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Offseason Discussion VI: Well that got out of hand (UPDATED contract chart in Post 1)

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06-24-2012, 06:31 PM
  #926
Ogrezilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I don't see where people are getting the idea that Sid is going to take a discount to get Parise? Why are people thinking that?
I don't think its Parise. I think he is taking less than he knows he could get so he doesn't cripple the team in general. Sid basically has access to a blank check with Shero's signature on it imo.

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06-24-2012, 06:36 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I don't see where people are getting the idea that Sid is going to take a discount to get Parise? Why are people thinking that?
I mean, "discount" is relative. Some people look at it and say any amount below the 20% max is a discount. The latest numbers reported is a long-term deal between $9-10M AAV.

EDIT: Ogre probably gave you a better answer than I did. Any discount wouldn't specifically be because of Parise, yeah.

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06-24-2012, 06:58 PM
  #928
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I'd pay parise about 8mil for 5-6 years.

He's well worth it, especially being with sid

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06-24-2012, 06:59 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
It wasn't full of guys like Bobby Ryan or Rick Nash. It also didn't have either of the two best players in the world at center. I would love to get Parise or Suter. I really don't expect both. It is very possible we'll get neither.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
Ugh, I don't like Kulemin either, but Gagne, Penner, Brown and Williams seem a little closer to Whitney than Parise. And that's with Anze effing Kopitar instead of whatever PHX had all season before the lucked out on project Vermette.
Woooo you are really underrating Brown here.

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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Brown, Williams, Carter, Penner.

Kunitz, Setoguchi, Neal, Kulemin.

Those are pretty comparable top 6 winger groups. If we can't land Parise, I want us bringing in two options for the top 6.
Kulimen & his 7 goals & a 40 year old Whitney don't fit with those names. Staal, Michalek>Kulimen, Whitney, Sutter. We are a worse team for sure.

I was just saying since only two teams are going to get Parise & Suter we should be using some of these young assets towards Ryan, Nash, or Yandle. If we fail at that and have to settle with a tweener like Kulimen the risk didn't pay off. Whitney's a different story because though he is a great player at 40 that could change in a hurry.

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06-24-2012, 07:06 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Woooo you are really underrating Brown here.



Kulimen & his 7 goals & a 40 year old Whitney don't fit with those names. Staal, Michalek>Kulimen, Whitney, Sutter. We are a worse team for sure.

I was just saying since only two teams are going to get Parise & Suter we should be using some of these young assets towards Ryan, Nash, or Yandle. If we fail at that and have to settle with a tweener like Kulimen the risk didn't pay off. Whitney's a different story because though he is a great player at 40 that could change in a hurry.
I would say that the moves Shero pulled off has been an indication hes going hard for both and hes expecting one but would be happy with both so it could mean only one team gets both together in a package.

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06-24-2012, 07:06 PM
  #931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Woooo you are really underrating Brown here.



Kulimen & his 7 goals & a 40 year old Whitney don't fit with those names. Staal, Michalek>Kulimen, Whitney, Sutter. We are a worse team for sure.

I was just saying since only two teams are going to get Parise & Suter we should be using some of these young assets towards Ryan, Nash, or Yandle. If we fail at that and have to settle with a tweener like Kulimen the risk didn't pay off. Whitney's a different story because though he is a great player at 40 that could change in a hurry.
We already have Yandle in Letang, so why add another small defenseman that doesn't fit a need we have? If we're adding D, we need a physical player that can clear the net, not another offensive defenseman.

As far as Nash, no thanks. I'm sure he'd do great things with Sid or Geno, but adding his contract to this team destroys our depth, esp. once Sid, Geno, and Letang get their raises.

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06-24-2012, 07:07 PM
  #932
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Not trying to sound like a ****, but what package could we possibly assemble that gets us Ryan.

If Bennett was NHL ready, then I'd say something around Bennett+Despres+ could get it done, but he's not and we don't have any other attractive NHL forward Anaheim would covet.

Let alone if they deal Ryan, a 2C is their most dire need.

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06-24-2012, 07:09 PM
  #933
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I was worried he'd go to the Flyers, but now that they moved JVR, I'm not so sure they have the pieces to acquire Ryan. They could probably make a deal around Schenn or SC, but I highly doubt they want to move them to make one strong line.

At least, that's what I'm praying for.

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06-24-2012, 07:11 PM
  #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M0NTY26 View Post
I was worried he'd go to the Flyers, but now that they moved JVR, I'm not so sure they have the pieces to acquire Ryan. They could probably make a deal around Schenn or SC, but I highly doubt they want to move them to make one strong line.

At least, that's what I'm praying for.
Their window for any significant deal closed when they traded away JVR.

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06-24-2012, 07:18 PM
  #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Woooo you are really underrating Brown here.

Kulimen & his 7 goals & a 40 year old Whitney don't fit with those names. Staal, Michalek>Kulimen, Whitney, Sutter. We are a worse team for sure.

I was just saying since only two teams are going to get Parise & Suter we should be using some of these young assets towards Ryan, Nash, or Yandle. If we fail at that and have to settle with a tweener like Kulimen the risk didn't pay off. Whitney's a different story because though he is a great player at 40 that could change in a hurry.
What do you propose we offer for either? I hope they want some combination of prospects, TK and Paul Martin.

And there are a bunch of options other than Kulemin or Whitney. Do you really think our only chance to be better than last year is to get Parise, Nash or Ryan? Keep in mind, there is the trade deadline to help fine tune. If I remember right, the Kings made pretty good use of that.

I would love one of those guys. I just don't think we will be as bad as you seem to think if we miss out on them.

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06-24-2012, 07:20 PM
  #936
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As good a regular season as he had, I really didn't like Whitney's game in the playoffs. Once things got ramped up, especially as his team continued to advance he looked every bit his age.

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06-24-2012, 07:24 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
As good a regular season as he had, I really didn't like Whitney's game in the playoffs. Once things got ramped up, especially as his team continued to advance he looked every bit his age.
Parise looked human as well in several games this postseason. Not every player is Sid/Geno where they're going to look dynamite night in night out.

Whitney with Hanzal/Vermette is alot different than Whitney with Sid. He's not going to be a handful along the boards, which is why I'd advocate adding another top 6 forward with some size, but he can help our PP tremendously, and carry the play up ice instead of forcing Sid/Geno to be our only true offensive catalysts every night.

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06-24-2012, 07:24 PM
  #938
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nevermind, found answer above. Thanks mpp9.

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06-24-2012, 07:29 PM
  #939
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Whitney, due to his age and even with his great season, is a risk, and at most, a stop gap solution that will leave us with the not enough winger problem again in a year or two.

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06-24-2012, 07:34 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
Whitney, due to his age and even with his great season, is a risk, and at most, a stop gap solution that will leave us with the not enough winger problem again in a year or two.
He's a hell of alot better option to fall back on than Sullivan. If this board can't see that then god help you.

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06-24-2012, 07:37 PM
  #941
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Question... someone figure this out for me, bc I think it's going to happen, as long as these signings I'm hoping for don't prevent it.

If we sign Parise, fill in the fourth with Asham, and pick up another number 4 on D (assuming we keep Martin), would we be able to acquire Iginla at the TDL? I really think the Flames are going to trade him so he can get a real shot at a Cup and he and Sid were great together in the olympics. I think we'd be his number one choice.

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06-24-2012, 07:39 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Woooo you are really underrating Brown here.
Brown along with Carter is the best of their wings, but it's more his physical game than his points totals and even though I am not a big fan, I understand this to be exactly what people here were looking to Kulemin for. Also sticking to my guns on him being closer to Whitney and honestly how is that even a bad thing to say about anyone?

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06-24-2012, 07:42 PM
  #943
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http://tracking.si.com/2012/06/25/pi...r-free-agency/

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Old
06-24-2012, 07:44 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by M0NTY26 View Post
Question... someone figure this out for me, bc I think it's going to happen, as long as these signings I'm hoping for don't prevent it.

If we sign Parise, fill in the fourth with Asham, and pick up another number 4 on D (assuming we keep Martin), would we be able to acquire Iginla at the TDL? I really think the Flames are going to trade him so he can get a real shot at a Cup and he and Sid were great together in the olympics. I think we'd be his number one choice.
yes we could.

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06-24-2012, 07:44 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
That was a scenario where Sid and Geno are taking discounts to help pay for him.

I don't think 7 mil is going to get him to be quite honest. Minnesota is going to throw the bank at him. 7.5 will be him taking a discount to play for us compared to what some teams are going to throw his way. If Shero is serious about being in on this he should be ready to throw 7.5-8 mil his way I think. Or else front load the hell out of a really long deal.

getting both him and Suter is very unrealistic.
Fair enough but I'd rather take care of Sid at 10 years, $100 million and be done with it and know he has no qualms whatsoever about playing here. He deserves nothing less anyways.

$8 million for Parise is probably feasible given that I'm the first person to remind everyone that a player's dollar value changes every year given the rise of the cap, so I'll buy that. That being said the dollar amount should go down the more years are tacked onto the deal, not up or stay the same.

My pitch to Parise (verbalized in a nice way of course) would be that if you want to take $8 million/year and play in your home town that's your business, but if you want to go to a good team and help them win instead, you can take a shade less which is still well within your value range. There's gotta be a more to the negotiation than "Please Zach, you would complete our team and make Sid happy, we want you to come here so badly." Facts are facts, and the facts are that Minnesota sucks all around and other than an extra $500,000-1 million and playing at home there's absolutely no reasons to go there. There's also the fact that we have to, ya know, pay the rest of this team.

As far as getting Parise AND Suter, that's akin to wasting time thinking about what life would be like if I found $100,000 on my back porch tomorrow so I don't think people should spend too much time on it. Also, it's kind of funny that we're going nuts over Parise yet I'm starting to read stuff about how Suter is actually who Shero wants haha.

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06-24-2012, 07:48 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Not trying to sound like a ****, but what package could we possibly assemble that gets us Ryan.

If Bennett was NHL ready, then I'd say something around Bennett+Despres+ could get it done, but he's not and we don't have any other attractive NHL forward Anaheim would covet.

Let alone if they deal Ryan, a 2C is their most dire need.
I've said it before...we are out of the Ryan race. The only asset we for that race just went to Carolina.

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06-24-2012, 07:48 PM
  #947
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With all of these links being posted, I don't see any solid hint but just more and more speculation from the media due to the cap clearing move by Shero. I get this feeling that we are all going to be severely disappointed if we don't get ZP or RS. I really hope it doesn't end up being a Jagr move again but its not out of the question that both or one of them go to Philly or the Rags. Maybe even the Devils if they extend Parise and sign Suter?

I don't know whats going to happen but in the end, I hope I am not disappointed which I will be if we do not get ZP. I'd love to have Suter but I just think we need Parise more especially with the defensive prospects that we have, Suter will just become another reason for a logjam at D.

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06-24-2012, 07:49 PM
  #948
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Originally Posted by pensfansince88 View Post
Story quotes Trib.

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06-24-2012, 07:51 PM
  #949
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Originally Posted by SinfulCobraZ View Post
With all of these links being posted, I don't see any solid hint but just more and more speculation from the media due to the cap clearing move by Shero. I get this feeling that we are all going to be severely disappointed if we don't get ZP or RS. I really hope it doesn't end up being a Jagr move again but its not out of the question that both or one of them go to Philly or the Rags. Maybe even the Devils if they extend Parise and sign Suter?

I don't know whats going to happen but in the end, I hope I am not disappointed which I will be if we do not get ZP. I'd love to have Suter but I just think we need Parise more especially with the defensive prospects that we have, Suter will just become another reason for a logjam at D.
I would wager that people in Detroit are talking about getting Suter the way we're talking about getting Parise. Lidstrom's gone, they need a new leader and go to guy on D, the money is freed up. Makes perfect sense to me.

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06-24-2012, 07:51 PM
  #950
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Douglas Murray ($2.5 mil)

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2nd Rounder
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