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The Offseason Thread Part IX: Howson often gives nuts to toothless people

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06-24-2012, 07:25 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff? Just about all the young guys will be a little better this season...and we have all year to make a trade if needed.
So in other words, you believe we should stand pat and put the same lineup on the ice in october(assuming there's no lockout) minus Gaborik who will be recovering and we should be good to go?
I really don't know how much of a difference or improvement an additional year of development is going to make in the overall games of Del Zotto, Stepan, Anisimov and whomever else you may be talking about.
It doesn't always work out that way!

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06-24-2012, 07:26 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
Which is what he should make sure happens, as he usually does.
So he wants to steal Nash or Ryan like he got lucky with the mcdonagh throw in?

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06-24-2012, 07:28 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
It's like our players are rare coins and everyone wants to hold onto them! Wake up
Yep. You can now find DZ, Stepan and Anisimov in your nearest numismatic dealer at the mall.

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06-24-2012, 07:28 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
So in other words, you believe we should stand pat and put the same lineup on the ice in october(assuming there's no lockout) minus Gaborik who will be recovering and we should be good to go?
I really don't know how much of a difference or improvement an additional year of development is going to make in the overall games of Del Zotto, Stepan, Anisimov and whomever else you may be talking about.
It doesn't always work out that way!
its possible we can last til the deadline even without Gabs, but what makes anyone think Sather will do anything than? I've given up on new York sports trades, between the Yankees and Rangers, they always complain the price is too high

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06-24-2012, 07:30 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Yep. You can now find DZ, Stepan and Anisimov in your nearest numismatic dealer at the mall.
That's def not true, stepan and del zotto are two very good young players.

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06-24-2012, 07:31 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
So he wants to steal Nash or Ryan like he got lucky with the mcdonagh throw in?
Nope, it just takes the tired, old man(Savior) longer to move because his bones are brittle and may fall apart if he moves to fast.

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06-24-2012, 07:32 PM
  #932
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Yup and that's the problem. Most of the time, especially with stars, u don't win deals you need to give up talent the other way. That is basically the same as being scared to make the big move
Glen Sather isn't afraid to make a move, relax. Yeah you can't win them all but you can at least feel like you weren't bent over. Which is what Howson wants Sather to feel. If Howson's demands drop and they probably will Sather will make that trade.

He's made plenty of trades in his lifetime, including being forced to trade Gretzky.

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06-24-2012, 07:36 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
its possible we can last til the deadline even without Gabs, but what makes anyone think Sather will do anything than? I've given up on new York sports trades, between the Yankees and Rangers, they always complain the price is too high
I agree with your point about NY sports trades but lumping the evil dynasty(Yanks) in with the Rangers is unfair since the Yanks can still spend like drunken sailors in the only sport with no salary cap + a stupid old fool for a commissioner who's actually worse than Bettman is!

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06-24-2012, 07:38 PM
  #934
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Look I will be the first one to admit I don't want to trade kreider or stepan. But u still get a Rick Nash or bobby Ryan back. And almost everybody on the CBJ board would do one of those + dubi and a pick or prospect. Take away all the hype of kreider and think to yourself, that's too much for a guaranteed 30-40 goal scorer with talent?

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06-24-2012, 07:41 PM
  #935
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It's kind of hilarious that Sather's getting beat up for not trading for a star. I guess 2004 was 8 years ago.

We are going to get some guys July 1. CBA will get settled within 3-6 months. The dust will settle and then guys will become available again. Thornton got traded a few months after the season started in 2005. Carter was a trade deadline move. That's 2 big time scorers getting moved in November and February. Lesson is don't panic.

Also, Boston called SJ when Thornton was going to get moved. They saw some assets (in the other conference) and sought the trade out. If I'm not wrong, Philly called Columbus and LA about Richards and Carter. We have a crazy prospect pool. Someone's going to call about our supply of cheap, young talent. Ribiero was moved for cap space and youth. A move like that for us would be huge, secondary scoring could've gotten us a cup this season. If a lunatic wasn't running Columbus, we would have gotten Nash in Feb (with the prorated cap hit) for Dubinsky, Thomas and a first.

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06-24-2012, 07:41 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
That's def not true, stepan and del zotto are two very good young players.
I do agree that they're both very good young players but if for argument sake DZ doesn't find a brain and Stepan doesn't drastically improve his skating, strength, stamina and intestinal fortitude, then both of those players have an opportunity next year to only be a year older and that's it.
There are no guarantees that both their careers won't plateau.

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06-24-2012, 07:45 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
It's kind of hilarious that Sather's getting beat up for not trading for a star. I guess 2004 was 8 years ago..
Really funny actually.

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06-24-2012, 07:45 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
It's kind of hilarious that Sather's getting beat up for not trading for a star. I guess 2004 was 8 years ago.

We are going to get some guys July 1. CBA will get settled within 3-6 months. The dust will settle and then guys will become available again. Thornton got traded a few months after the season started in 2005. Carter was a trade deadline move. That's 2 big time scorers getting moved in November and February. Lesson is don't panic.

Also, Boston called SJ when Thornton was going to get moved. They saw some assets (in the other conference) and sought the trade out. If I'm not wrong, Philly called Columbus and LA about Richards and Carter. We have a crazy prospect pool. Someone's going to call about our supply of cheap, young talent. Ribiero was moved for cap space and youth. A move like that for us would be huge, secondary scoring could've gotten us a cup this season. If a lunatic wasn't running Columbus, we would have gotten Nash in Feb (with the prorated cap hit) for Dubinsky, Thomas and a first.
not saying we have to do something NOW but I always hear nope the price is too high and about half of the roster is unavailable according to Sather so how is time going to change that? Unless u think howson will end up taking peanuts for Nash

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06-24-2012, 07:49 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Look I will be the first one to admit I don't want to trade kreider or stepan. But u still get a Rick Nash or bobby Ryan back. And almost everybody on the CBJ board would do one of those + dubi and a pick or prospect. Take away all the hype of kreider and think to yourself, that's too much for a guaranteed 30-40 goal scorer with talent?
Pre cap era, it's still a debate. Iginla for Nieuwindyke. Krieder and Nash aren't those guys, but it's a similar ratio. But that is neither here or there. It's a new set of rules. I'll gamble that Kreider is getting about 20 goals for around $2m. Nash we would pray could score 40 for the 3rd time in 10 years, for $7.8m.

Take away all the hype of Nash and think to yourself, that's 20 extra goals for $6.8m more. Not to mention the other entry level contract year, and the other 5 restricted years. Nash will be done before Kreider hits the open market.

Malkin is getting an extra $1.2m and putting up double Nash. Either Malkin deserves a hell of a lot more or Nash is getting too much.

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06-24-2012, 07:49 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
The Rangers are not winning a cup with all home grown players. The kings made a great trade turned their offense around and won the cup. Sadly Rangers don't have the gonads to do the same
I never said they were going to win with all home grown players. Re-read what I wrote.

I inferred that right now is not the right moment to make a big trade as the players everyone keeps talking about either don't want to be here or would be coming at a cost greater to the current team than their value.

So, it's not about gonads at all. It's about being smart.

The kings were able to make the Richards trade because they only lost 1 Roster player Wayne Simmonds, 1 prospect Schenn, and a 2nd round pick in this past draft (not a great draft at all).

The equivalent CBJ/NYR deal could be Dubinsky, one of JT Miller or Erixon and next year's first round. That's fair.

Dubi and Simmonds are close to a wash (Simmonds is much cheaper, but Dubi can play in every situation), Schenn may become better than Miller or Erixon, but a 1st (somewhere between #15-30) in next year's deeper draft is much better than a 2nd in this past year's draft (#60 pick).

Problem is, Howson wants for 4 or 5 players AND/OR Stepan, Kreider included.

I think we all agree we will need to obtain (trade, FA or develop) 2 more Top 6 forwards (one could be a Ray Whitney type, the other more elite) and 1 PPQB Defenseman to get to the next level.

But you can't go creating other, bigger holes, just to fill a need. I would not go trading Krieder or Stepan in either of these trades simply because we will back in the same spot we're already in - we'll still have just 4 top-6 forwards and we'll still be struggling to score.

Until other teams sees one of our prospects like Miller, Thomas, St. Croix, Fast as enough value, then there's probably not going to be a trade that works for us.

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06-24-2012, 07:50 PM
  #941
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Sign Suter, Trade Staal.

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06-24-2012, 07:51 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
not saying we have to do something NOW but I always hear nope the price is too high and about half of the roster is unavailable according to Sather so how is time going to change that? Unless u think howson will end up taking peanuts for Nash
Let's not let Howson off the hot-seat. There were other names thrown around which were considered low-ball offers from Sather, but Sather budged. We don't know if Howson attempted to meet Sather half-way, but we do know what Howson wanted was straight-up lunacy.

And honestly, if Anaheim and Columbus are going to ask for an arm, a leg, and a head from other teams, I say we walk away.

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06-24-2012, 07:52 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Sign Suter, Trade Staal.
I'm for this!, suter not coming though, but I would love to get him and move staal for Ryan

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06-24-2012, 07:53 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
not saying we have to do something NOW but I always hear nope the price is too high and about half of the roster is unavailable according to Sather so how is time going to change that? Unless u think howson will end up taking peanuts for Nash
Howson will end up taking a hockey deal for Nash. Sather says a lot about the core being untouchable, some of that is him fluffing up his own players stock. Anyone can be traded in the right deal. The longer this drags out the lower Nash's return will be.

They've already agreed to part ways, Howson has already mismanaged the situation and eventually ownership will say let's get this over with, or Nash and his agent will really put the pressure on.

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06-24-2012, 07:54 PM
  #945
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Del zotto is a big chip is he available for a forward? Not neccesarily nash or ryan since neither team needs him

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06-24-2012, 07:56 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Pre cap era, it's still a debate. Iginla for Nieuwindyke. Krieder and Nash aren't those guys, but it's a similar ratio. But that is neither here or there. It's a new set of rules. I'll gamble that Kreider is getting about 20 goals for around $2m. Nash we would pray could score 40 for the 3rd time in 10 years, for $7.8m.

Take away all the hype of Nash and think to yourself, that's 20 extra goals for $6.8m more. Not to mention the other entry level contract year, and the other 5 restricted years. Nash will be done before Kreider hits the open market.

Malkin is getting an extra $1.2m and putting up double Nash. Either Malkin deserves a hell of a lot more or Nash is getting too much.
I'm not saying I would do one of them, but just making a point. If its one young impact player dubi and a pick ignoring everything else, that's not overpayment

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06-24-2012, 07:58 PM
  #947
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Look I will be the first one to admit I don't want to trade kreider or stepan. But u still get a Rick Nash or bobby Ryan back. And almost everybody on the CBJ board would do one of those + dubi and a pick or prospect. Take away all the hype of kreider and think to yourself, that's too much for a guaranteed 30-40 goal scorer with talent?
So Kreider, Dubi, a pick and a prospect for Nash? That's seems acceptable to you? Your vastly overrating Nash.

You realize you're getting a 35 goal scorer with a terrible contract and not Wayne Gretzky, right?

No more than 3 assets for Nash. Here's my list

Dubi
1st round pick
Thomas
Mcllrath
Erixon
Anisimov

Tell Howson he can take any 3 he wants from that list for Nash. That's what Nash is worth, 3 from that list an no more.

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06-24-2012, 07:58 PM
  #948
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Just annoyed I always hear the price is too high when it comes to the Yankees and now I'm hearing it w the Rangers because everyone is unavailable

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06-24-2012, 07:59 PM
  #949
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I'm not saying I would do one of them, but just making a point. If its one young impact player dubi and a pick ignoring everything else, that's not overpayment
In terms of skill probably not, unfortunately for anyone dealing with Howson he's ignoring Nash's bad contract. He needs to be treated like a rental player, Hossa is a good example go look at what he fetched at the deadline.

CBJ fans and Howson act as if Nash's contract is a plus when it clearly isn't.

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06-24-2012, 08:00 PM
  #950
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
So Kreider, Dubi, a pick and a prospect for Nash? That's seems acceptable to you? Your vastly overrating Nash.

You realize you're getting a 35 goal scorer with a terrible contract and not Wayne Gretzky, right?

No more than 3 assets for Nash. Here's my list

Dubi
1st round pick
Thomas
Mcllrath
Erixon
Anisimov

Tell Howson he can take any 3 he wants from that list for Nash. That's what Nash is worth, 3 from that list an no more.
So no Hagelin? Del zotto? So basically our scraps lol

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