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06-24-2012, 01:19 PM
  #201
Devastate
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We'd be a significantly worse team if we trade voracek and coburn for Ryan, especially defensively.

Big boss man said that defense was going to be our primary focus, so trading coborn is a HUGE problem.

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06-24-2012, 01:29 PM
  #202
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i say mez and a first at the most why over pay for a guy who wants out ?

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06-24-2012, 01:31 PM
  #203
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I'm not going to worry about Coburn being traded because I think there's literally a 0% chance of it happening. I'd trade Carle, Mesz, or any lesser defencemen. I'd trade Read, Voracek, or any lesser forward.

I really, really, don't think Coburn has any shot of getting traded. Carter and Richards were traded for off-ice issues which are well documented and accounted for, JVR was traded for being expendable and under producing, Coburn doesn't satisfy either of those.

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06-24-2012, 01:31 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by G Money View Post
i say mez and a first at the most why over pay for a guy who wants out ?
Yea not thats it's the same bit look at what lindros got in rerturn. Value starts going way down

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06-24-2012, 01:51 PM
  #205
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If they trade Coburn they better find a D to replace him. He may be inconsistent during the season but come playoff time Coburn is one of our best d-men on the team. Ryan is a top talent so they will have to give to get.

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06-24-2012, 01:52 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G Money View Post
i say mez and a first at the most why over pay for a guy who wants out ?
No way the Ducks do that. Mez is an over paid number 4-5 d-man and the 1st rounder would be a late round pick.

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Old
06-24-2012, 02:11 PM
  #207
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Meszaros, Read, Cousins and a 1st for Ryan.

You then make a huge play for suter, seeing as the rumors about him not wanting to play in the east may be exaggerated.

The NHL network was saying last night that the Red Wings, the Flyers, the Wild and the Rangers are the front runners.

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06-24-2012, 02:21 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Meszaros, Read, Cousins and a 1st for Ryan.

You then make a huge play for suter, seeing as the rumors about him not wanting to play in the east may be exaggerated.

The NHL network was saying last night that the Red Wings, the Flyers, the Wild and the Rangers are the front runners.
You're either overvaluing our guys or undervaluing Ryan. I'd love it if they accepted that deal, but come on. Ryan is 30+ goal scorer with even higher potential. Mez is a defender who when he is on is very good, but hasn't been on in quite some time and is coming off back surgery. Cousins, from what I have head about him, projects to be a at best a third line center. The first will likely be in the second half of the round.

This would be a bad, bad deal for the Ducks. Read will not replace Ryan (now or in the future). Mez may help the defense out, but he's not fixing any major problems they have. Cousins may never step foot on NHL ice, and at best I'd guess he isn't going to be ready until at least next year. If the Flyers want Ryan, and it sounds like they do, it's going to cost them Voracek or Coburn. Why? Because that is fair value.

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06-24-2012, 02:22 PM
  #209
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It would be surprising to see anythig happen prior to the opening of FA season.
If the Flyers get Suter than Coburn could go. It seems like a bad idea though if they don't get him... why trade your fastest d man?
Mez, 1st in 2013 (can't trade 2014 because we host the draft) and Read is the most I'd give up. Our recent #1 could be in play too.
I know that seems light but that's where I would be.
.

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06-24-2012, 02:35 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
You're either overvaluing our guys or undervaluing Ryan. I'd love it if they accepted that deal, but come on. Ryan is 30+ goal scorer with even higher potential. Mez is a defender who when he is on is very good, but hasn't been on in quite some time and is coming off back surgery. Cousins, from what I have head about him, projects to be a at best a third line center. The first will likely be in the second half of the round.

This would be a bad, bad deal for the Ducks. Read will not replace Ryan (now or in the future). Mez may help the defense out, but he's not fixing any major problems they have. Cousins may never step foot on NHL ice, and at best I'd guess he isn't going to be ready until at least next year. If the Flyers want Ryan, and it sounds like they do, it's going to cost them Voracek or Coburn. Why? Because that is fair value.
Yeah I'm aware that any deal for Ryan would likely need to include 1 of Coburn or Voracek. I'm just hoping that the Ducks become eager to move him with everything that's been said

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06-24-2012, 02:44 PM
  #211
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They could afford to trade Vora if they sign Parenteau I suppose.

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06-24-2012, 02:44 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Yeah I'm aware that any deal for Ryan would likely need to include 1 of Coburn or Voracek. I'm just hoping that the Ducks become eager to move him with everything that's been said
Even if they become eager to move him, there are no shortage of teams that would offer a better package. It would be one thing if this were a Staal situation where he seemed hellbent on playing in Philly and had a single year remaining until unrestricted free agency. He has 3 years left and I suspect any number of teams would give up more than a Philly package that didn't include at least one of Voracek/Coburn/B.Schenn/Couturier.

Read and Mez, both 2 years from Free Agency themselves, aren't centerpieces for a Bobby Ryan trade. They are the sweeteners.

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06-24-2012, 02:48 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Jumping View Post
It would be surprising to see anythig happen prior to the opening of FA season.
If the Flyers get Suter than Coburn could go. It seems like a bad idea though if they don't get him... why trade your fastest d man?
Mez, 1st in 2013 (can't trade 2014 because we host the draft) and Read is the most I'd give up. Our recent #1 could be in play too.
I know that seems light but that's where I would be.
.
What would be equivalent to what the Flyers got for Carter?

Voracek > then #8 pick this season but lets say for arguement that the vaule is equal.
Mez = value of Voracek? Maybe close. Read's value despite a great rookie season isn't there.
Flyer's 1st rd pick > then CLB 2nd rd pick.

I like Voracek a lot but at some point how much can you pay a guy to play your 3rd line that hasn't trouble cracking 20 goals on the 3rd highest scoring team in the league. Ryan

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06-24-2012, 02:55 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
What would be equivalent to what the Flyers got for Carter?

Voracek > then #8 pick this season but lets say for arguement that the vaule is equal.
Mez = value of Voracek? Maybe close. Read's value despite a great rookie season isn't there.
Flyer's 1st rd pick > then CLB 2nd rd pick.

I like Voracek a lot but at some point how much can you pay a guy to play your 3rd line that hasn't trouble cracking 20 goals on the 3rd highest scoring team in the league. Ryan
The Jeff Carter trade is a good parallel, but it's easier to just to scratch Voracek from both deals for comparisons sake because I would argue that while he got slightly better and is more experienced, he's also going to cost more and be 1 year closer to free agency, so let's call him the wash.

So, is Mezsaros and our 2013 1st rounder = the number 8 overall in the same year? It's close, but I bet Anahiem could still be looking for a tad more.

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06-24-2012, 02:57 PM
  #215
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Idk how read's value is being so undervalued, maybe Im out to lunch but ANH is a team on a budget. Read hit 24 goals last year and just short of 50 points and has 2 or 3 years whatever it is on a contract making 900k a year getting 3rd and 4th line minutes and 2nd PP time with injuries as well as playing on the PK. That's basically 10 points less then what Ryan gives you with less ice time and at a 1/5 of the cap hit.

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06-24-2012, 03:06 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Idk how read's value is being so undervalued, maybe Im out to lunch but ANH is a team on a budget. Read hit 24 goals last year and just short of 50 points and has 2 or 3 years whatever it is on a contract making 900k a year getting 3rd and 4th line minutes and 2nd PP time with injuries as well as playing on the PK. That's basically 10 points less then what Ryan gives you with less ice time and at a 1/5 of the cap hit.
I think a lot of Read's value has to do with the fact that he is not a proven commodity. I'm not saying he won't repeat his numbers, because it is certainly possible, even for him to exceed those numbers. But realistically you look at a guy like Read, who wasn't drafted, doesn't have that super-star pedigree, and played in a high-powered offense and put up good numbers in his first season, there is a level of risk involved because he hasn't done it consistently. If he puts up those numbers again this year, then Read's value will skyrocket. But right now there are still a lot of skeptical people out there who may label his season a fluke. Justified or not, I think that is a big reason behind.

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06-24-2012, 03:21 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I think a lot of Read's value has to do with the fact that he is not a proven commodity. I'm not saying he won't repeat his numbers, because it is certainly possible, even for him to exceed those numbers. But realistically you look at a guy like Read, who wasn't drafted, doesn't have that super-star pedigree, and played in a high-powered offense and put up good numbers in his first season, there is a level of risk involved because he hasn't done it consistently. If he puts up those numbers again this year, then Read's value will skyrocket. But right now there are still a lot of skeptical people out there who may label his season a fluke. Justified or not, I think that is a big reason behind.
He's also 25 years old and 2 years from unrestricted free agency. He's a good player, but as an asset, he holds significantly less value than guys under team control for longer at younger ages. Far from a throw-in, but not gonna be a guy that teams are going to want to build a deal around for a known commodity like Ryan.

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06-24-2012, 04:56 PM
  #218
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How the **** is Ryan worth this much? Just straight silly talk right now. I like the guy, but Jesus Christ. The Ducks seemingly want equal to the Pens for Staal.

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06-24-2012, 05:12 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
How the **** is Ryan worth this much? Just straight silly talk right now. I like the guy, but Jesus Christ. The Ducks seemingly want equal to the Pens for Staal.
They should want a lot for a 25-year-old, 30-35 goalscoring winger on a nice contract for three more years. It probably won't work out with the pieces they want and the pieces we would be willing to give up.

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06-24-2012, 05:17 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
How the **** is Ryan worth this much? Just straight silly talk right now. I like the guy, but Jesus Christ. The Ducks seemingly want equal to the Pens for Staal.
Wait, you think Staal who refused to sign, was one year away from Free Agency, and who has been outscored by Ryan 249-178 over the last 4 seasons should command more than Ryan?

You do realize that Bobby Ryan is really, really good right and signed to an extremely reasonable deal for 3 more seasons, right?

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06-24-2012, 05:31 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
He's also 25 years old and 2 years from unrestricted free agency. He's a good player, but as an asset, he holds significantly less value than guys under team control for longer at younger ages. Far from a throw-in, but not gonna be a guy that teams are going to want to build a deal around for a known commodity like Ryan.

His cap hit also makes him extremely valuable to an upper limit team like the Flyers, but not nearly so much to the Ducks. Doesn't make much sense to include him.

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06-24-2012, 05:34 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Talk that Coburn is included in the deal for Ryan.

If that happens I will break things. But it just makes too much sense for ana.

Coburn + Read for Ryan.
Moving Coburn? Makes no sense to me

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06-24-2012, 05:42 PM
  #223
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We did just give Coburn an extension, it only makes sense that they'd deal him.

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06-24-2012, 05:55 PM
  #224
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While we Flyers fans can debate over Read vs Voracek all day, the fact is we over-value our own guys just like any other fanbase does. I think Voracek, regardless on skill level, holds significantly more value than Read. Voracek is a RFA and is on pace for a raise, maybe minimal this year but a decent hike down the road. I think moving Voracek + would be amazing for the Flyers, and we would be fortunate for the Ducks to take a similar package. Voracek + Mez + Gus + picks or another prospect would be a great deal for us. We would create some cap space and solidify our top line with a proven scorer.

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06-24-2012, 06:00 PM
  #225
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Yea no thanks to moving anyone on our defense unless we sign Suter. We just upgraded the core with Schenn no need to bring it back back to where it was.

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