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Worried about Pens freeing cap space?

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06-24-2012, 01:20 PM
  #26
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I guess you have to ask yourself this, Crosby and Malkin are likely looking at 9.5 to 10 million dollar deals. Letang and MAF are going to be due raises. I think they can get one not both and Suter has shot down all East rumors.

I don't discount the Pens, I just think these moves were made to free up cap space for their own guys. Not to mention I have always thought Nash and Crosby have a pretty good history together, it would not surprise me if that is the move they are freeing assets up for. I don't know if they have enough, but what Shero is doing is preparing for the uncertainty of the potential lockout and knowing he needs flexibility with the cap.

He was heading towards a Blackhawks situation so it would be interesting if he freed all this cash up then locked himself into a tough cap position by doing a Hossa type deal and pushing himself to the cap in a bad way which a double swoop would probably be for the Pens. He might do it, he might get one of them or he is just preparing for all the raises that are staring him in the face.

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06-24-2012, 01:29 PM
  #27
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I like how in this thread, GMs are now being evaluated based on rumors of things they might do.
Why do you think Holland gets such a bad rap?

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06-24-2012, 01:37 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
I guess you have to ask yourself this, Crosby and Malkin are likely looking at 9.5 to 10 million dollar deals. Letang and MAF are going to be due raises. I think they can get one not both and Suter has shot down all East rumors.

I don't discount the Pens, I just think these moves were made to free up cap space for their own guys. Not to mention I have always thought Nash and Crosby have a pretty good history together, it would not surprise me if that is the move they are freeing assets up for. I don't know if they have enough, but what Shero is doing is preparing for the uncertainty of the potential lockout and knowing he needs flexibility with the cap.

He was heading towards a Blackhawks situation so it would be interesting if he freed all this cash up then locked himself into a tough cap position by doing a Hossa type deal and pushing himself to the cap in a bad way which a double swoop would probably be for the Pens. He might do it, he might get one of them or he is just preparing for all the raises that are staring him in the face.
not to mention, there's the strong possibility that the cap will be lowered after the new cba.

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06-24-2012, 01:39 PM
  #29
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I'm not saying we shouldn't consider the Penguins competition for Free Agents, saying they aren't would be sticking my head in the sand.

I'm just responding to the people saying Shero is a better GM than Holland because he's managed to free up 14 million in space, while not acknowledging that Holland has more space, less spots to fill, and a better track record of re-tooling a team than Shero.
nah. some people are just upset that holland hasn't overpaid to get suter or parise's rights yet

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06-24-2012, 02:14 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Suter already said he doesn't want to play for any Eastern teams. And they can go ahead and sign Parise. Parise on Crosby's wing? Sure. But how much of that time will be spent on Sutter's wing, because Crosby will be injured?

Its not like having Hossa on Crosby's wing equated to world domination, and Hossa was better then than Parise now.
I honestly think they have just as good as a chance to land either of them as we do. And yes, Suter said he wouldn't want to go East, but that may change when a team with the best core suddenly can offer you just as much money. Not sure why everyone will be "afraid" though. It isn't 2008, if this happens it doesnt affect the Wings really at all more than them losing out on Parise/Suter in free agency. If the Pens get them, and the Wing's don't it's not like we are going to have to worry about making the finals anyways.

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06-24-2012, 02:18 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
They can get one of the two, it is interesting that Suter appears by most reports to be the guy they are genuinely into. If you believe the he wants play in the west it is a too bad for the Pens situation. Either way they needed to free money for Crosby and Malkin. Even with Crosby's injury situation those discussions have started, maybe Shero knows he is getting a raise.

All these reports that they are dumping Paul Martin seem a little off. He is the guy fans want moved but in reality that is a tough sell.
This is true. I suspect that's why they tried to get Staal nailed down to a 10 year deal so they knew how much money they would have available to sign Sid and Geno. Both players are MVPs so they deserve to be among the highest salaries in the league. They could easily both be $10+ million guys.

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06-24-2012, 02:25 PM
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The reason why people say Shero greater than Holland is because he identified a want or wants and made the moves to achieve it. It's called being proactive. Put it this way, if Holland did not have all this space would he have been as aggresive in pursuing the free agents? No way

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06-24-2012, 02:31 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Booyah! View Post
The reason why people say Shero greater than Holland is because he identified a want or wants and made the moves to achieve it. It's called being proactive. Put it this way, if Holland did not have all this space would he have been as aggresive in pursuing the free agents? No way
As aggressive? The only guy we're guaranteed to sign at this point is Brunner. Having space is a pre-requisite but we haven't actually reeled in Ryan Suter or Zach Parise or Alexander Semin or Justin Schultz just yet. No need to get butt hurt, some of us are looking at what the Pens are doing and are a bit concerned because Shero is a good GM and I have to imagine the prospect of playing with Crosby and Malkin would appeal to many top flight UFAs.

That's why some of us wanted to try to get a guy's rights prior to July 1st. Ken Holland said he'd be willing to make those kind of trades but it hasn't happened yet. That's not a criticism, that's just reality. So we wait and see.

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06-24-2012, 02:45 PM
  #34
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You're missing my point. What I am saying is that Shero has been aggressive leading up to free agency to put his team in a position to be able to add 2 premiere free agents. I can't imagine Holland being as aggressive to put himself in a position to do the same thing. Shero is being proactive and aggressive, that is why he's getting the kudos.

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06-24-2012, 02:55 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Booyah! View Post
You're missing my point. What I am saying is that Shero has been aggressive leading up to free agency to put his team in a position to be able to add 2 premiere free agents. I can't imagine Holland being as aggressive to put himself in a position to do the same thing. Shero is being proactive and aggressive, that is why he's getting the kudos.
Shero actually has assets other teams want. Holland doesn't need to be aggressive. He just had 7 million freed up from Lidstrom retiring.

I don't really see what people are freaking out about over Holland here. Do you really want to trade a good, young prospect (something this team needs) for six days of Zach Parise or Ryan Suter?

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06-24-2012, 02:56 PM
  #36
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I'll never get the Pittsburgh love. They got gifted the two best draft players (Crosby and Malkin) of the last 15 years and we're supposed to pretend it's been Shero's amazing GM work that built a champion.

He's done pretty good trying to compliment those guys, but let's stop pretending their success didn't come from 4-5 years of getting #1 and #2 picks.

Give Detroit a few years of #1 picks and see what happens.

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06-24-2012, 03:04 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Claypool View Post
Shero actually has assets other teams want. Holland doesn't need to be aggressive. He just had 7 million freed up from Lidstrom retiring.

I don't really see what people are freaking out about over Holland here. Do you really want to trade a good, young prospect (something this team needs) for six days of Zach Parise or Ryan Suter?
Not my point. I actually happen to think the wings will get Suter so they don't need to do anything. Again you also are missing my point. Shero was proactive in getting his team in a position to acquire top notch ufas this year. Holland in the SAME position would NOT have done the same thing. Coincidence gives Holland the opportunity to be a player this July 1st while Shero was proactive enough to make it happen.

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06-24-2012, 03:10 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Claypool View Post
Shero actually has assets other teams want. Holland doesn't need to be aggressive. He just had 7 million freed up from Lidstrom retiring.

I don't really see what people are freaking out about over Holland here. Do you really want to trade a good, young prospect (something this team needs) for six days of Zach Parise or Ryan Suter?
If situations were reversed, and Pens had loads of space already and Wings had a bit of space, and some not-so-hot contracts, Holland would not be trading away defensemen and centres (who are quite good) for cap space to fill those holes with better players. Holland would just ride it out and sign a few role players and guys who should just retire but want to cling on to hockey and $.

Although, this isn't a knock on Holland. He has never really needed to do this / had the situation arise, but when similar sort of situations arose (last summer the team needed to improve and it didn't) Holland just signed Ian White and whoever else. The free agent market was bad, but he didn't make a trade either(Burns).

In an ideal world, your GM is in between Holland and Shero, staying calm but making moves when they need to be made. I just hope Holland really delivers next week.

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06-24-2012, 03:11 PM
  #39
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Not my point. I actually happen to think the wings will get Suter so they don't need to do anything. Again you also are missing my point. Shero was proactive in getting his team in a position to acquire top notch ufas this year. Holland in the SAME position would NOT have done the same thing. Coincidence gives Holland the opportunity to be a player this July 1st while Shero was proactive enough to make it happen.
This is some silly goose logic.

Holland specifically didn't overpay for free agents the last few years so he'd have flexibility in the future. In every single trade and free agency period he's always talking about how it fits to the future. Last year nobody was out there that he wanted to blow all his cash on. Now this year is different and we're finding ways to criticize him by calling it a coincidence?

When Holland doesn't act, people get annoyed. Now that inaction has lead to a ton of cap space during a strong free agency and that's considered coincidence and... people get annoyed.

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06-24-2012, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Megan Foxs Thumbs View Post
I just hope Holland really delivers next week.
IF he doesn't then everybody can go wild with criticism. But this preemptive bashing based upon pure speculation is foolish.

I hope all the people here patting Shero on the back will be throwing him through the woodchipper if the Pens don't land anybody of significance.

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06-24-2012, 03:14 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
I'll never get the Pittsburgh love. They got gifted the two best draft players (Crosby and Malkin) of the last 15 years and we're supposed to pretend it's been Shero's amazing GM work that built a champion.

He's done pretty good trying to compliment those guys, but let's stop pretending their success didn't come from 4-5 years of getting #1 and #2 picks.

Give Detroit a few years of #1 picks and see what happens.
The Neal trade is really the only amazing thing Shero has done and that is more because Joe N in Dallas is not a very good GM.

By the way also find it curious how exactly has proactive Shero's teams been out performing the Wings the last couple of years? They basically have the same five year results. One cup, Two Finals and disappointment the last three years.

It seems people will do anything to take shots at Holland. It is kind of absurd especially without knowing who is going where. If he signs for instance Suter, Semin, Schultz and Brunner isn't that better than just Suter and Parise? I would thank the Pens if that is how it plays out and they get Parise. Especially after we flip a couple players for draft picks in 2013. It also means we don't have to have big worries about signing Fil and Howard.

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06-24-2012, 03:17 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
This is some silly goose logic.

Holland specifically didn't overpay for free agents the last few years so he'd have flexibility in the future. In every single trade and free agency period he's always talking about how it fits to the future. Last year nobody was out there that he wanted to blow all his cash on. Now this year is different and we're finding ways to criticize him by calling it a coincidence?

When Holland doesn't act, people get annoyed. Now that inaction has lead to a ton of cap space during a strong free agency and that's considered coincidence and... people get annoyed.
They want drama and new toys and news to look forward to. If they don't get it, it's RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.

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06-24-2012, 03:19 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
The Neal trade is really the only amazing thing Shero has done and that is more because Joe N in Dallas is not a very good GM.
It's also because Dallas was cash strapped. They knew Neal would get a huge contract coming up and they couldn't afford it, along with Niskanen. That's why both were included. The difference between them and Goligoski is probably going to work out to $3-4 million a year. Seems like peanuts... unless you're broke.

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06-24-2012, 03:30 PM
  #44
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Not my point. I actually happen to think the wings will get Suter so they don't need to do anything. Again you also are missing my point. Shero was proactive in getting his team in a position to acquire top notch ufas this year. Holland in the SAME position would NOT have done the same thing. Coincidence gives Holland the opportunity to be a player this July 1st while Shero was proactive enough to make it happen.
You mean if Holland had a team like Pittburgh's? I don't understand what you're talking about.

Shero offered Staal a 10-year deal, he didn't want it, so Pittsburgh dumped him for cheaper, younger talent. That's why they're in the position to sign Parise or Suter. Shero wasn't being proactive at all. In fact, you could say it's coincidental.

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06-24-2012, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
IF he doesn't then everybody can go wild with criticism. But this preemptive bashing based upon pure speculation is foolish.

I hope all the people here patting Shero on the back will be throwing him through the woodchipper if the Pens don't land anybody of significance.
Shero shouldnt be raised to the rafters simply because he free'd up cap space, it should be because he traded a current good asset for two future good assets that ALSO put himself in a better position to improve in other ways whether it be to sign a semin or parise or neither but yet still allow him to retain his core superstars all the while having Sutter and the 8th overall pick/player

its that forward thinking that should win him some accolades

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06-24-2012, 03:47 PM
  #46
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You gotta think there's a little backwards logic going on here. Shero didn't intend on doing this thing that he's getting praised for, he tried to do something else. It does in fact matter why, because we're discussing not events by themselves but the merits of Shero's management skills. That Caroline trade made itself once Staal made it clear he wanted to go there and wouldn't resign anywhere else. Any GM with a functioning brain could've swung that deal.

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06-24-2012, 03:48 PM
  #47
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If they managed to resign Crosby and bring in both Suter and Parise, they will have to make more financial decisions.

I'll say if the two sign one of the two, it will be Parise. Would make more sense as Crosby is nearly Lindros-fragile

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06-24-2012, 03:53 PM
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You gotta think there's a little backwards logic going on here. Shero didn't intend on doing this thing that he's getting praised for, he tried to do something else. It does in fact matter why, because we're discussing not events by themselves but the merits of Shero's management skills. That Caroline trade made itself once Staal made it clear he wanted to go there and wouldn't resign anywhere else. Any GM with a functioning brain could've swung that deal.
it dosent matter why he traded staal, it dosent matter why any GM trades any player, all that matters are the results of that trade, thats what the GM is judged on and not the circumstances leading up to the trade

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06-24-2012, 03:57 PM
  #49
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Uhhh...why not? We're clearly not judging the results on their own, we're discussing Shero himself and like I said, the merits of his management skills. I thought my post was pretty clear. You don't just blindly ignore the context and events surrounding the whole thing. That's just willful ignorance.

It's even crazier that it was brought up when comparing Shero to Holland (or any GM of any other team). Shero had to do that. We don't have a player who turned down a 10 year offer to play with his brothers. And if we did and our guy was worth it, we'd get that deal too.

Bring up other trades or signings, because this one is pretty much one of those deals where the hardest part was finding a pen to sign it with.

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06-24-2012, 03:58 PM
  #50
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it dosent matter why he traded staal, it dosent matter why any GM trades any player, all that matters are the results of that trade, thats what the GM is judged on and not the circumstances leading up to the trade
Well seeing as there hasn't been a single game played since the trade happened, shouldn't we wait to heap praise or criticism on Shero?

For all we know Pittsburgh could be shut out in free agency and Carolina could pass them in the standings.

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