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Ryan hopes to be traded to Flyers

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06-24-2012, 11:00 AM
  #151
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I have a feeling now that Luke Schenn was brought in, Mezsaros might be available. I know it's against the consensus around here, but he might be a bigger piece going into a Bobby Ryan deal. If the Ducks hope to build through free agency for defense, they will be really really sorry. I like Mez and I still think he can be a good #2 with the right defender. I wouldn't mind including him and our 1st rounder and some other pieces. I know I know people will say this would never happen, but homer has surprised me enough to know nothing is off the table.
I think the Flyers were always willing to include Mez in a deal, but most Anaheim fans were . . . unimpressed.

That said, with the departure of Visnovsky, they seemingly have a hole in their top-4 for a next few seasons--until Lindholm and Vatenen are ready.

Read, Mezsaros, and the 2013 1st would be on par with previous deals and give Anaheim some immediate pieces to slot in...but I doubt they go for it. If the Rangers offer Stepan, or if Nashville offers something around Colin Wilson +, etc., it becomes tricky for us to match.

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06-24-2012, 11:05 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by JoeFlyer View Post
I agree, I felt that any deal that would have been done for any big player (Nash, Ryan, Weber at a loger shot, etc.) would have required some combination of JvR, B.Schenn and Meszaros as the centrepiece. JvR has gone and that looks like it's locked up Schenn (unless both are getting moved elsewhere which seems unlikely as the move adresses some of our needs really). Couts is too valuable to the team already I think. Personally Read has too much value becuse of his contract and Voracek is RFA which I'd say lowers his value.

I'd still like to see another top mins D in (I don't think Mesz really fills any particular role, I like the guy but think you could bring someone far better for a small increse in cap hit). That maybe leaves Mesz, Simmonds and the aforementioned Read and Voracek as trade bait for players. While I'd love to have had Nash or Ryan I don't think there is really a good deal to be made there now. I'd maybe go something like Mesz + Simmonds + picks / prospects for a top D. Resign Jagr (or use UFA to plug a forward void), play Gustafsson (or another young guy - I prefer him) on the bottom pairing D.
Would be cool with that....I wanted to see Simmonds traded before JVR...he had a great year and that is the best you are going to get out of him. JVR should have been getting his pp time and he might have had 20 goals even without being healthy.

Simmonds is a tough one, doesnt have the skill to be on the top lines, but not good enough defensively for the 3rd line....I would have liked to see him with JVR/Giroux on a top line if they had kept JVR, he could have been the "Knuble/Jones" on that line but with the speed to keep up...but obviously that aint happening now.

Anyway, if we can still upgrade the defense by packaging Mez and something for someone better than Mez so be it.....of course that is just more turnover on a team that needs to stop making changes.

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06-24-2012, 11:38 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I have a feeling now that Luke Schenn was brought in, Mezsaros might be available. I know it's against the consensus around here, but he might be a bigger piece going into a Bobby Ryan deal. If the Ducks hope to build through free agency for defense, they will be really really sorry. I like Mez and I still think he can be a good #2 with the right defender. I wouldn't mind including him and our 1st rounder and some other pieces. I know I know people will say this would never happen, but homer has surprised me enough to know nothing is off the table.
i wouldnt trade mez unless they include sibsa, the flyers need that big body and if they trade away defense, they get back defense, unless one of the draft picks is nhl ready.

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06-24-2012, 11:43 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
i wouldnt trade mez unless they include sibsa, the flyers need that big body and if they trade away defense, they get back defense, unless one of the draft picks is nhl ready.
The problem with this is that Sbisa holds considerably more value than Mezsaros right now, and Mezsaros would have to be a "plus" piece in the deal to get Ryan.

To get both Ryan and Sbisa, assuming the Brothers Schenn are now an integral part of the City of Brotherly Love, you're almost certainly have to part with Voracek, Couturier, and Mezsaros. That's an abymsal deal for the Flyers--but if you look at it from the Ducks perspective,

Ryan > Voracek
Sbisa > Mezsaros

They would need a substantial incentive to make two "downgrades" on young, core pieces--and I don't think draft picks and Matt Read would do it.

I'm also not sure that Mezsaros doesn't bring more to the table for this team, the way it is constructed now, than Sbisa--he has better puck skills and a better shot. If Carle leaves, I'd expect Mez gets a pretty significant chunk of PP time on the second unit.

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06-24-2012, 11:47 AM
  #155
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Hockey Buzz Eklund ‏@Eklund
Bobby Ryan to Philly heating up.. Acquiring Luke Schenn gives flyers depth on D that anaheim needs following viz trade
that's it guys, we got him. i knew it.

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06-24-2012, 11:49 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
that's it guys, we got him. i knew it.
1. He also said, about 10 minutes before trade broke yesterday, that it WASN'T JVR for Schenn. Oops.

2. If things are heating up, then Voracek and Mez are on their way out, I assume. While I hoped that we might be able to sell them on Read, Mez, and a pick, I can't imagine that package would fly right now. Maybe in a month, after the Rangers get Nash, etc., when Anaheim has fewer other options, and the situation had deteriorated a bit further, that would be enough. I can't imagine that they would "settle" for that right now.

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06-24-2012, 11:50 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
The problem with this is that Sbisa holds considerably more value than Mezsaros right now, and Mezsaros would have to be a "plus" piece in the deal to get Ryan.

To get both Ryan and Sbisa, assuming the Brothers Schenn are now an integral part of the City of Brotherly Love, you're almost certainly have to part with Voracek, Couturier, and Mezsaros. That's an abymsal deal for the Flyers--but if you look at it from the Ducks perspective,

Ryan > Voracek
Sbisa > Mezsaros

They would need a substantial incentive to make two "downgrades" on young, core pieces--and I don't think draft picks and Matt Read would do it.

I'm also not sure that Mezsaros doesn't bring more to the table for this team, the way it is constructed now, than Sbisa--he has better puck skills and a better shot. If Carle leaves, I'd expect Mez gets a pretty significant chunk of PP time on the second unit.
Mez/Read and 2 1st round picks you don't think they would take? That seems like a lot to give up, but then again the Flyers always draft late in the drafts.

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06-24-2012, 11:50 AM
  #158
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I honestly don't understand how we can still get Bobby Ryan. I saw that latest tweet and now I'm scared... I don't want to trade Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, etc... I would have parted with Schenn for Ryan prior to the latest trade. Now that the brothers are re-united, I don't want to see him go. I think it's huge for not only Brayden, but Luke too.

So who the hell are we going to trade for Ryan? I'm okay with trading Mez to be honest, as long as we sign another D. But that isn't nearly enough...

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06-24-2012, 11:53 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
Mez/Read and 2 1st round picks you don't think they would take? That seems like a lot to give up, but then again the Flyers always draft late in the drafts.
For both Ryan and Sbisa?

No, I don't think they would take it. That doesn't mean the value isn't fair, but those picks aren't going to make a measurable impact in the NHL for, what, 4-5 years?

It seems like an overpayment "just" for Ryan, but one worth considering, since it would allow us to keep Voracek too (who I think is a perfect "good" second line wing).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brozgalov View Post
I honestly don't understand how we can still get Bobby Ryan. I saw that latest tweet and now I'm scared... I don't want to trade Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, etc... I would have parted with Schenn for Ryan prior to the latest trade. Now that the brothers are re-united, I don't want to see him go. I think it's huge for not only Brayden, but Luke too.

So who the hell are we going to trade for Ryan? I'm okay with trading Mez to be honest, as long as we sign another D. But that isn't nearly enough...
I'm fairly certain that the only reason we moved JVR to Toronto for Schenn was that Holmgren got the sense that Anaheim had very, very little interest in JVR as the centerpiece for Ryan.

Voracek + Read / Mez + 1st would have to be one of the better offers on the table for Ryan, if it was made.

As I said above, I'd like to find a way to do it that allows us to keep Jake, but I'm not certain it can be done.

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06-24-2012, 11:55 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
For both Ryan and Sbisa?

No, I don't think they would take it. That doesn't mean the value isn't fair, but those picks aren't going to make a measurable impact in the NHL for, what, 4-5 years?

It seems like an overpayment "just" for Ryan, but one worth considering, since it would allow us to keep Voracek too (who I think is a perfect "good" second line wing).
I meant just Ryan. I was also thinking of ways to keep Voracek because his play making and defensive play is amazing.

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06-24-2012, 11:58 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I'm fairly certain that the only reason we moved JVR to Toronto for Schenn was that Holmgren got the sense that Anaheim had very, very little interest in JVR as the centerpiece for Ryan.

Voracek + Read / Mez + 1st would have to be one of the better offers on the table for Ryan, if it was made.

As I said above, I'd like to find a way to do it that allows us to keep Jake, but I'm not certain it can be done.
I hear that. Trading Jake would be a huge issue for me. I think he is going to be a GREAT player in this league. He seems to love it here, and he actually comes across as a good glue guy in the locker room. He got really close with a lot of the core players here and I think he needs to stay.

If we could just trade Mez + picks for Ryan... I would be ecstatic...

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06-24-2012, 12:02 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Brozgalov View Post
I hear that. Trading Jake would be a huge issue for me. I think he is going to be a GREAT player in this league. He seems to love it here, and he actually comes across as a good glue guy in the locker room. He got really close with a lot of the core players here and I think he needs to stay.

If we could just trade Mez + picks for Ryan... I would be ecstatic...
You give to get.... saying you don't trade a Voracek for a Ryan is simply a case of fans over-valuing their own guys. I like Jake a lot, he could definitely reach a 60-70 point level... but Ryan is a 4 time 30 goal scorer who is young and would definitely take a hometown discount to play here in the future.

Voracek & Mez + is the only hope.

Mez + picks is a joke.

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06-24-2012, 12:03 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Brozgalov View Post
I hear that. Trading Jake would be a huge issue for me. I think he is going to be a GREAT player in this league. He seems to love it here, and he actually comes across as a good glue guy in the locker room. He got really close with a lot of the core players here and I think he needs to stay.

If we could just trade Mez + picks for Ryan... I would be ecstatic...
I might be Voracek's biggest fan, but if including him for Ryan as the main piece gets it done, I'd do it.

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06-24-2012, 12:05 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
You give to get.... saying you don't trade a Voracek for a Ryan is simply a case of fans over-valuing their own guys. I like Jake a lot, he could definitely reach a 60-70 point level... but Ryan is a 4 time 30 goal scorer who is young and would definitely take a hometown discount to play here in the future.

Voracek & Mez + is the only hope.

Mez + picks is a joke.
As I said above, I basically agree--but I do think there is a chance that Anaheim would prefer, say, Read + 2nd to Mezsaros--particularly if they see him a C rather than a RW.

This is tricky, but if we have option to flip Vorcaek and Mezsaros for Ryan and resign Carle at $4.25-4.5 per year (or, a modest increase over what Mez was going to make), don't we have to strongly consider it?

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06-24-2012, 12:05 PM
  #165
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too bad we dont have carle to throw in

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06-24-2012, 12:09 PM
  #166
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Eklund just tweeted that Ryan to Philly is heating up and insinuated that Schenn's presence means someone on defense is expendable now (my guess is Mez). I'd be cool dealing for Ryan then signing Carle.

Something like this maybe if Mez, Voracek + picks go out:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Jamie Langenbrunner ($3.750m)
Tom Sestito ($0.605m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Luke Schenn ($3.600m) / Matt Carle ($4.500m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Milan Jurcina ($2.800m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($0.900m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,451,944; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,848,056

I put Leighton in there just because I knew people wouldn't like it...you can replace him with any of the UFA goalies. That leaves them with around $4 million in cap space so you can upgrade either Jurican on defense or Wellwood/Sestito on offense (or just bank the money).

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06-24-2012, 12:28 PM
  #167
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I wouldn't be happy with trading Voracek, so if they did the only other piece I'd be willing to add on is Meszaros.

I'd prefer something in the neighborhood of Meszaros, Read, and a 2013 1st, but Anaheim would likely want more value.

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06-24-2012, 12:46 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
If we could get this lineup going into the season I would be very happy.
-Read/Mez/2 1sts for Ryan
-Picks/prospects for Ott

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.500m)
Steve Ott ($2.950m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Tom Sestito ($0.605m) / Paul Gaustad ($2.500m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Matt Carle ($4.250m) / Hal Gill ($2.000m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($0.900m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,121,944; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,178,056
Unless you don't play on us picking in either of the 1st two rounds until 2016, I don't see that happening. Actually, even if you do, I don't think it happens.

Let's say we offered Cousins + a 1st. By the virtue of the other deal, that first would be in, what, 2015? I'm pretty sure Dallas passes. They might want someone who will make an appearance before 2018 or so...

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06-24-2012, 12:49 PM
  #169
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Read + Mezaros + 1st + Cousins is a pretty significant offer for a player that doesn't want to play for their club. Oh and is out of the conference.

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06-24-2012, 01:04 PM
  #170
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I like Jake a lot, and if he learns to finish more often he will be one heck of a offensive player !But having said that, Ryan can finish now and already is one heck of a offensive player.....Pretty cut and dry decision in my book ?

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06-24-2012, 01:07 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by SgtJoseph View Post
I like Jake a lot, and if he learns to finish more often he will be one heck of a offensive player !But having said that, Ryan can finish now and already is one heck of a offensive player.....Pretty cut and dry decision in my book ?
It depends on what we add to Voracek for Ryan, no?

No one here, I assume, would turn down a straight swap. It's the "plus" that we're hung up on.

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06-24-2012, 01:17 PM
  #172
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Talk that Coburn is included in the deal for Ryan.

If that happens I will break things. But it just makes too much sense for ana.

Coburn + Read for Ryan.

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06-24-2012, 01:17 PM
  #173
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Read, Mez and a 1st is all I'd do. I've never seen a 60-65 point wing get so overvauled.

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06-24-2012, 01:17 PM
  #174
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What is Ryan's defence like? And people seriously are okay with giving Mez to Ana and signing Carle?? I've rarely seen Ryan play, how does he compare with Voracek?

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06-24-2012, 01:19 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Talk that Coburn is included in the deal for Ryan.

If that happens I will break things. But it just makes too much sense for ana.

Coburn + Read for Ryan.
I'd be super pissed.

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