ducks.

Voracek and ryans POINT totals should be close to a wash so saying the rest are messy assests is retarded

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06-24-2012, 12:02 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
Lol duck fans and their GM overrating their players. A player hits over 60 pts and 30 goals a few times is not all that rare. Stop pretending like he's crosby. The kd doesn't even want to play for anh anymore.

Given that schenn could easily hit 25 goals and 60 pts this year why would we trade him plus more?
Bobby is one of 2 active NHL players to hit 30 in all of his first 4 seasons, along with Ovechkin. Yeah we overvalue him a little bit, but give him his due. Obviously the Giroux proposal was a joke, it would take Ryan+Fowler+.

I dont think Philly has the assets for Ryan with Schenn/Couturier off of the table. Package needs to be based around a young center, not another winger, Id rather just keep Bobby if we would have been getting back a winger.

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06-24-2012, 12:03 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by helgo View Post
Yeah, Philly has another assest to get it done ... which is Claude Giroux. Seriously, we are talking about Ryan here, he is still young, yet proven 30 goal scorer, i really don't think Anaheim give him without young center with top end potential (i.e. Schenn, Couturier) going the other way.
OK, please stop this madness.

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06-24-2012, 12:04 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Damn, I hope this rumor has no legs. Taken from PhilaPhans, via Orange and Black.net.


"Jeff Rimer (Blue Jackets play by play) was just on the radio here in Columbus and said he heard it will be Voracek and Coburn to Ducks for Ryan, that the Schenn trade was absolutely a precursor.


I know it's Eklund - but for what it's worth, he says "Bobby Ryan rumors heating up this morning( to the Flyers), because they now have DEF.depth that Ducks want."
God, I sure hope he's wrong

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06-24-2012, 12:06 PM
  #259
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Preds fan, trying to make a point.

Quality >>> Quantity. Anaheim would rather have one really good asset then a 2/3rd liner, a 2nd pairing dman, and some picks. Obviously that proposal isn't fair, I'm just showing you that quality assets are better than a mess of average ones.
Voracek was the centerpieve of the Carter deal. The 8th was the (very good) secondary asset. He also came with a 3rd.

Voracek's value has not fallen since last year--I dont' think anyone could reasonably argue it has. I'm not sure it has increased either.

Mez + 1st (20-22) = / > the 8th + a 3rd.

(And that's before adding in Cousins, who was a third himself--and took some nice steps offensively last year).

To suggest that Voracek, Mezsaros, and a 1st--or some permutation thereof--is "a mess of average assets" is pretty silly. No? What would that make someone like Colin Wilson, who's value is pretty clearly a tier below Voracek based on production and projection.

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06-24-2012, 12:06 PM
  #260
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I think building a package between Kulikov for Ryan would make a lot of sense for both Florida and Anaheim.

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06-24-2012, 12:10 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Voracek was the centerpieve of the Carter deal. The 8th was the (very good) secondary asset. He also came with a 3rd.

Voracek's value has not fallen since last year--I dont' think anyone could reasonably argue it has. I'm not sure it has increased either.

Mez + 1st (20-22) = / > the 8th + a 3rd.

(And that's before adding in Cousins, who was a third himself--and took some nice steps offensively last year).

To suggest that Voracek, Mezsaros, and a 1st--or some permutation thereof--is "a mess of average assets" is pretty silly. No? What would that make someone like Colin Wilson, who's value is pretty clearly a tier below Voracek based on production and projection.
I agree with everything besides questioning voraceks stock rising or not. Dude was over a PPG over the last 35 games of the season or so. Look up his numbers since march 2 when kronwall destroyed him.

He will be a ppg winger and he plays pk and is a good defensive player. I cant believe people actually used to question his work etthic

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06-24-2012, 12:11 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Jesus Teemu View Post
God, I sure hope he's wrong
Same here. Murray has lost his sense of what this team needs if that's the package he wants. Regardless of the value, Murray needs to use Ryan to fix the problem at center.

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06-24-2012, 12:14 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by captain richie18 View Post
Vora will put up the same numbers as ryan next year. He made big strides considering bobby is mainly a goal scorer. Ill call those two a wash plus now you have mesz a solid solid prospect in cousins and a first. Those arnt just some "messy assests". They will al have a positive impact on the ducks.

Voracek and ryans POINT totals should be close to a wash so saying the rest are messy assests is retarded
Why are you trading Voraček for Ryan then? Defies logic.

I see Ducks needing a centre is a concept hard to grasp.

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06-24-2012, 12:14 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
The player's value has decreased because of his previous season and the fact that he has publicly stated he wants out.
He said he wants it over with, but too bad he is under contract for 3 more years. The Ducks don't have to trade him, and if they don't get an offer they like they won't.

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06-24-2012, 12:16 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
Why are you trading Voraček for Ryan then? Defies logic.

I see Ducks needing a centre is a concept hard to grasp.
Because flyers need an absolute pure scorer. Hartnell is great and all but us sensible flyer fans cant see him consistantly putting up 37 a year. Thats why we went after nash homer wants a big body winger that is a pure sniper

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06-24-2012, 12:16 PM
  #266
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Coburn+ for Ryan? That makes less sense for Philly than Anaheim now...

Agh, I like seeing good clean hockey trades. Why can't we just see something like Stastny+ for Ryan and end this madness?

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06-24-2012, 12:17 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
Arguably the dumbest logic I've heard today. Philly is not NY.
LOL! You actually think Parise will go to Philly. I hate to break it to you but he is either staying in NJ or going to the western conference.

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06-24-2012, 12:20 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
Why are you trading Voraček for Ryan then? Defies logic.

I see Ducks needing a centre is a concept hard to grasp.
I think what the poster was trying to say--or at least what I think it would be reasonable to say, is that Voracek is capable of matching Ryan's point production, but not his goal-scoring.

Voracek at his peak (and I'm not so certain this comes as early as next season), is probably capable of scoring 20-25 goals and adding 50 assists. He's a very, very good passer; not so much a shooter.

Ryan could pot 40 goals, particularly on a line with Giroux (and first-unit PP opportunities), but it wouldn't shock me if he topped out at around 35-40 assists (again, playing with Giroux, a pass-first center).

So, in that sense:

Ryan (40 / 35 / 75) is a better fit for the Flyers than "developed" Voracek (25 / 50 / 75)

I agree that the Flyers are not ideally positioned to match the Ducks needs--though, again, Matt Read is a natural center, moved to wing because the Flyers had Giroux, Briere, Schenn (also moved to wing), Couturier, and Talbot down the middle.


Last edited by Jack de la Hoya: 06-24-2012 at 12:26 PM.
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06-24-2012, 12:21 PM
  #269
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LOL! You actually think Parise will go to Philly. I hate to break it to you but he is either staying in NJ or going to the western conference.
Yeah because Jagr was going to the pens too right.

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06-24-2012, 12:22 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by CaptainScrewy View Post
I think building a package between Kulikov for Ryan would make a lot of sense for both Florida and Anaheim.
I still think if they're gonna trade Bobby, Anaheim would ****ing love Gudbranson.

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06-24-2012, 12:22 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by captain richie18 View Post
Because flyers need an absolute pure scorer. Hartnell is great and all but us sensible flyer fans cant see him consistantly putting up 37 a year. Thats why we went after nash homer wants a big body winger that is a pure sniper
You're not making much sense. Voraček will match Ryan's production, it really doesn't matter how. He's also nearly the same size as Ryan, and cheaper.

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06-24-2012, 12:23 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
Lol duck fans and their GM overrating their players. A player hits over 60 pts and 30 goals a few times is not all that rare. Stop pretending like he's crosby. The kd doesn't even want to play for anh anymore.

Given that schenn could easily hit 25 goals and 60 pts this year why would we trade him plus more?
Yeah, kid only has four consecutive years of 30 or more goals per season and people already making him out to be something so special or what. And that Schenn will easily hit 60 or more is obviously given. I mean, he only needs to triple his production from this year, easy as pie. It sort of reminds of that other kid ... what was his name? Oh yeah, JvR, who was for like three years ready to break out into consistant 80-90 points player...

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06-24-2012, 12:24 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Damn, I hope this rumor has no legs. Taken from PhilaPhans, via Orange and Black.net.


"Jeff Rimer (Blue Jackets play by play) was just on the radio here in Columbus and said he heard it will be Voracek and Coburn to Ducks for Ryan, that the Schenn trade was absolutely a precursor.


I know it's Eklund - but for what it's worth, he says "Bobby Ryan rumors heating up this morning( to the Flyers), because they now have DEF.depth that Ducks want."
Financially the deal won't work for the Ducks. Coburn makes $4.5M per season, and what do you think Voracek will get as an RFA on his next contract ? $3.5-4.5M per ? The Ducks can't take on the additional salary, especially when they still have to find their 2C somewhere.

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06-24-2012, 12:24 PM
  #274
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Our GM does love Swedish players. I'm sure Zibanejad is a great place to start. How far off would you guess that he is from the NHL? I know he had a brief stint with you guys last year.
He will play in the NHL next year he plays an abrasive style with unbelievable physical tools, he fits somewhere between Fisher and Ovechkin (i know thats a big gap but thats how he plays). He is a top 5 prospect on some peoples list and he is a top 10 on everyones list.

He just needed to work on his mental game its a big adjustment for an 18 year old to come to europe to play the North American game at such a young age.

Zibanejad and Foligno for Ryan seems like a good starting point to me.

Zibanejad, Dacosta Foligno for Ryan I think would be an even trade. Or maybe switch Dacosta for Hoffman or Petersen?

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06-24-2012, 12:24 PM
  #275
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
You're not making much sense. Voraček will match Ryan's production, it really doesn't matter how. He's also nearly the same size as Ryan, and cheaper.
Read my post above for (one) explanation of what he's saying.

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